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Windows 7: BSOD during Macrium Image creation

30 Oct 2011   #11
carwiz

Windows 7 Pro-x64
 
 

It appears to me that your memory is running a bit under speed. I wonder if the modules are really 1.6v. Mfgs will sometimes report specs at 1.6v. That or your FSB is drooping too far below 100MHz. Memory speed on 667MHz module shouldn't vary by more than a couple of MHz. Yours is about 5MHz Also, the Command Rate seems high for 9,9,9,24 modules. CR for these is typically "1".

Regards, another Ken


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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31 Oct 2011   #12
Golden
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Ult. x64
 
 

Thanks for jumping in Ken. I got some of that, but the rest is all pretty much gibbersih to my frail brain Is there anything you recommend I might try? I'm guessing making some sort of adjustment to RAM voltages in the CMOS?

I've never done anything like that before, so I understand I need to be pretty darn careful. What do you recommend?

Regards,
Golden
My System SpecsSystem Spec
31 Oct 2011   #13
TVeblen

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 64 Bit Home Premium SP1
 
 

In AWARD BIOS the Turbo setting under DRAM Timing Control reduces the CAS access time (latency) by 1 clock tick. Some RAM modules have some overhead in their timings and some do not (this is due to the industry practice of binning). So your first course of action should be to disable all performance boosters and set everything related to CPU and RAM in BIOS to normal, or default.

Time and again we have seen the condition where someone populates all 4 RAM slots on a motherboard and the board cannot maintain a constant voltage to all 4 modules simultaneously. Some people report success with increasing the overall RAM voltage which seems to correct the condition. Others have no luck with this but can get results by adjusting the timings (usually lowering them).

Both settings are adjusted incrementally in very small increases or decreases. It is usually 0.05v or 0.1v at a time for voltage, and you should not have to increase the voltage very much above spec. It is a tedious process. You make the change then run the system to see if the condition returns.

Some BIOS settings have voltage settings that increase by percentages. I'd avoid those and look for the voltage settings that let you enter the exact voltage.

And then there is always the possibility that one stick of RAM is too far out of spec compared to the other modules to operate smoothly with them. This is most frustrating because these sticks will easily pass memory tests like Memtest, which is just looking for bad registers.

Curious: were all 4 sticks sold as a matched set?

Hope that helps.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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31 Oct 2011   #14
carwiz

Windows 7 Pro-x64
 
 

If your BIOS allows it, drop the CR down to "1". When four modules are installed, the BIOS may default to 2T but I don't think your modules are fast enough for that. The BIOS may allow you to set the memory voltage too but I would like to see what it's set at now.

If you have any other machine monitoring programs running (temp, voltage, fan, etc.), STOP all of them, remove them from your startup and don't allow them to add drivers. Reboot. Then download and run HWiNOF64 (64-bit). On the Sensor window, scroll down and take a snip of the motherboard sensors and post it. This will show temps and voltages at various locations. This is the ONLY one I trust to give valid readings.

If you'd like, go ahead and post a snip of the System Summary window also. This will show current timings.

HWiNFO64: HWiNFO64 Download (link to download page - select from left column of table)

Here's a screen snip of one I just ran.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
31 Oct 2011   #15
carwiz

Windows 7 Pro-x64
 
 

Forgot to mention: You don't need the Driver and BIOS Agents. I prefer to get my updates directly from Intel when I want them. The Agents just add another level of "openness" to your system.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Nov 2011   #16
Golden
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Ult. x64
 
 

@TVeblen : thanks for the detailed description, I have defaulted back to the "Standard" DRAM setting from "Turbo". So far the system has not yet BSOD'ed, but that could be luck more than anything else. The RAM was sold in invidual sticks, not as matching pairs.

@Carwiz (Ken) : I have no other monitoring software in startup, and have uninstalled Speccy. Here is the screencapture from HWInfo64 as requested. I haven't yet tinkered with the BIOS : I thought I would just paste the info before doing anything more so we have a base to work from.

In HWInfo64, I see the CR = 2T value, but I don't see a DRAM voltage setting in the sensor status.....am I missing something? I also captured the Memory information in case that is of use to you:

Code:
 
General Module Information                                                      
Module Number:                                                                  0
Module Size:                                                                    4096 MBytes
Memory Type:                                                                    DDR3 SDRAM
Module Type:                                                                    Unbuffered DIMM (UDIMM)
Memory Speed:                                                                   800.0 MHz (PC3-12800)
Module Manufacturer:                                                            Corsair
Module Part Number:                                                             CMZ16GX3M4A1600C9
Module Revision:                                                                0
Module Serial Number:                                                           0
Module Manufacturing Date:                                                      Year: 2000, Week: 0
Module Manufacturing Location:                                                  1
SDRAM Manufacturer:                                                             Unknown
Error Check/Correction:                                                         None
Module characteristics                                                          
Row Address Bits:                                                               15
Column Address Bits:                                                            10
Number Of Banks:                                                                8
Module Density:                                                                 2048 Mb
Number Of Ranks:                                                                2
Device Width:                                                                   8 bits
Bus Width:                                                                      64 bits
Module Nominal Voltage (VDD):                                                   1.5 V
Module timing                                                                   
Minimum SDRAM Cycle Time (tCKmin):                                              1.500 ns
CAS# Latencies Supported:                                                       6, 7, 8, 9
Minimum CAS# Latency Time (tAAmin):                                             13.500 ns
Minimum RAS# to CAS# Delay (tRCDmin):                                           13.500 ns
Minimum Row Precharge Time (tRPmin):                                            13.500 ns
Minimum Active to Precharge Time (tRASmin):                                     36.000 ns
Supported Module Timing at 666.7 MHz:                                           9-9-9-24
Supported Module Timing at 533.3 MHz:                                           8-8-8-20
Supported Module Timing at 400.0 MHz:                                           6-6-6-15
Minimum Write Recovery Time (tWRmin):                                           15.000 ns
Minimum Row Active to Row Active Delay (tRRDmin):                               7.500 ns
Minimum Active to Active/Refresh Time (tRCmin):                                 50.625 ns
Minimum Refresh Recovery Time Delay (tRFCmin):                                  160.000 ns
Minimum Internal Write to Read Command Delay (tWTRmin):                         7.500 ns
Minimum Internal Read to Precharge Command Delay (tRTPmin):                     7.500 ns
Minimum Four Activate Window Delay Time (tFAWmin):                              37.500 ns
Features                                                                        
On-die Thermal Sensor (ODTS) Readout:                                           Not Supported
Auto Self Refresh (ASR):                                                        Not Supported
Extended Temperature Refresh Rate:                                              Not Supported
Extended Temperature Range:                                                     Supported
Module Temperature Sensor:                                                      Not Supported
Module Nominal Height:                                                          45 - 46 mm
Module Maximum Thickness (Front):                                               1 - 2 mm
Module Maximum Thickness (Back):                                                1 - 2 mm
Intel Extreme Memory Profile (XMP)                                              
XMP Revision:                                                                   1.2
Enthusiast / Certified Profile [Enabled]                                        
Module VDD Voltage Level:                                                       1.50 V
CAS# Latencies Supported:                                                       6, 9
Minimum SDRAM Cycle Time (tCKmin):                                              1.250 ns (800.0 MHz)
Minimum CAS Latency Time (tAAmin):                                                11.250 ns
Minimum RAS# to CAS# Delay Time (tRCDmin):                                    11.250 ns
Minimum Row Precharge Delay Time (tRPmin):                                      11.250 ns
Minimum Active to Precharge Delay Time (tRASmin):                              30.000 ns
Minimum CAS Write Latency Time (tCWLmin):                                       11.250 ns
Minimum Write Recovery Time (tWRmin):                                             15.000 ns
Minimum Active to Active/Refresh Delay Time (tRCmin):                          50.625 ns
Maximum tREFI Time (Average Periodic Refresh Interval):                        7.750 us
Minimum Refresh Recovery Delay Time (tRFCmin):                                  160.000 ns
Minimum Internal Read to Precharge Command Delay Time (tRTPmin):        7.500 ns
Minimum Row Active to Row Active Delay Time (tRRDmin):                       7.500 ns
Minimum Four Activate Window Delay Time (tFAWmin):                           37.5 ns
Minimum Internal Write to Read Command Delay Time (tWTRmin):             7.500 ns
Supported Module Timing at 800.0 MHz:                                               9-9-9-24
Read to Write CMD Turn-around Time Optimization:                                No adjustment
Write to Read CMD Turn-around Time Optimization:                                No adjustment
Back 2 Back CMD Turn-around Time Optimization:                                  No adjustment
System Command Rate Mode:                                                            2N
Thanks fellas. I appreciate your help.
Golden
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Nov 2011   #17
Dave76

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ult x64 - SP1/ Windows 8 Pro x64
 
 

Hi Golden,

When using 4GB or more RAM, more than 2 RAM cards, you might need to bump the CPU integrated memory controller voltage. Sometimes you might have to bump the DRAM voltage.

You will have to get your CPU integrated memory controller and DRAM voltage from the BIOS.
Check in your motherboard manual: GA-P55A-UD3R (rev. 1.0)
MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.) > Advanced Voltage Settings, page 43.

Bump your CPU integrated memory controller voltage, qpi/vtt voltage in your BIOS, to 1.20v. Default setting is 1.10v and is aimed at standard users with 4GB RAM or less.
If you still get BSoDs then bump you DRAM voltage to 1.55v.
Be sure to keep the DRAM voltage and the qpi/vtt voltage within 0.50v of each other, this is the Intel CPU (Integrated memory controller) requirement. This will keep you from damaging the CPU integrated memory controller.

I would leave your frequency at 1333MHz, 667MHz in the HWInfo64 snip.

The CR (Command Rate) of 2T is better when using more than 2 DIMMs or more than 4GB RAM.
The 1T setting is faster, but not as stable as 2T when you have lots of RAM, more than 4GB.
Quote:
CMD: Command Rate. The time it takes between the memory chip having been activated and when the first command may be sent to the memory. Sometimes this value is not announced. It usually is T1 (1 clock cycle) or T2 (2 clock cycles).
With DDR3, which is very fast RAM, the difference between 1600MHz and 1333MHz is not very noticeable to the average user. Same with the CR (Command Rate) of 1T vs 2T.
It was recommended to use 1T with DDR RAM and somewhat with DDR2 RAM, but is only a small fractional speed increase for DDR3 RAM.

Try the above settings and let us know the results.
They should let your system run stable, if not then a little more tweaking.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Nov 2011   #18
Britton30
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Ultimate X64 SP1
 
 

Hi Colin, I agree you may need to bump up the CPU Memory Controller volts along with the DRAM volts too. Very small increments.
The CPU at 40C sounds too hot. I would have a look at the thermal paste, a pea-sized glop is too much and may have squished out on to other circuits. Use a good paste cleaner on the Noctua and the CPU completing with a good rub of 91% isopropyl alcohol. Use a rice-grain glop of paste. Lower the cooler and twist and press to spread the paste before tightening it.
I'm unsure how that cooler attaches, but if with screws or nuts, don't over-tighten it. It can warp the motherboard and cause BSOD.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Nov 2011   #19
carwiz

Windows 7 Pro-x64
 
 

The 40c was the maximum on Core-3. That's really not out of line. It's common for the individual core temps to be higher than the base temp. If you look at the CPU base, it ranged from 28-31c. That would indicate a good thermal transfer is already occurring.

The voltages look pretty rock steady. (Vcore will change.) The Memory voltage is listed as "DIMM" at 1.584v across the board. You can see that the processor was drawing from 2.758W to 83.125W and the voltages stayed solid so there doesn't appear to be any sag.

Oh yes, I had a "memory fault" and had CR backward. Dave is correct about 2T versus 1T.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Nov 2011   #20
Golden
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Ult. x64
 
 

Wow, thanks for all the great input guys.

I've done the following:

QPI/vvt = 1.190v (1.200v wasn't available - the next available was 1.210v, so I opted for the safer? lower setting)
I left DRAM = 1.500v (next increment available is 1.560v)

I guess its a case of monitoring now and see what happens.....is there any other recommendations you can make?

Regards,
Golden
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 BSOD during Macrium Image creation




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