| Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit Colorado |
Code: -
Loading Dump File [C:\Users\Mike\Downloads\BSODDmpFiles\joningik\Windows_NT6_BSOD_jcgriff2\011012-30700-01.dmp]
Mini Kernel Dump File: Only registers and stack trace are available
Symbol search path is: SRV*c:\users\mike\documents\symbols*http://msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols
Executable search path is:
Windows 7 Kernel Version 7600 MP (4 procs) Free x64
Product: WinNt, suite: TerminalServer SingleUserTS
Built by: 7600.16841.amd64fre.win7_gdr.110622-1503
Machine Name:
Kernel base = 0xfffff800`03060000 PsLoadedModuleList = 0xfffff800`0329de70
Debug session time: Mon Jan 9 17:16:42.615 2012 (UTC - 7:00)
System Uptime: 2 days 4:19:05.019
Loading Kernel Symbols
...............................................................
................................................................
..........................
Loading User Symbols
Loading unloaded module list
.........
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* *
* Bugcheck Analysis *
* *
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Use !analyze -v to get detailed debugging information.
BugCheck 3B, {c0000005, fffff8800680cdf3, fffff8800a5b1ea0, 0}
Probably caused by : avgtdia.sys ( avgtdia+7df3 )
Followup: MachineOwner
---------
2: kd> !analyze -v
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* *
* Bugcheck Analysis *
* *
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SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION (3b)
An exception happened while executing a system service routine.
Arguments:
Arg1: 00000000c0000005, Exception code that caused the bugcheck
Arg2: fffff8800680cdf3, Address of the instruction which caused the bugcheck
Arg3: fffff8800a5b1ea0, Address of the context record for the exception that caused the bugcheck
Arg4: 0000000000000000, zero.
Debugging Details:
------------------
EXCEPTION_CODE: (NTSTATUS) 0xc0000005 - The instruction at 0x%08lx referenced memory at 0x%08lx. The memory could not be %s.
FAULTING_IP:
avgtdia+7df3
fffff880`0680cdf3 48897108 mov qword ptr [rcx+8],rsi
CONTEXT: fffff8800a5b1ea0 -- (.cxr 0xfffff8800a5b1ea0)
rax=0000000000000000 rbx=fffffa801397b218 rcx=005c006500630069
rdx=fffffa801397b300 rsi=fffffa801397b318 rdi=fffffa801397b2b0
rip=fffff8800680cdf3 rsp=fffff8800a5b2870 rbp=fffffa801397b328
r8=fffffa8007e8b700 r9=0000000000000000 r10=0000000000000000
r11=0000000000000000 r12=fffff880079f7601 r13=0000000000000001
r14=0000000000000010 r15=fffffa800c8434b0
iopl=0 nv up ei ng nz na po cy
cs=0010 ss=0018 ds=002b es=002b fs=0053 gs=002b efl=00010287
avgtdia+0x7df3:
fffff880`0680cdf3 48897108 mov qword ptr [rcx+8],rsi ds:002b:005c0065`00630071=????????????????
Resetting default scope
CUSTOMER_CRASH_COUNT: 1
DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID: VISTA_DRIVER_FAULT
BUGCHECK_STR: 0x3B
PROCESS_NAME: avgnsa.exe
CURRENT_IRQL: 2
LAST_CONTROL_TRANSFER: from 0000000000000000 to fffff8800680cdf3
STACK_TEXT:
fffff880`0a5b2870 00000000`00000000 : 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 : avgtdia+0x7df3
FOLLOWUP_IP:
avgtdia+7df3
fffff880`0680cdf3 48897108 mov qword ptr [rcx+8],rsi
SYMBOL_STACK_INDEX: 0
SYMBOL_NAME: avgtdia+7df3
FOLLOWUP_NAME: MachineOwner
MODULE_NAME: avgtdia
IMAGE_NAME: avgtdia.sys
DEBUG_FLR_IMAGE_TIMESTAMP: 4d9a3e1b
STACK_COMMAND: .cxr 0xfffff8800a5b1ea0 ; kb
FAILURE_BUCKET_ID: X64_0x3B_avgtdia+7df3
BUCKET_ID: X64_0x3B_avgtdia+7df3
Followup: MachineOwner
---------
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Loading Dump File [C:\Users\Mike\Downloads\BSODDmpFiles\joningik\Windows_NT6_BSOD_jcgriff2\011512-27908-01.dmp]
Mini Kernel Dump File: Only registers and stack trace are available
Symbol search path is: SRV*c:\users\mike\documents\symbols*http://msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols
Executable search path is:
Windows 7 Kernel Version 7600 MP (4 procs) Free x64
Product: WinNt, suite: TerminalServer SingleUserTS
Built by: 7600.16841.amd64fre.win7_gdr.110622-1503
Machine Name:
Kernel base = 0xfffff800`03012000 PsLoadedModuleList = 0xfffff800`0324fe70
Debug session time: Sat Jan 14 16:50:21.578 2012 (UTC - 7:00)
System Uptime: 0 days 6:23:47.092
Loading Kernel Symbols
..
Loading User Symbols
Missing image name, possible paged-out or corrupt data.
Loading unloaded module list
..Missing image name, possible paged-out or corrupt data.
.Missing image name, possible paged-out or corrupt data.
.Missing image name, possible paged-out or corrupt data.
.Missing image name, possible paged-out or corrupt data.
..Missing image name, possible paged-out or corrupt data.
.Missing image name, possible paged-out or corrupt data.
.
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* *
* Bugcheck Analysis *
* *
*******************************************************************************
Use !analyze -v to get detailed debugging information.
BugCheck A, {80008, 2, 1, fffff8000308e27f}
Probably caused by : ntkrnlmp.exe ( nt!KiTimerExpiration+ef )
Followup: MachineOwner
---------
0: kd> !analyze -v
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* *
* Bugcheck Analysis *
* *
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IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL (a)
An attempt was made to access a pageable (or completely invalid) address at an
interrupt request level (IRQL) that is too high. This is usually
caused by drivers using improper addresses.
If a kernel debugger is available get the stack backtrace.
Arguments:
Arg1: 0000000000080008, memory referenced
Arg2: 0000000000000002, IRQL
Arg3: 0000000000000001, bitfield :
bit 0 : value 0 = read operation, 1 = write operation
bit 3 : value 0 = not an execute operation, 1 = execute operation (only on chips which support this level of status)
Arg4: fffff8000308e27f, address which referenced memory
Debugging Details:
------------------
WRITE_ADDRESS: GetPointerFromAddress: unable to read from fffff800032ba0e0
0000000000080008
CURRENT_IRQL: 0
FAULTING_IP:
nt!KiTimerExpiration+ef
fffff800`0308e27f 488901 mov qword ptr [rcx],rax
CUSTOMER_CRASH_COUNT: 1
DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID: VISTA_DRIVER_FAULT
BUGCHECK_STR: 0xA
LAST_CONTROL_TRANSFER: from fffff800030900ca to fffff880068a77f2
STACK_TEXT:
fffff800`043d6c98 fffff800`030900ca : 00000000`ffffffed fffffa80`08104788 fffff800`0320ac40 00000000`00000001 : 0xfffff880`068a77f2
fffff800`043d6ca0 fffff800`0308ad5c : fffff800`031fce80 fffff800`00000000 00000000`00000000 fffff880`0149ac50 : nt!PoIdle+0x53a
fffff800`043d6d80 00000000`00000000 : 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 : nt!KiIdleLoop+0x2c
STACK_COMMAND: .bugcheck ; kb
FOLLOWUP_IP:
nt!KiTimerExpiration+ef
fffff800`0308e27f 488901 mov qword ptr [rcx],rax
SYMBOL_NAME: nt!KiTimerExpiration+ef
FOLLOWUP_NAME: MachineOwner
MODULE_NAME: nt
IMAGE_NAME: ntkrnlmp.exe
DEBUG_FLR_IMAGE_TIMESTAMP: 4e02aa44
FAILURE_BUCKET_ID: X64_0xA_nt!KiTimerExpiration+ef
BUCKET_ID: X64_0xA_nt!KiTimerExpiration+ef
Followup: MachineOwner
---------
-
Loading Dump File [C:\Users\Mike\Downloads\BSODDmpFiles\joningik\Windows_NT6_BSOD_jcgriff2\011512-25693-01.dmp]
Mini Kernel Dump File: Only registers and stack trace are available
Symbol search path is: SRV*c:\users\mike\documents\symbols*http://msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols
Executable search path is:
Windows 7 Kernel Version 7600 MP (4 procs) Free x64
Product: WinNt, suite: TerminalServer SingleUserTS
Built by: 7600.16841.amd64fre.win7_gdr.110622-1503
Machine Name:
Kernel base = 0xfffff800`03059000 PsLoadedModuleList = 0xfffff800`03296e70
Debug session time: Sun Jan 15 10:14:14.806 2012 (UTC - 7:00)
System Uptime: 0 days 0:00:14.648
Loading Kernel Symbols
...............................................................
...............................................
Loading User Symbols
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* *
* Bugcheck Analysis *
* *
*******************************************************************************
Use !analyze -v to get detailed debugging information.
BugCheck 1000007E, {ffffffffc0000005, fffff88000ebc20c, fffff880031c3d78, fffff880031c35e0}
Probably caused by : pci.sys ( pci!PciReadDeviceConfig+6c )
Followup: MachineOwner
---------
2: kd> !analyze -v
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* *
* Bugcheck Analysis *
* *
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SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED_M (1000007e)
This is a very common bugcheck. Usually the exception address pinpoints
the driver/function that caused the problem. Always note this address
as well as the link date of the driver/image that contains this address.
Some common problems are exception code 0x80000003. This means a hard
coded breakpoint or assertion was hit, but this system was booted
/NODEBUG. This is not supposed to happen as developers should never have
hardcoded breakpoints in retail code, but ...
If this happens, make sure a debugger gets connected, and the
system is booted /DEBUG. This will let us see why this breakpoint is
happening.
Arguments:
Arg1: ffffffffc0000005, The exception code that was not handled
Arg2: fffff88000ebc20c, The address that the exception occurred at
Arg3: fffff880031c3d78, Exception Record Address
Arg4: fffff880031c35e0, Context Record Address
Debugging Details:
------------------
EXCEPTION_CODE: (NTSTATUS) 0xc0000005 - The instruction at 0x%08lx referenced memory at 0x%08lx. The memory could not be %s.
FAULTING_IP:
pci!PciReadDeviceConfig+6c
fffff880`00ebc20c 4c8b5020 mov r10,qword ptr [rax+20h]
EXCEPTION_RECORD: fffff880031c3d78 -- (.exr 0xfffff880031c3d78)
ExceptionAddress: fffff88000ebc20c (pci!PciReadDeviceConfig+0x000000000000006c)
ExceptionCode: c0000005 (Access violation)
ExceptionFlags: 00000000
NumberParameters: 2
Parameter[0]: 0000000000000000
Parameter[1]: 0000000000000020
Attempt to read from address 0000000000000020
CONTEXT: fffff880031c35e0 -- (.cxr 0xfffff880031c35e0)
rax=0000000000000000 rbx=fffffa80073c4a70 rcx=fffffa80073c4a70
rdx=0000000000000000 rsi=0000000000000004 rdi=0000000000000002
rip=fffff88000ebc20c rsp=fffff880031c3fb0 rbp=0000000000000000
r8=0000000000000000 r9=fffff880031c4068 r10=0000000000000100
r11=fffffa80073b9d48 r12=0000000000000001 r13=fffff88000ed72f4
r14=fffffa800806ba28 r15=fffffa80073c4a20
iopl=0 nv up ei ng nz na po cy
cs=0010 ss=0018 ds=002b es=002b fs=0053 gs=002b efl=00010287
pci!PciReadDeviceConfig+0x6c:
fffff880`00ebc20c 4c8b5020 mov r10,qword ptr [rax+20h] ds:002b:00000000`00000020=????????????????
Resetting default scope
CUSTOMER_CRASH_COUNT: 1
PROCESS_NAME: System
CURRENT_IRQL: 0
ERROR_CODE: (NTSTATUS) 0xc0000005 - The instruction at 0x%08lx referenced memory at 0x%08lx. The memory could not be %s.
EXCEPTION_PARAMETER1: 0000000000000000
EXCEPTION_PARAMETER2: 0000000000000020
READ_ADDRESS: GetPointerFromAddress: unable to read from fffff800033010e0
0000000000000020
FOLLOWUP_IP:
pci!PciReadDeviceConfig+6c
fffff880`00ebc20c 4c8b5020 mov r10,qword ptr [rax+20h]
BUGCHECK_STR: 0x7E
DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID: NULL_CLASS_PTR_DEREFERENCE
LOCK_ADDRESS: fffff800032cd420 -- (!locks fffff800032cd420)
Resource @ nt!PiEngineLock (0xfffff800032cd420) Available
WARNING: SystemResourcesList->Flink chain invalid. Resource may be corrupted, or already deleted.
WARNING: SystemResourcesList->Blink chain invalid. Resource may be corrupted, or already deleted.
1 total locks
PNP_TRIAGE:
Lock address : 0xfffff800032cd420
Thread Count : 0
Thread address: 0x0000000000000000
Thread wait : 0x0
LAST_CONTROL_TRANSFER: from fffff88000ebe660 to fffff88000ebc20c
STACK_TEXT:
fffff880`031c3fb0 fffff880`00ebe660 : 00000000`00000063 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`000000aa : pci!PciReadDeviceConfig+0x6c
fffff880`031c3ff0 fffff880`00ebe5a0 : 00000000`00000004 00000000`00000001 fffffa80`0806b910 ffffffff`fffc1800 : pci!PciStallForPowerChange+0xa4
fffff880`031c4060 fffff880`00ed73ac : 00000008`ffc35001 fffffa80`073c4b70 fffffa80`0806b910 fffff8a0`00004040 : pci!PciSetHardwarePowerState+0xb0
fffff880`031c4090 fffff880`00ebe9d5 : fffffa80`073c4a20 fffffa80`0806b910 00000000`00000000 00000000`ffffffff : pci!PciDevice_Start+0xb8
fffff880`031c4650 fffff880`01501cfc : fffffa80`073c4a20 fffffa80`07fc21a0 fffffa80`0806b910 fffff6fc`4000ad58 : pci!PciDispatchPnpPower+0xd9
fffff880`031c4690 fffff880`01591443 : 00000000`00000000 fffffa80`07ffece0 fffffa80`0806b910 fffff880`11eb4824 : ndis!ndisPassIrpDownTheStack+0x4c
fffff880`031c46f0 fffff800`0348856e : 00000000`00000000 fffffa80`0806b910 fffffa80`07fc2050 fffff880`031c4820 : ndis!ndisPnPDispatch+0x223
fffff880`031c4790 fffff800`031c2ddd : fffffa80`073c4a20 fffffa80`07ffece0 fffff800`031c8a40 00000000`00000000 : nt!PnpAsynchronousCall+0xce
fffff880`031c47d0 fffff800`03493356 : fffff800`032cd1e0 fffffa80`073c36e0 fffffa80`07ffece0 fffffa80`073c3888 : nt!PnpStartDevice+0x11d
fffff880`031c4890 fffff800`034935f4 : fffffa80`073c36e0 fffffa80`06a6003f fffffa80`06a67b80 00000000`00000001 : nt!PnpStartDeviceNode+0x156
fffff880`031c4920 fffff800`034b68e6 : fffffa80`073c36e0 fffffa80`06a67b80 00000000`00000002 00000000`00000000 : nt!PipProcessStartPhase1+0x74
fffff880`031c4950 fffff800`034b6d9c : fffff800`032cada0 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000001 fffff800`03332cf8 : nt!PipProcessDevNodeTree+0x296
fffff880`031c4bc0 fffff800`031cb092 : 00000001`00000003 fffff800`0326e5f8 00000000`00000001 00000000`00000000 : nt!PiProcessStartSystemDevices+0x7c
fffff880`031c4c10 fffff800`030d67e1 : fffff800`031cad90 fffff800`033c2901 fffffa80`06a35000 00000000`00000000 : nt!PnpDeviceActionWorker+0x302
fffff880`031c4cb0 fffff800`033696fa : 00000000`00000000 fffffa80`06a35040 00000000`00000080 fffffa80`06a25040 : nt!ExpWorkerThread+0x111
fffff880`031c4d40 fffff800`030a7b46 : fffff880`02f64180 fffffa80`06a35040 fffff880`02f6efc0 00000000`01040000 : nt!PspSystemThreadStartup+0x5a
fffff880`031c4d80 00000000`00000000 : 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 : nt!KiStartSystemThread+0x16
SYMBOL_STACK_INDEX: 0
SYMBOL_NAME: pci!PciReadDeviceConfig+6c
FOLLOWUP_NAME: MachineOwner
MODULE_NAME: pci
IMAGE_NAME: pci.sys
DEBUG_FLR_IMAGE_TIMESTAMP: 4a5bc117
STACK_COMMAND: .cxr 0xfffff880031c35e0 ; kb
FAILURE_BUCKET_ID: X64_0x7E_pci!PciReadDeviceConfig+6c
BUCKET_ID: X64_0x7E_pci!PciReadDeviceConfig+6c
Followup: MachineOwner
---------
-
Loading Dump File [C:\Users\Mike\Downloads\BSODDmpFiles\joningik\Windows_NT6_BSOD_jcgriff2\011612-23010-01.dmp]
Mini Kernel Dump File: Only registers and stack trace are available
Symbol search path is: SRV*c:\users\mike\documents\symbols*http://msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols
Executable search path is:
Windows 7 Kernel Version 7600 MP (4 procs) Free x64
Product: WinNt, suite: TerminalServer SingleUserTS
Built by: 7600.16841.amd64fre.win7_gdr.110622-1503
Machine Name:
Kernel base = 0xfffff800`0304c000 PsLoadedModuleList = 0xfffff800`03289e70
Debug session time: Mon Jan 16 11:57:12.862 2012 (UTC - 7:00)
System Uptime: 0 days 0:00:28.750
Loading Kernel Symbols
................................................
Loading User Symbols
*******************************************************************************
* *
* Bugcheck Analysis *
* *
*******************************************************************************
Use !analyze -v to get detailed debugging information.
BugCheck 3B, {c0000005, fffff88000db1fa9, fffff88003840940, 0}
Probably caused by : fltmgr.sys ( fltmgr!GetContextFromStreamList+99 )
Followup: MachineOwner
---------
0: kd> !analyze -v
*******************************************************************************
* *
* Bugcheck Analysis *
* *
*******************************************************************************
SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION (3b)
An exception happened while executing a system service routine.
Arguments:
Arg1: 00000000c0000005, Exception code that caused the bugcheck
Arg2: fffff88000db1fa9, Address of the instruction which caused the bugcheck
Arg3: fffff88003840940, Address of the context record for the exception that caused the bugcheck
Arg4: 0000000000000000, zero.
Debugging Details:
------------------
EXCEPTION_CODE: (NTSTATUS) 0xc0000005 - The instruction at 0x%08lx referenced memory at 0x%08lx. The memory could not be %s.
FAULTING_IP:
fltmgr!GetContextFromStreamList+99
fffff880`00db1fa9 488b4820 mov rcx,qword ptr [rax+20h]
CONTEXT: fffff88003840940 -- (.cxr 0xfffff88003840940)
rax=0000000000000011 rbx=0000000000000000 rcx=0000000000000011
rdx=fffffa8007df6cf0 rsi=fffffa80090725d0 rdi=fffffa8009072580
rip=fffff88000db1fa9 rsp=fffff88003841310 rbp=fffff8a001fbf780
r8=0000000000000000 r9=fffff88003841400 r10=fffffa8009072588
r11=0000000000000011 r12=fffff88003841400 r13=0000000000000000
r14=0000000000000000 r15=fffffa8007df6cf0
iopl=0 nv up ei pl nz na po nc
cs=0010 ss=0018 ds=002b es=002b fs=0053 gs=002b efl=00010206
fltmgr!GetContextFromStreamList+0x99:
fffff880`00db1fa9 488b4820 mov rcx,qword ptr [rax+20h] ds:002b:00000000`00000031=????????????????
Resetting default scope
CUSTOMER_CRASH_COUNT: 1
DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID: VISTA_DRIVER_FAULT
BUGCHECK_STR: 0x3B
CURRENT_IRQL: 0
LAST_CONTROL_TRANSFER: from 0000000000000000 to fffff88000db1fa9
STACK_TEXT:
fffff880`03841310 00000000`00000000 : 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 : fltmgr!GetContextFromStreamList+0x99
FOLLOWUP_IP:
fltmgr!GetContextFromStreamList+99
fffff880`00db1fa9 488b4820 mov rcx,qword ptr [rax+20h]
SYMBOL_STACK_INDEX: 0
SYMBOL_NAME: fltmgr!GetContextFromStreamList+99
FOLLOWUP_NAME: MachineOwner
MODULE_NAME: fltmgr
IMAGE_NAME: fltmgr.sys
DEBUG_FLR_IMAGE_TIMESTAMP: 4a5bc11f
STACK_COMMAND: .cxr 0xfffff88003840940 ; kb
FAILURE_BUCKET_ID: X64_0x3B_fltmgr!GetContextFromStreamList+99
BUCKET_ID: X64_0x3B_fltmgr!GetContextFromStreamList+99
Followup: MachineOwner
---------
If you are overclocking any hardware, please stop. - Caused by your AVG antivirus software.
Use the remover tool from AVG - Download tools and utilities to remove AVG and replace it with Microsoft Security Essentials - Free Antivirus for Windows to run with Windows Firewall.
- Probably also caused by AVG... We will not know until it is removed.
- Possible causes are Memory problems... Corrupted hard disk system files... Corrupted System Files... Lack of Windows updates... Drivers... AVG...
- Run the boot version of Memtest86+ paying close attention to Parts 2 and 3 of the tutorial. Also, in case Memtest86+ misses anything and comes up with no errors, run the extended version of the Windows Memory Diagnostics Tool for at least five passes. These you may want to run overnight since they take a long time to complete (run them an hour before bed each of the next two nights and check before going to sleep that they are still running).
- Run Disk Check with both boxes checked for all HDDs and with Automatically fix file system errors checked for all SSDs. Post back your logs for the checks after finding them using Check Disk (chkdsk) - Read Event Viewer Log
- Run SFC /SCANNOW Command - System File Checker up to three times to fix all errors. Post back if it continues to show errors after the third run or if the first run comes back with no integrity violations.
- Update to SP1
Download Details - Microsoft Download Center - System Update Readiness Tool for Windows 7 (KB947821) [August 2011] Download Details - Microsoft Download Center - System Update Readiness Tool for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB947821) [August 2011] Steps to follow before you install Windows 7 Service Pack 1 from the Microsoft Download Center Service Pack 1 Download site Links to Service Pack 1 (SP1) and preparation for SP1 courtesy of JMH
Install all remaining updates through Windows Updates once SP1 is installed.
- Please remove Daemon Tools, as it uses a driver called dtsoftbus01.sys that is known to cause BSODs.
I prefer TotalMounter as my CD/DVD virtualization software as it allows me to burn images to a virtual CD/DVD if I just want an ISO file instead of a disc, and it is free.
Many use MagicISO - Convert BIN to ISO, Create, Edit, Burn, Extract ISO file, ISO/BIN converter/extractor/editor as well, which is also free.
- An underlying driver may be incompatible\conflicting with your system. Run Driver Verifier to find any issues. To run Driver Verifier, do the following:
a. Backup your system and user files
b. Create a system restore point
c. If you do not have a Windows 7 DVD, Create a system repair disc
d. Run Driver Verifier
If Windows cannot start in normal mode with driver verifier running, start in safe mode. If it cannot start in safe mode or normal mode, restore the system restore point using System Restore OPTION TWO. Thanks to zigzag3143 for contributing to the Verifier steps.
If you are unable to start Windows with all drivers being verified or if the blue screen crashes fail to create .dmp files, run them in groups of 5 or 10 until you find a group that causes blue screen crashes and stores the blue screen .dmp files.
- Could be memory problems... system corruption... Corrupted hard disk system files... Lack of Windows updates... Daemon Tools... AVG...
Thanks to Dave76 for help understanding possible causes. |