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Windows 7: WLM Database clone on new machine initially works fine - then vanishes

02 Jan 2014   #1
Samwsn

W7
 
 
WLM Database clone on new machine initially works fine - then vanishes

Hi all - running WLM 2012 on my Windows 8 Netbook using 10 accounts - all perfect.

Needed a clone on my Windows 7 Desktop machine with exact Database Navigation and Folder Tree for same 10 accounts as a final message destination, setting my Netbook to "Leave messages on server" for mobile usage.

So Installed WLM 2012 on Desktop; fine. Copied cloned Database from Netbook over to AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows Live Mail.

Worked immediately, like a charm, all folders and messages in exact same folder tree and accounts (passwords to input manually) one 100% OK. Hurray!

However after 4-5 shut down/start-ups of WLM the entire folder tree collapsed into a basic tree consisting of just basic INBOX/DRAFT/SENT/Unwanted Mail/Deleted for each account, showing no messages, although all cloned data was still resident on disc in its correct above location.

No way to retrieve nor show any messages... nor the intended navigational structure - vanished (although data was in its original location)

Uninstalled WLM, delete clone Database, did the whole operation over again and hey presto, everything back OK.

After 4-6 shutdowns/startups of WLM 2012 the navigation Folder Tree collapsed back into 10 basic 5-line account blocks, not showing any messages, although all of them still reside in AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows Live Mail.

What is this? How can initially everything run fine as intended and then... vapourise?

Driving me mad as I did the exercise 6 times now.

Also any reboot makes the initially nicely working folder tree AND messages visually disappear.

Anyone a clue why initially everything works as intended -- and then deconstructs and disappears?

Driving me bonkers - as I need this structure, it is there and then after 5-6 uses vanishes...

Looking forward to your suggestions -

Sam / The Netherlands


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
03 Jan 2014   #2
Roderunner

Win7 H.Prem. 32bit+SP1
 
 

Hi Sam, welcome to Seven Forums.
It could be down to how your mail accounts are set-up.
I sign-in to WLM 2012 on both my pc's with the same Microsoft account but only use my Gmail account. If I read a message on my Desktop it will not be available on my Laptop as Gmail archives messages when accessed by POP.
Do you use POP or IMAP ???
My System SpecsSystem Spec
03 Jan 2014   #3
Samwsn

W7
 
 

1) I do use POP. I may change over to IMAP as it's beneficial re. syncing. However it incorporates a risk of one party deleting a message and the other machines following.

One my mobile machine (Netbook) I set "leave messages on server" and the desktop is the endstation and archive for all; so that's where the cloned navigational folder tree comes in handy.

I fail to understand why this structure first works and then collapses for no clear reason.
Do you?

2) Yes GMAIL has this property of archiving READ POP messages, even when | leave messages on server" is set.

Regards,
Sam
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

03 Jan 2014   #4
Slartybart

x64 (6.3.9600) Win8.1 Pro & soon dual boot x64 (6.1.7601) Win7_SP1 HomePrem
 
 

I believe that WEMail is recreating the accounts.


Try this sequnce
  1. Install a 'fresh' WEMail on Win7 machine - do not configure anything
  2. create a folder in your downloads folder - name it zzzOeImp
  3. for all 10 accounts, copy the .oeaccount file from your Win8 machine to the Downloads\zzzOeImp folder
    On the Win8 machine, navigate to each account using Windows Explorer, the format of the oeaccount file is:
    account{1409CCC5-9F8C-414E-AFB0-DF8F2BFB7C91}.oeaccount
  4. After you have all 10 oeaccount files in the Downloads\zzzOeImp folder you created above
    1. Make sure you close WEMail
    2. Copy zzzOeImp form Downloads to your User's
      Appdata\Local\Microsoft\Windows Live Mail folder
  5. Copy the Windows Live folder from your Win8 machine to your WEMail 'clone' on the Win7
    machine
    AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows Live
    (different from Windows Live Mail)
At this point you've copied the account information files into a folder
copied that folder into the Windows Live Mail folder
copied the Windows Live (different from Windows Live Mail) folder from Win8 machine to teh Win7 machine

When you launch WEMail (WLM), it will create the accounts using information in the oeaccount files
There is no mail yet, just a skeleton.

From here, you have two choices


make sure that leave a copy on the server is set for all accounts
  • If the mail is still on the server, you can just receive it to the Win7 desktop
    you will have to provide the password for each account the first time
  • If the mail is NOT on the server
    • Close WEMail
    • Copy Windows Live Mail from the Win8 machine to your downloads folder on the Win7 machine
      Set your userid as the owner of that folder and subfolders
      give your user full access to that folder and subfolders
    • Now copy ONLY the folders in each account that have msgs to, do not do a wholesale copy of the Windows Live Mail folder, just the subfolders under each account folder that has .eml files
      Appdata\Local\Microsoft\Windows Live Mail\AccountName\(Inbox, Drafts, Sent Items....). Where AccountName is how your Mail server account is defined (ie AOL is what I named my AOL account) Drafts and Sent Items are the most likely to contain msgs, but you should look in each just to be sure.
      If you created special folders in an account for filtering mail purposes, you will have to
      create them INSIDE WEMail and then move the msgs.
      WEMail is finicky - folders MUST be created when in WEMail. Trying to create the folders in Windows Explorer doesn't seem to acheive the desired result.
    • Hold off on Storage folders for the moment
      Storage folders are similar, but there might be a shortcut.
So this doesn't drive you over the edge, go ahead and create the skeleton and then migrate one account. If the account doesn't lose the msgs after a number of launches, you can do the other 9 and Storage (if applicable)
My System SpecsSystem Spec
03 Jan 2014   #5
Roderunner

Win7 H.Prem. 32bit+SP1
 
 

Hi Sam, first of all, I prefer using POP in WLM. As I don't have anything else I need to access my mail on a i.e. smart phone, so I have IMAP disabled in Gmail and have never used it, although I tried it once and didn't like it.
-
I suggest waiting a few days till the more knowledgable WLM members return from the festive break.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
03 Jan 2014   #6
Samwsn

W7
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Slartybart View Post
I believe that WEMail is recreating the accounts.

***********
[/LIST]So this doesn't drive you over the edge, go ahead and create the skeleton and then migrate one account. If the account doesn't lose the msgs after a number of launches, you can do the other 9 and Storage (if applicable)

Hi SlartyBart - that is quite some reply - thank you fro your effort to start with

Second -I have a gut feeling you are right and WLM is not allowing me to be smarter than its designers.

Now, to avoid any confusion - why are you calling it WEM?

I am using Windows Live Mail 2012 - WLM - from the infamous Windows Essentials family.

Before diving deeper - are we in the same tub here?
Pls confrim

Sam
My System SpecsSystem Spec
03 Jan 2014   #7
Slartybart

x64 (6.3.9600) Win8.1 Pro & soon dual boot x64 (6.1.7601) Win7_SP1 HomePrem
 
 

I'm just geeky.
Windows Essentials: Other Programs - Microsoft Windows

Technically we're both running Windows Essential Mail as the above link defines it.

Sam, you've answered your own question
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Samwsn View Post
..... Now, to avoid any confusion - why are you calling it WEM?

I am using Windows Live Mail 2012 - WLM - from the infamous Windows Essentials family.
Besides that WEMail sounds like more fun Weeeee Mail!




One thing I should have noted: the Windows Live folder has your contacts in it. Be sure you copy the folder from Appdata\Local\Microsoft -NOT- Appdata\Local

Take your time, maybe do one mail account at a time until you're comfortable with the steps
Let WEMail create the account from the oeaccount file
ensure "Leave copy on Server" is set for that mail account
try to send and receive mail
If the mail was still on the server, you won't have to copy the msgs from the Win8 machine

If you created special folders in WEMail, you have to recreate them in WEMail on the Win7 machine. You cannot use Windows Explorer to create the additonal mail account folders - the creation must be inside WEMail.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Jan 2014   #8
Samwsn

W7
 
 

WeeeMail it is then! Windows marketing and Live... Outlook... Outlook Express... Essentials... Defender -- must have run out of words and creativity, just to confuse us.

Looking at your approach I can see some differences that may just be the success factor.
I will create a simple diagram later to avoid me taking my old route here.

W8
I did not at any time take into account the W8 LIve folder. It contains subfolders like Bici, Contacts\Default, Installer\Catalog, Cache\Currency\Weather, SqmApi, Video Profiles.

The Contacts folder has different content compared to my "other" contacts folder, which resides in USER\Contacts (so NOT under AppData\Local etc.) It does however contain a contacts list - not so on W7, where the contacts seem to be buried in .edb.

I did delete a few contacts in the USER\Contacts folder that did not change the Windows Live\Contacts content; apparently the two Contacts folder on W8 do not sync; is that true?

W7
Holds a Windows Live folder as well, different content though compared to the one on W8. Since I never knowingly created it, WEM must have done that at some time OR it was present at the time of W7 fresh install 3 months ago on this machine.

The Contacts subfolder does NOT contain a Contact list as in W8's Windows Live\Contacts.

Iin addition to the items in the W8 Windows Live folder the W7 folder contains 4 separate DBStores and logfiles.

The 4 DBStores do contain [contacts.edb] of all exactly 2.064 kB as well mas 3 and 4 LogFiles the like of [edb.log], [edbres00001.jrs] and a few others.

So I gather from this the Contact structure for WEM on W8 and W7 is different - strange. Is that true?

Before I proceed, should I not isolate that whole Windows Live by renaming it to Windows Live.OFF?

EDIT

I drilled down deeper on the W8 Windows Live folder and yes, it holds the 15.4 and 15.5 DBStore folders as well.

Main difference is the Windows Live Contacts folder root on W8 holds a contscts list whereas on W7 NOT yet perhaps. I can see from your approach you copying this folder from W8 to W7 may solve this aberration. Could that be the culprit for my WEM's strange behaviour after 4-5 launches?

I will try to include some pics after I finish this text for clarification

Regards,

Sam
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Jan 2014   #9
Slartybart

x64 (6.3.9600) Win8.1 Pro & soon dual boot x64 (6.1.7601) Win7_SP1 HomePrem
 
 

Yep Marketing "Where the real money from a movie is made - Spaceballs"
Ms is trying to move away from the "Live" brand - but Development still names thing OE and Live.
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Samwsn View Post
WeeeMail it is then! Windows marketing and Live... Outlook... Outlook Express... Essentials... Defender -- must have run out of words and creativity, just to confuse us.

Looking at your approach I can see some differences that may just be the success factor.
I will create a simple diagram later to avoid me taking my old route here.

Good you found the correct Windows Live folder. The other folder one level up is teh "control" folder for alll things "Essential" - when you add or repair stuff to the 'suite'.

\User\Contacts is a trowback to Vista Winmail (possibly a throwfwd to W8 MailApp - don't know much about W8) - forget about that for now. It is the place where you can import contacts if you have that contact structure (ie Vista Winmail migration)
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Samwsn View Post
W8
I did not at any time take into account the W8 LIve folder. It contains subfolders like Bici, Contacts\Default, Installer\Catalog, Cache\Currency\Weather, SqmApi, Video Profiles.

The Contacts folder has different content compared to my "other" contacts folder, which resides in USER\Contacts (so NOT under AppData\Local etc.) It does however contain a contacts list - not so on W7, where the contacts seem to be buried in .edb.

I did delete a few contacts in the USER\Contacts folder that did not change the Windows Live\Contacts content; apparently the two Contacts folder on W8 do not sync; is that true?

Ok, not sure I'm following. But WE adds to this confusion with all the "Live" folders it creates.


The 2 folders you want are in D:\UserName\AppData\Local\Microsoft
  • Windows Live (Bici, Contacts, Installer, SqmApi)
  • Windows Live Mail (Mail accounts, Backup, Calendars, edb.chk, edb.log, edb00023.log, edbres00001.jrs, edbres00002.jrs, Mail.MSMessageStore, Mail.pat, oeconfig.xml,
    Proof, RssFeeds.xml, Sentinel, sqmnoopt00.sqm, Storage Folders, WindowsLiveMail.log, Your Feeds
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Samwsn View Post
W7
Holds a Windows Live folder as well, different content though compared to the one on W8. Since I never knowingly created it, WEM must have done that at some time OR it was present at the time of W7 fresh install 3 months ago on this machine.

The Contacts subfolder does NOT contain a Contact list as in W8's Windows Live\Contacts.

Now here's where things get screwy. WEM 2009, 2011, 2012 all have slightly different folder structures. Your contacts sb in in the 15.5 folder (WEM 2012). Give me some time to read your post again to try and figure out W8 contacts - the difference is most likely due to MS moving to Mail App, but I'm not certain.

You can focus of the msgs and work on contacts afterwards.

Edit: Sure, rename the two folders mentioned above. On 2nd thought ... There shouldn't be any useful information in the Win7 folders - is that correct? If yes, rename (or delete - I rename for caution) the two folders BEFORE a fresh WEMail install on Win7. You want to start with a pristine WEMail environment.
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Samwsn View Post
Iin addition to the items in the W8 Windows Live folder the W7 folder contains 4 separate DBStores and logfiles.

The 4 DBStores do contain [contacts.edb] of all exactly 2.064 kB as well mas 3 and 4 LogFiles the like of [edb.log], [edbres00001.jrs] and a few others.

So I gather from this the Contact structure for WEM on W8 and W7 is different - strange. Is that true?

Before I proceed, should I not isolate that whole Windows Live by renaming it to Windows Live.OFF?

Thanks, you are doing great. It's always nice to work with folks who read, think, ask, tell, do.
Not sure why W7 WEM punted. My thinking was that the old/new structures confused WEM - that why I suggested letting WEM build new Mail Accounts using the oeaccount files. Then move the eMail manually.

If you navigate to the copy of the Win8 Windows Live Mail and search for type:eml you'll find all the msgs. Then if you sort the search by folder path (might have to change the columns) you can easily associate msgs to mail accounts.

Launch Win7 WEM
Selectively (by mail account folder) drag the msgs from Wndows Explorer to the corresponding Win7 WEM mail account folder.

Remember any non-standard WEM folder has to be recreated inside WEM. So an AOL\family folder is not standard. It will be easier to describe when you post the promised pictures I'm probably adding more on the side of caution than is necessary.

Bill
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Samwsn View Post
EDIT
I drilled down deeper on the W8 Windows Live folder and yes, it holds the 15.4 and 15.5 DBStore folders as well.

Main difference is the Windows Live Contacts folder root on W8 holds a contscts list whereas on W7 NOT yet perhaps. I can see from your approach you copying this folder from W8 to W7 may solve this aberration. Could that be the culprit for my WEM's strange behaviour after 4-5 launches?

I will try to include some pics after I finish this text for clarification

Regards,

Sam
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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