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Windows 7: Random BSODs and applications crashes on a fresh Win7 install

30 May 2012   #91
Dave76

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ult x64 - SP1/ Windows 8 Pro x64
 
 

The testing and results are leading me to a PSU problem.
The OCCT CPU VCore test should confirm this.

You can run this tutorial, option three: How to Repair Windows 7 System Files with System File Checker

Run File Hash Checker on your Win7 ISO: File Hash Checker 1.1


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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03 Jun 2012   #92
R4ndom

Windows 7 home Premium 64bit
 
 

Hi Dave and thanks for answering. I have a couple of questions though:
How to check with the programme you sent me the link to if my Win DVD isn't corrupted? It only offers to check individual files and not the whole DVD. I made an ISO out of it with WinISO and ran a check on this. However, I can't find any reference to MD5/SHA1 sums for my version of Windows.

As for repairing according to MS tutorial, the files listed as corrupted and unrepairable by sfc, they reside in many different folders within C:\windows for example aeevts.dll is present in 4 different folders and I have no clue which has to be replaced and I have no clue either where to get uncorrupted versions from...

I attach results from today with C'n'Q, turbo boost and C6 ON and OFF in 2 separate folders inside the zip.

Can the voltage fluctuations be due to MB instability as well PSU's and are they above normal? vcore in BIOS is set to 1.3875v
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Jun 2012   #93
Dave76

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ult x64 - SP1/ Windows 8 Pro x64
 
 

List of known MD5/SHA1 for windows OS

Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit:
Name: en_windows_7_home_premium_x64_dvd_x15-65733.iso
SHA-1: 336779EA6B65F63E11A609B4D021439C47AB315B
CRC: 56D954E4

If you made the ISO from a DVD it may not be the same.
You can D/L the Windows 7 home Premium 64bit ISO from MS and use your key.
Easy way is to put it on a USB flash drive.
Windows 7 USB/DVD Download Tool

To repair files that are not fixed by SFC/ scannow it is best to do a repair install, that will get all the corrupt files.
How to Do a Repair Install to Fix Windows 7

The voltage fluctuations can be due to MB instability, but more likely caused by the PSU.
C'nQ, C6 and Turbo on:
  • +3.3v is not stable
  • +5v is not stable
  • +12v is not stable
  • CPU Vcore is horrible
The CPU Vcore was very unstable even when the test was over.

C'nQ, C6 and Turbo off:
Same, just as bad as when the settings were on, this proves it is not likely the motherboard.
The CPU Vcore voltage is very bad, it's remarkable that the system is running at all.

Replace the PSU, get a good brand with headroom for any upgrades you may do in the future.
A bad PSU can permanently damage all the other components, CPU, RAM, Graphics card, motherboard, Monitor... everything.

If this was my computer, I wouldn't start it again until the new PSU was installed.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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12 Jun 2012   #94
R4ndom

Windows 7 home Premium 64bit
 
 

Hi,

thanks for the links to the repair install, I will try this for sure at some point and will let you know the result. I cannot find the right sums for my version of Windows, so I think I'll download one from MS site, I'm just wondering if OEM key will allow me do that.

As for voltages, I read somewhere that it's actually the MB that manages the CPU voltage (can you confirm that?) and while the PSU fail will surely lead to problems, the CPU vcore fluctiations are due to MB. On mine it seems that it could possibly not only supply unstable voltage, but it's sensors are also worth close to nothing.

I checked all the voltages, but this time not basing myself on buggy software reading from buggy sensors and resulting in 8V for the 12V line as seen on the OCCT graph.

I performed checks on the three lines 12V, 5V and 3.3V under stress and on idle using a multimeter which I plugged directly to the molexes.

Each reading was done for approximately 15-20s for each line and the results were as follows:
stress:

12V: 12.10V - 12.13V
5V: 5.09V - 5.12V
3.3V: 3.35V

idle:

12V: 12.11V-12.15V
5V: 5.10V - 5.13V
3.3V: 3.36V

As you see fluctuations are minimal, if not non-existent. Anyway, they're more than correct according to the ATX norm which allows for 5% variations for 12V and 5V lines and 4% for the 3.3V line. So could it point to the conclusion that PSU isn't the problem in my case after all?..
My System SpecsSystem Spec
18 Jun 2012   #95
R4ndom

Windows 7 home Premium 64bit
 
 

I decided to start from scratch and reinstalled windows. I first tried the repair install, but it wouldn't work saying that it was missing some files and would freeze after some time.

So I reformatted the drive and did a clean install.

Already there, even before I installed chipset drivers, gpu drivers and all the others, as well as antivir (MSE), I got a BSOD just like this. I was actually in event viewer to see WMI errors and some other I can't recall now.

So I knew already at that point that it's useless to continue, nevertheless I installed the required drivers, then tried to update windows, it would hang upon installation of some updates, around 14 out of 51. I waited for 2 or 3 hours, and then had to do a hard reset.

In the meantime, internet explorer would crash, as well as windows explorer.

I restarted windows update, it hang again and I got 2 more bsods in a couple of minutes.

Maybe the chronology isn't perfect here, but it's enough I think to see that something is definitely wrong with this pc. WhoCrashed! reported "a third party driver that might have cause the 1st BSOD" but I didn't have ANY other drivers installed at that time, there was only Windows installed.

I will attach BSODs dumps this afternoon.

Another weird thing: after every blue screen, upon next login, you should normally get a window saying: windows has recovered after an unexpected shutdown". I don't see the message and NOTHING is recorded in the event viewer concerning the BSOD. On the other hand, there are loads of errors relating to appcrashes - mainly svchost, iexplorer, windows explorer.

I cannot download the windows 7 home premium iso from the link you provided, seems like MS won't let you download an iso unless you buy an electronically distributed version of windows.... and this can be done only for specific language versions, mine has never been on sale through electronic channel.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
18 Jun 2012   #96
R4ndom

Windows 7 home Premium 64bit
 
 

Here's the dump file. Last BSOd took place when I was running the jcgriff script and after this BSOD only I received a message when logging in again to windows that "it has recovered after an unexpected shutdown". There's also only 1 single entry in event viewer relating to BSODs since I did the fresh install 2 days ago and thus its the only entry in the jcgriff zip. All of the other BSODS weren't recorded at all. I borrowed a disk today to try yet another install to rule out disk issues.

Strangely, the WhoCrashed! app detected 2 different BSODS:

Code:
Crash dump directory: C:\Windows\Minidump

Crash dumps are enabled on your computer.


On Mon 2012-06-18 16:06:43 GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\061812-21684-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x1AB007) 
Bugcheck code: 0x1000007E (0xFFFFFFFFC0000005, 0xFFFFF80002E08007, 0xFFFFF880031B6778, 0xFFFFF880031B5FD0)
Error: SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED_M
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that a system thread generated an exception which the error handler did not catch.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem. 
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time. 


On Mon 2012-06-18 16:06:43 GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\memory.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntkrnlmp.exe (nt!KeBugCheckEx+0x0) 
Bugcheck code: 0x7E (0xFFFFFFFFC0000005, 0xFFFFF80002E08007, 0xFFFFF880031B6778, 0xFFFFF880031B5FD0)
Error: SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED
Bug check description: This bug check indicates that a system thread generated an exception that the error handler did not catch.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time. 
My System SpecsSystem Spec
18 Jun 2012   #97
R4ndom

Windows 7 home Premium 64bit
 
 

As I was trying to reply to the thread, I had another BSOD and before that one, yet another as I tried to open Windows Management Console. WhoCrashed! reported the following:

Code:
On Mon 2012-06-18 16:40:53 GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\061812-19375-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x7F1C0) 
Bugcheck code: 0x4E (0x99, 0x120DF6, 0x2, 0x1201F5)
Error: PFN_LIST_CORRUPT
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that the page frame number (PFN) list is corrupted.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem. This might be a case of memory corruption. More often memory corruption happens because of software errors in buggy drivers, not because of faulty RAM modules. 
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time. 
 
 
On Mon 2012-06-18 16:40:53 GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\memory.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntkrnlmp.exe (nt!KeBugCheckEx+0x0) 
Bugcheck code: 0x4E (0x99, 0x120DF6, 0x2, 0x1201F5)
Error: PFN_LIST_CORRUPT
Bug check description: This indicates that the page frame number (PFN) list is corrupted.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem. This might be a case of memory corruption. More often memory corruption happens because of software errors in buggy drivers, not because of faulty RAM modules. 
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time. 

 
On Mon 2012-06-18 16:32:52 GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\061812-21855-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x7F1C0) 
Bugcheck code: 0x19 (0x20, 0xFFFFF8A008E56680, 0xFFFFF8A008E56CD0, 0x5650074)
Error: BAD_POOL_HEADER
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that a pool header is corrupt.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem. This might be a case of memory corruption. More often memory corruption happens because of software errors in buggy drivers, not because of faulty RAM modules. 
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time. 
Hope you can read it before it bsods again. It's even worse than before OS reinstall. I begin installing on the borrowed disk.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
18 Jun 2012   #98
writhziden

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
 
 

All your crashes indicate the RAM as the culprit still. Sorry about my original response. Seems I found the wrong RAM. I now see the link you gave: OCZ DDR3 PC3-12800 CL8 Edition Reaper Low Voltage Dual Channel - OCZ


Dave highly suspects the PSU. His expertise with hardware is difficult to match, so I would be pretty confident that he knows what he is talking about. If you do not want to replace the PSU, at least try to find a PSU you can borrow that has similar wattage or better (preferably better) to your current PSU to test. You should try to borrow from a friend or colleague who is willing to lend you the PSU for quick testing purposes.


Also, since I am somewhat new to this thread, can you list what hardware you have replaced since starting the thread?
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19 Jun 2012   #99
R4ndom

Windows 7 home Premium 64bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by writhziden View Post
All your crashes indicate the RAM as the culprit still. Sorry about my original response. Seems I found the wrong RAM. I now see the link you gave: OCZ DDR3 PC3-12800 CL8 Edition Reaper Low Voltage Dual Channel - OCZ
Hi writhziden and thanks for the reply. Yes, that's the RAM I have, what do you mean by your original response? The one before edit? If so, I didn't see it, so don't worry


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by writhziden View Post
Dave highly suspects the PSU. His expertise with hardware is difficult to match, so I would be pretty confident that he knows what he is talking about. If you do not want to replace the PSU, at least try to find a PSU you can borrow that has similar wattage or better (preferably better) to your current PSU to test. You should try to borrow from a friend or colleague who is willing to lend you the PSU for quick testing purposes.
Me too was suspecting the PSU, especially after what has been concluded concerning voltages, etc. But then I checked the PSU with a multimeter and showed no fluctuations whatsoever - 0.1-03V are marginal to the extent that they could be due to measurement errors in the device itself.

We were suspecting RAMs, so I bought new ones, which appeared to be somewhat odd, as my PC would keep crashing when I installed them and would generate errors in memtest after 2-3 minutes and the next day it would pass memtest for 17 hours straigth without a single error. So I came back to using the OCZ and I think I won't even send the others for RMA as it would cost me the same price I paid just to post the sticks.

MB was suspected as well, but I think that's the element most difficult to rule out, most of the time it either works or not.

CPU had also been a suspect, but I re-seated it twice since january, no bent pins, temps 32 idle and 52max stress, could always be faulty electronics, but Prime tests showed no errors.

The disk has never been considered as the failing component. However, yesterday I could install win7 on the borrowed disk without any hiccups and here's what I concluded:

1) It installed quicker than on the old disk I would say.
2) All the windows updates installed seamlessly, while with the other disk it was a continuous blue screen, reinstall of updates, freeze or crash of windows updates module and finally another blue screen, all this without any visible pattern and order
3) UAC was failing - this I can see now with the fresh install, some functions just didn't exist with the old install. i.e. it asked me for permissions when I tried to rename a folder, this wasn't the cae with previous installations
4) I get no more svchost app crashes in event viewer, explorer and iexplorer crashes/hangs, windows management console errors are gone as well
5) MSE now starts every time, and so does LAN connection - this wasn't the case before, when MSE would report it's off, and LAN connection desactivated.

All this is weird, as chkdsk and seatools never detected any problems, ok, occasionnaly it would repair something, but SMART readings, surface tests, etc. all showed no signs of corruption. How is it possible then that still the drive is corrupted in some way?

I still want to test it for some days before returning the working disk to the friend, but all signs on earth and heaven point to the samsung as the culprit.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by writhziden View Post
so, since I am somewhat new to this thread, can you list what hardware you have replaced since starting the thread?
Well, since the start of the thread, I replaced RAMs, re-seated all other components, and yesterday borrowed the disk on which I installed the latest OS. Fortunately I didn't buy a new PSU, and decided to test with another hdsk This was in fact already suggested by Dave or you at some point, but I didn't have access to any hd I could borrow at the time. It's a pity, because probably the whole thread would be half of what it's now or less. Presuming of course that it's really the drive that's at fault. I'll keep testing to see, I will also add programmes to see if corruption doesn't reappear. Thanks again for all your contributions.
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19 Jun 2012   #100
writhziden

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
 
 

Nice work with the hard disk swap!

I too wonder why the diagnostics did not reveal anything if it does end up being the hard disk is the culprit. The only thing I can think of is that the hard drive may have just begun to fail, so diagnostics were picking up on the fact that any errors they found were within the realm of normal operating use. It is normal for bad sectors to occur from time to time on any hard disk; in fact, hard disks are designed with spare sectors for this reason. It is when bad sectors start accumulating over time that one should start to worry.

Also, if corruption is occurring on a regular basis, that is another sign of a failing hard disk and may not be picked up by diagnostics since corruption is also within the realm of normal hard disk use. I am not sure what would cause such behavior, but a possible cause would be a slightly bad hard disk head that only causes issues every once in a while but not during extended diagnostic tests. That scenario is unlikely, but possible. The more likely cause is an inconsistent platter or spindle that throws off the head as it writes so it corrupts a sector (or more) during writing.

Diagnostic utilities are not foolproof, unfortunately. They have to take into account a lot of factors that are within operating standards, so if one of those factors is occurring more than it should but is still within specs, the diagnostics may miss it.

Further reading: NTFS.com HARD DRIVES. Hard Disk Drive Basics.
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