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Windows 7: WLM 2012 Started Crashing when Sending Emails

10 Oct 2014   #31
nikki605

Windows 7 Pro x64
 
 

This is what the Sent folder looks like after the crash. After WLM automatically restarted, I was able to forward 4 other spam messages with no problem.




Attached Thumbnails
WLM 2012 Started Crashing when Sending Emails-image1.jpg  
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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10 Oct 2014   #32
nikki605

Windows 7 Pro x64
 
 

There also seems to be a domino effect of problems. Filters USA is a legit company I do business with. A message from them this morning ended up in the WLM Junk folder but I get an error when I try to open it. I was going to mark it as not junk and add their domain to the safe senders list, but I can't even look at the message properties to do that. Grrr

I compacted the WLM database, I did a repair of Windows Essential 2012 from Control Panel and finally a reboot of the PC, trying to open that Filters USA email in between each step without success.


Attached Thumbnails
WLM 2012 Started Crashing when Sending Emails-image2.jpg  
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Oct 2014   #33
Slartybart

x64 (6.3.9600) Win8.1 Pro & soon dual boot x64 (6.1.7601) Win7_SP1 HomePrem
 
 

Thanks - I'll look at the bad msg - both the original and the forwarded
I'll post what I find. Hang in there.

I'm not sure why the Filters USA mail ended up in the junk folder.

Let me look at the first msg, then I might be able to help with Filters USA

Do me a favor and edit the post with the spam msg and delete the code boxes. The event viewer boxes can stay.
:arrow: The spam address is shown and someone might accidentally click on the link.
I did while I was trying to copy the msg for analysis - my mouse slipped while I was grabbing the text
No harm, no foul I quickly closed the window that opened.

+edit
I just noticed the special characters in the display name/addresses of msgs in your junk folder. Do any regular msgs show up with special characters in the display name?

Have I already asked you to run a few malware scanners? I'll look back through the thread, but you might know right off the bat - thanks.
-edit

Bill
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My System SpecsSystem Spec
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10 Oct 2014   #34
nikki605

Windows 7 Pro x64
 
 

Code boxes removed.

Quote:
I just noticed the special characters in the display name/addresses of msgs in your junk folder. Do any regular msgs show up with special characters in the display name?
No. That's part of what makes them spam messages - ?ISO-8859

I've been unable to block them by creating any kind of filter. Here is some of what I've Googled over the past year or so:

Spammers are using ISO encoding, in Subject and From, to evade spam filters | Wiz's Computer and Website Security Blog

ISO-8859-x encoded subject lines - Spam Filter ISP Forums

Google ?ISO-8859 spam email yourself and see what results you get. Do some reading and you'll find it's not an uncommon problem.

Quote:
Have I already asked you to run a few malware scanners? I'll look back through the thread, but you might know right off the bat - thanks.
You didn't ask about malware scanners, but I have used the free on-demand versions (so they don't conflict with Norton) of SAS & MBAM for years. I ran full scans with both this past weekend - neither picked up any problems.

This is a new desktop system I just bought it in July to replace my wife's old WinXP system. On that old system, I ran the only older version of WLM that was compatible with WinXP - Windows Essentials 2009. I was getting these spam messages on that old system and WLM 2009 never crashed.

If it turns out that a message formatted in a certain way can cause WLM 2012 to crash, then MS has taken a giant step backwards.

+EDIT

I even posted this spam email problem over on DSL Reports back in May. That was before I had this current Win7 PC. On the old WinXP PC running WLM 2009, I was forwarding these spam messages and WLM 2009 never crashed.

https://secure.dslreports.com/forum/...coded-Messages
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Oct 2014   #35
nikki605

Windows 7 Pro x64
 
 

I had 6 more of those ?ISO-8859 formatted emails this morning and they all forwarded with no problem. We may be barking up the wrong tree thinking these are the cause of the WLM crashes. Especially since I was forwarding these all the time using WinXP & WLM 2009.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Oct 2014   #36
Slartybart

x64 (6.3.9600) Win8.1 Pro & soon dual boot x64 (6.1.7601) Win7_SP1 HomePrem
 
 

Sorry for the delay and thanks for the detailed updates.

I tested the eMail you placed in your post (thanks for removing the code box) and I was able to forward it without incident. Looking under the covers of the msg, I saw nothing that might give WLM the fits. I began to think that the copy/paste operation might have "cleaned" up the msg (all it takes is one bit/byte difference) and was going to ask you to drag the errant msg to your Downloads folder. That would preserve the msg in it's original format (Filename.eml). The forum won't allow you to upload a file type .eml, so you'd hae to pack it in a zip folder.

How did you migrate from the earlier version of WLM? 2009 was a fairly good release, 2011 was quite buggy - upgrading from 2011-> 2012 caused more problems. But essentially WLM 2012 is a solid release if ... if you do a clean install and by clean I mean all remnants of WLM are removed and then the offline installer is used.

Importing accounts and eMail, rather than moving the DB to the new folders is advised.

I could not find my notes from two years ago, so if you want to go that route, I'd be willing to work up the procedure again, with your help. Every system is different and I'd base it on what's on my machine - you'd have to verify what's on your machine.

Basically, you would export the email account(s) information (not the eMails) and export your contacts, and record any filtering.
I'd write a batch file to rename the existing WLM folders (essentially a backup).
I'd find the current offline WLM installer for you to use and you would install it.
Launch the new install to initialize it, but don't do any configuration.
Add the account exported file to the new WLM tree and launch WLM again to complete the import
import the contacts from the export
import the eMail from the renamed folder
move the imported eMail from the recovery folders to where you want them

It sounds like a lot, but it takes less than 30 minutes if everything goes well - it always has for me and the members I helped before. The only confusion has been regarding the imports (account is almost magic) and eMail can't be located (under Storage Recovery folders). It's comical now, but one member imported the eMail 5 or 6 times and then wondered why there were so many eMail msgs.

You could also drag and drop the eMail into WLM folders directly, but I think that's more work. The real trick is to work INSIDE WLM - trying to move objects using Cmd or Explorer will not work. WLM has to maintain the DBs.

Sorry for the shorthand above, I'll be much more precise if you decide to go the new install route.

Bill
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My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Oct 2014   #37
Slartybart

x64 (6.3.9600) Win8.1 Pro & soon dual boot x64 (6.1.7601) Win7_SP1 HomePrem
 
 

If it turns out that a message formatted in a certain way can cause WLM 2012 to crash, then MS has taken a giant step backwards.

Just wanted to say that any program has the potential to crash given garbage input or when it relies on libraries and the library crashes. It's not the way it is formatted (ISO 8859 or another standard) it is specific content - that's why most of the msgs do not crash.

Last year we spent a month or more tackling a similar error - only two members had the issue and it was intermittent. When one member finally provided the source file, endeavor was able to reproduce the error. He and I traced the issue back to MSHTML.dll which was updated shortly before the errors began. Note that other applications using MSHTML.dll did not exhibit the issue, only mail - also note that MSHTML is not part of mail, but it is a library called by many applications having to process HTML objects.

The resolution was to report the issue to MS and wait for another update - it was delivered about two weeks later through Windows Update.

Needless to say, these are not easy issues to solve.

Bill
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My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Oct 2014   #38
nikki605

Windows 7 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Slartybart View Post
How did you migrate from the earlier version of WLM? 2009 was a fairly good release, 2011 was quite buggy - upgrading from 2011-> 2012 caused more problems. But essentially WLM 2012 is a solid release if ... if you do a clean install and by clean I mean all remnants of WLM are removed and then the offline installer is used.

Importing accounts and eMail, rather than moving the DB to the new folders is advised.
When I migrated the WLM messages & accounts from the old WinXP PC to this new Win7 PC back in July, I knew the Extensible Storage Engine (ESE) File extension EDB - Open .edb files version and therefore file structure were different, so I knew better than to just copy the DB folders/files to the new machine.

I exported the email messages and accounts on the old WinXP machine to an external USB hard drive, moved the hard drive to the new Win7 machine and imported the email messages and accounts into a newly downloaded and installed version of MS Essentials (WLM) on the Win7 machine. This way I knew the DB would be built correctly.

In the days since the last crash, I have forwarded dozens of spam messages to Verizon with no problem. I actually seem to be getting an increased amount of spam lately (maybe from the many data breaches) and it is disappointing that the Verizon spam filter is so poor. WLM correctly identifies them as spam and puts them in the Junk Folder. Sure would be nice if Verizon caught them first. I should probably stop forwarding them and just delete them. Verizon doesn't seem to be doing anything to improve their spam filter anyway.

The next time it happens, I'll drag the message to another folder as a .eml file, zip it and upload it.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Oct 2014   #39
nikki605

Windows 7 Pro x64
 
 

In the spirit of full disclosure I'm installing these latest MS critical updates right now, in case my symptoms change:


Attached Thumbnails
WLM 2012 Started Crashing when Sending Emails-updates.jpg  
My System SpecsSystem Spec
18 Oct 2014   #40
Slartybart

x64 (6.3.9600) Win8.1 Pro & soon dual boot x64 (6.1.7601) Win7_SP1 HomePrem
 
 

Thanks, exporting and importing into a fresh WLM install rules out a big question.

It's always good to keep your system up-to-date with all Windows updates - I'm not confident these updates will have any effect on the issue.

See if WLM troubleshooting provides any additional information:
Click the blue WLM File menu
Select Options -> Mail -> Advanced tab
Click the Maintenance... button
Under Troubleshooting
Tick General
Tick E-mail
Click Close

Review the spelling options, this is how I have WLM spelling setup.
WLM 2012 Started Crashing when Sending Emails-wlm-spelling.png
Click OK to exit options

If Filters USA is in your contacts, the address should be considered as a safe sender. You could manually enter their address into the safe senders list:
Click the blue WLM File menu
Select Options -> Safety options -> Safe Senders tab
Click the Add button and enter their address

I suggest these settings fro the other options
Tick Also trust email from my Contacts
Clear Automatically add people I email to the Safe Senders list


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