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Windows 7: Forced full backups after a successful restore


27 May 2012   #11

Windows 7 Home Premium x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by mjf View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by amrobx View Post
Every single time I have to restore my installation for whatever reason, the backup/restore utility always creates a new, full data files/image backup.
Firstly when using Windows Backup and Restore I think it is wise to separate the
1) file/folder backup process and
2) the image process

They are totally different and do not need to be performed simultaneously. In your backup schedule select "Let me choose" and untick the create a system image box. This way only file/folder backups will be made. When you want an image use the separate "Create a system image" button on the left of the Backup and restore screen.

When you reimage you also replace the file/folder contents in the image. This may be different from your latest file/folder backup set. If the image is older you may want to restore file/folder user files after the reimage. In any event Windows file/folder backup creates a new backup set as a consistent starting point after the reimage. A bit crude I suppose.
I may just do this, even though I like it on a schedule. I make manual backups, too, but only when I'm trying new programs or changing major settings. The behavior is cruder than I would prefer, honestly, but it at least works for me and I don't have to install anything extra.

My System SpecsSystem Spec
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27 May 2012   #12

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by amrobx View Post
As far as doing them separately, the imaging isn't the only problem, since the data file backup also makes another full backup. That is what makes the whole thing so large and it is only after a restore that this happens.
That's odd, that it does another backup. Is it possible you missed some setting
in the process, perhaps in the scheduling?
It never did that to me upon restoring, but I only cold restores using the system recovery disk. System images only.
Just doesn't make sense that it would do another backup like that without it being requested in some manner.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
27 May 2012   #13

Windows 7 Home Premium x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Victor S View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by amrobx View Post
As far as doing them separately, the imaging isn't the only problem, since the data file backup also makes another full backup. That is what makes the whole thing so large and it is only after a restore that this happens.
That's odd, that it does another backup. Is it possible you missed some setting
in the process, perhaps in the scheduling?
It never did that to me upon restoring, but I only cold restores using the system recovery disk. System images only.
Just doesn't make sense that it would do another backup like that without it being requested in some manner.
Interesting. I'll try it with the recovery disk instead. That may make a difference somehow. Worst case scenario is that I have to do a full backup again, but I've gotten used to it by now.

I don't think I missed anything in the scheduling and setup process. I chose my backup location, then I customized what I wanted to back up (which was music, documents, photos, and the appdata folder), and I included a system image. I just used the default weekly schedule, as it doesn't matter which day for me. I don't know of any more bases to cover as far as setup goes.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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28 May 2012   #14

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by amrobx View Post
Interesting. I'll try it with the recovery disk instead. That may make a difference somehow. Worst case scenario is that I have to do a full backup again, but I've gotten used to it by now.

I don't think I missed anything in the scheduling and setup process. I chose my backup location, then I customized what I wanted to back up (which was music, documents, photos, and the appdata folder), and I included a system image. I just used the default weekly schedule, as it doesn't matter which day for me. I don't know of any more bases to cover as far as setup goes.
This may sound silly, and be totally wrong, but I'll take a flyer on it.
One thing that "bothered" me (not much) was doing a Win 7 restore, and basically the Win 7 internal logic not recognizing that very backup. Because it was restored to before the backup was actually taken. Remembering I do cold images.
But that must also be true using "warm" restores. I haven't done a restore from within Win 7, so can't say how that works. But I imagine it shuts down the Win 7 system, and actually restores a mirror image of the image taken.
If you have the backup scheduled as "Weekly" as opposed to say Sunday, 7PM, what happens?
Here's a WASG. You restore today, 20120527. The image was done 20120401, and is marked with that date to Win 7 in various places. The image doesn't know the future, but Win 7 has current date.
It compares current date of 20120527 to a the fixed date of 20120401, as part of the scheduling routine check.
It's more than a week, so it starts a backup.
Just a WASG.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 May 2012   #15

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 7601 Multiprocessor Free Service Pack 1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by amrobx View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by kado897 View Post
In normal circumstances Windows backup uses it's own nearly indecipherable rules to determine whether this should be full or incremental. This shortcut forces an incremental, provided of course that there is already a full backup to be the base.
I am beginning to believe the indecipherable part. There was a preexisting full file backup prior to the image restore, but even with the shortcut mentioned above, it still made another full file backup.
Now that I think back one of the reasons I stopped using Windows backup for Files and Folders was exactly what you described. Full backups after an image restore. It sorted itself out eventually but in the meantime I went initially to SyncToy and more recently to FreeFileSync for my data backups. The reason I moved to FreeFileSync from SyncToy is that it supports versioning.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 May 2012   #16
mjf

Windows 7x64 Home Premium SP1
 
 

I thought I'd suggested the reason for a full file/folder backup after a reimage.
I believe this will always happen because the file/folder structure after the reimage of say an older image may be quite different from your most recent file/folder backup set.
Now you can use the file/folders from the reimage or restore your most recent backup set.
Unless everything is synchronized it's completely sensible to make another file/folder backup set after you make the decision to keep the reimage file/folders or replace them with another backup set.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 May 2012   #17

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 7601 Multiprocessor Free Service Pack 1
 
 

The problem is that it kept doing full backups for some time.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 May 2012   #18
mjf

Windows 7x64 Home Premium SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by kado897 View Post
The problem is that it kept doing full backups for some time.
This hasn't been my experience. Admittedly, Windows will decide at some stage (algorithm unknown) to make a new backup set regardless.

I did a check on this earlier on. A full backup set was made after the reimage. The next was an incremental.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 May 2012   #19

Windows 7 Home Premium x64
 
 

Looks like I'll have to live with it. It's annoying, but at least I'll have my files on hand. I may purchase the personal version of Macrium Reflect eventually, since it does both imaging and data file backups, but I will wait for a coupon or promo before I do it.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Jun 2012   #20

Windows 7 Home Premium x64
 
 

Okay, so I came up with a redundant approach using the Macrium Reflect WindowsPE disc and Cobian backup (app only). The latter works well to backup my game saves, since it supports VSS--not many other utilities allow me to backup appdata files. I like that the extra software install is very minimal, even if I have to manually boot to the disc. At the very least, it is extra protection in case the finicky MS backup and restore doesn't work like I'd want it to (though it has worked flawlessly or me since 10/09).
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 Forced full backups after a successful restore




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