Why has Firefox become so bad?

SledgeDG · 12 Nov 2010

If I drive a car without ever doing basic maintenance like say changing oil and filters I can't possibly blame BMW or Dodge for building such unreliable cars.
As for your notions about chrome being wrongfully accused: Do you really think Google put a unique ID in each of their browsers because they were bored....or even that this has been done with the users best interest in mind?

Didn't think so.
Excuse me, I call it as I see it.
I'm just very pragmatic: If somebody enters a bank with a ski mask over their head I don't automatically assume they're having a winter social I didn't know about.

-DG

Petey7 · 12 Nov 2010

How about the fact that the OP has confirmed that their HDD is 0% fragmented, and that they use now toolbars, plugins or extensions but everyone keeps saying that it is the users fault because they use to many plugins and don't defrag their HDD or do other simple maintenance.

Also, you're reaching a lot on what you say about Chrome. Let me guess. MS makes a unique product ID on every computer with Windows to track everything you do one them.

pparks1 · 12 Nov 2010

Well, the original poster is making a statement that Firefox has gotten bad and that seems to insinuate it must be that same way for everybody using it.

This is why some of us firefox users and responding back...because we aren't seeing or experiencing the same problems as the OP. Therefore, there must be something different about our setups.

zigzag3143 · 12 Nov 2010

madtownidiot said:

yowanvista said:

Addons, Toolbars, AVs can slow FF

Worst thing you can do to a browser if you want it to be fast is add extensions, especially if it looks like this
Attachment 113089
or worse
Attachment 113091

Hey how did you get a picture of my firefox {grin}

madtownidiot · 12 Nov 2010

I wonder if anyone will ever take credit for that screenshot of IE6

MWRed · 12 Nov 2010

In my opinoin(and yes, it's just an opinion) I wouldn't say that anyone means bad as in "not good"
Why did I move away from FF? I loved FF years ago, it was great, flawless and fast. In my experience, it's not that FF has gotten bad really. It's just that I compare how FF3+ runs compared to the previous versions that I loved. I liked FF for the reason of speed, which, compared to what it used to be, simply isn't the same. I rarely ever used any extentions aside from the more important 2 or 3.

I have never actually had a real "problem" with FF3+ , it's just that it isn't the same. I still have FF3 as a backup since I use Opera as my main, but after messing with IE8 and now the 9 beta, I see no advantage of FF over IE at all, they're both comparably slow-ER, not necessarily slow.

On another note.....the plan to have extentions in Opera now kinda pisses me off. I always liked this browser because it was simple and fast.. I just worry that it's going to be another FF. Who knows, maybe i'll just go to IE9 when it finally arrives.

I did like FF4 beta a lo for the time I used it though.

EDIT: Also, don't say a word about switching to Chrome. Sick of google, don't trust Chrome, whether what is said is true or not. I won't ever touch it.

Ravanx · 13 Nov 2010

Tepid said:

Yeah, I'm not buying it either. I use FF as well without issue.

I am seeing a Chrome commercial here.

BTW, Google's real ethics are still in huge question.

Oh? Let's see. I shall quote myself from my first post.

Ravanx said:

Why has Firefox become so bad?

It's becoming more and more bloated and less like what it was intended to be (fast and functional) when it was first released to compete with IE.

It takes up insane amounts of ram memory. It also crashes so easily whenever the flash plugin crashes.

Compare it to another browser like Chrome and the consumption and stability differences are so vast, even though Chrome was created after Firefox.. Chrome consumes 1/5 as much memory, doesn't lag at all even when many tabs are open and doesn't crash at all even if its flash plugin crashes.

I hate to use Chrome over Firefox but it's proving to be superior to Firefox in the most important areas of memory consumption, lag speed and stability. Chrome has major problems ensuring that downloads do not become corrupted, which is a nail to its heart.

Firefox, please take care of the important core issues before fiddling around with issues concerning user-created plugin...

Moving on...

fseal said:

The first pic is how I see some people actually running FF.

The second was actually a joke pic by someone trying to see how many toolbars they could get installed at once. :)

madtownidiot said:

Unless a person wants to tell someone, it is nobody else's business who they talk to, what they search for, what they read, what videos they watch, where they live, what they buy, where they're planning to go on vacation, what religion they have, their mother's maiden name, what political views they have ..I could go on ad infinitum.. If you have no privacy, you have no security. Therefore chrome has no security...

True. However, Chrome is the only stop-gap solution, which is fast, that I know of and have at the moment... until Firefox gets its frickin act back together. I hope Firefox does so soon.

madtownidiot said:

but besides that fact.. chrome has been the #3 reason my xp-and-vista-using customers ended up with rouge AVs, trojans, spyware and other infestations. Malware in P2P downloads and IE were #1 and #2 respectively.

It's not chrome. It's the thing in between the keyboard and the chair. The thing within everyone of us.
Be thankful for that "thing" because it brings you customers.

madtownidiot said:

Until very recently (the past 15 days to be exact) Google has done absolutely nothing to protect people from malicious sites.

And Google doesn't have to. It's not a charity or your mom or dad. People have to learn to protect themselves or be taken advantage of for taking the easy way out and not bothering to learn.

And Chrome didn't force it upon those users or kill off all the other alternatives by assassination or something. People CHOSE to use Chrome.

If you admired an actress, would you blame the actress for turning your date offer down? You chose to admire her and she didn't kill off all the other women on the planet.

madtownidiot said:

And besides that, benchmarks don't always reflect real world performance. It wouldn't matter if a browser could render a 50MB java app in 3 milliseconds if it crashes at least once every time you use it.

I don't care about milliseconds. I can't tell the difference between 2 milliseconds and 1 millisecond by counting. I don't care.

I only know that Chrome has never hanged on me YET... for the one month duration that I switched to it.

More importantly, Chrome has never crashed on me yet. I have never had to reopen Chrome because it stopped working and I had no other way of continuing to use Chrome other than to close it and then reopen it.

Though the flash plugin has crashed several times on Chrome, it doesn't cause Chrome to lag or hang while it crashed. That's what I care about.

Prof Kerfuffle said:

Ravanx said:

I hate to use Chrome over Firefox but it's proving to be superior to Firefox in the most important areas of memory consumption, lag speed and stability. Chrome has major problems ensuring that downloads do not become corrupted, which is a nail to its heart.

No download issues for me, downloaded burnout paradise demo with out any issues, I swapped to chrome a few months back (great browser) IE 9 is better in my opinion than FF 3.6/4 beta

I noticed the Chrome's download issues when I did CRC checks.

One corrupted download is enough reason to distrust it's download capabilities because I've never had corrupted downloads when using Firefox to download small files of 100MB or less.

Ravanx · 13 Nov 2010

Petey7 said:

Why do have the people on this thread assume the user is to blame for his/her problem with firefox. You will find that a lot of people don't like firefox, which is why chrome has become as popular as it has in such a short time. A lot of people have problems with firefox running slowly or crashing regularly, even after deleting cookies, browsing data, and what have you. If you don't have problems, good for you, but don't assume everyone that does run into a problem is to blame, just like we don't like people blaming their problems on Bill Gates or Win7.

BTW can I see some secondary source stating that all your browsing data gets sent to google? I see people saying it, but no evidence for it. And chromes speed and reliability has a lot to do with the fact that it opens a new process for all tabs and plug-ins.

Petey7 said:

How about the fact that the OP has confirmed that their HDD is 0% fragmented, and that they use now toolbars, plugins or extensions but everyone keeps saying that it is the users fault because they use to many plugins and don't defrag their HDD or do other simple maintenance.

Also, you're reaching a lot on what you say about Chrome. Let me guess. MS makes a unique product ID on every computer with Windows to track everything you do one them.

Thanks for the reasonable and rational posts and satire. It was needed to ease the air.
I see that another person, whose judgement has a clear perspective is not clouded any hint of fanboyism. Note that I'm not insinuating that anyone who defends Firefox is a Firefox fanboy. Only those who fervently defend it without taking a step back to look at the whole picture are.

SledgeDG said:

If I drive a car without ever doing basic maintenance like say changing oil and filters I can't possibly blame BMW or Dodge for building such unreliable cars.
As for your notions about chrome being wrongfully accused: Do you really think Google put a unique ID in each of their browsers because they were bored....or even that this has been done with the users best interest in mind?

Didn't think so.
Excuse me, I call it as I see it.
I'm just very pragmatic: If somebody enters a bank with a ski mask over their head I don't automatically assume they're having a winter social I didn't know about.

-DG

The car starts to degrade in performance within 1 month of buying it. Should I blame BMW or Dodge?
Hell Yes I should.

The reasonable expectation would be that it should stay in tip top condition for at least a year because all my other cars did so, including the previous car I bought from them.

Firefox starts lagging within a day... while it didn't use to.

I have a minimal level of standards set already, thanks to Firefox. (see rising expectations & relative deprivation) To add fuel to the fire, another browser like Chrome doesn't lag like Firefox.

I know firefox is free and I have no right to complain. But hey, I'm not giving nonconstructive complains like "F** this sucks"; I'm giving proper feedback about the causes of the problem.

Now, let's alter the car scenario a bit to tailor it to my case.

I'm smart enough to only use clean petrol, which doesn't damage my filters.
(think programs and AV software)

I also make sure I don't drive on bumpy lousy roads. Neither do I drift.
(think malicious websites, overclocking and other abuses of the PC)

I'm also smart enough to avoid parking my expensive car out on the road at night so that thieves won't get a chance to mess around with my car.
(think clicking on malicious links that have a stupid/unbelieveable promise)

As such, I only do a minimal amount of maintenance. It can't be my fault that the car starts to seriously degrade in performance within 1 month of buying it right?

pparks1 said:

Well, the original poster is making a statement that Firefox has gotten bad and that seems to insinuate it must be that same way for everybody using it.

This is why some of us firefox users and responding back...because we aren't seeing or experiencing the same problems as the OP. Therefore, there must be something different about our setups.

This is one of the best comments from the Firefox supporters and defenders.
I'm on the fence.

pparks1 said:

Well, the original poster is making a statement that Firefox has gotten bad and that seems to insinuate it must be that same way for everybody using it.

No I didn't insinuate it must be that same way for everybody using it. I didn't say anything along the lines of "everybody is having problems with firefox".
I'm sure that you can tell that the opinions were all mine. Mine!

Do I need to add a "for me" at the end of every sentence to make that crystal clear?
Didn't think so.

pparks1 said:

because we aren't seeing or experiencing the same problems as the OP. Therefore, there must be something different about our setups.

That might be the case. But what would it be?
None of you have mentioned anything about your setups.

MWRed said:

In my opinoin(and yes, it's just an opinion) I wouldn't say that anyone means bad as in "not good"
Why did I move away from FF? I loved FF years ago, it was great, flawless and fast. In my experience, it's not that FF has gotten bad really. It's just that I compare how FF3+ runs compared to the previous versions that I loved. I liked FF for the reason of speed, which, compared to what it used to be, simply isn't the same. I rarely ever used any extentions aside from the more important 2 or 3.

I have never actually had a real "problem" with FF3+ , it's just that it isn't the same. I still have FF3 as a backup since I use Opera as my main, but after messing with IE8 and now the 9 beta, I see no advantage of FF over IE at all, they're both comparably slow-ER, not necessarily slow.

On another note.....the plan to have extentions in Opera now kinda pisses me off. I always liked this browser because it was simple and fast.. I just worry that it's going to be another FF. Who knows, maybe i'll just go to IE9 when it finally arrives.

I did like FF4 beta a lo for the time I used it though.

True... My sentiments though I didn't think of that when I was posting this.

MWRed said:

EDIT: Also, don't say a word about switching to Chrome. Sick of google, don't trust Chrome, whether what is said is true or not. I won't ever touch it.

Chrome is the only stop-gap solution, which is fast, that I know of and have at the moment... until Firefox gets its frickin act back together. I hope Firefox does so soon.

smarteyeball · 13 Nov 2010

Tepid said:

BTW, Google's real ethics are still in huge question.

There's no question - they have none.

In all honesty - who cares? There are plenty of options to choose from and when a once favourite browser loses it's appeal, switch to another. If a person doesn't like that, they can switch back later or try yet another one.

They're all as equally good/bad as each other in their own way.

SledgeDG · 13 Nov 2010

Just because it fit's the topic and some users might not know that:
If you really want to run Chrome but would like to limit Google's Data mining a little, there are several solutions

#1 SWare IRON (based on Chromium minus the automatic data transmission to google Servers)
Install or portable version here: SRWare Iron - The Browser of the Future
downside: you'll be limited to their update cycles and it's based on Chromium (if that's a downside at all)

#2 a portable Version of Chrome from a german board which a working Updater (as a separat program)
the language can easily be switched and the Updater allows to switch between the latest Chrome version, the latest BETA, the latest DEV version and the latest Chromium

http://stadt-bremerhaven.de/download-manager.php?id=250

-DG