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Windows 7: Numerous BSOD playing games, recently error 0xd1

30 Jun 2012   #51
lian9

Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit
 
 

After replacing the PSU, taking out the 7850 and setting it to stock 3.4 it failed OCCT after 2 seconds. Then I ran it again and it passed, ran it again and failed after 30 seconds. I put it back to default settings with turbo boost on and it failed after a few seconds/mintues sometimes passed as well. The graphs look pretty much the same as before. It's usually a different core every time.

I have to ask, how reliable is OCCT, really? It seems to be the most unreliable part of all this troubleshooting. If the cpu/mobo sucks, shouldn't it just fail everytime? Why does it pass sometimes and fail almost immediatly others? Is OCCT not able to deal with z77 boards or ivy bridge?

Assuming I have to replace my mobo, I figure I'll add a detail about that. I haven't had any noticeable problems with it however at start up dr. Debug flashes a few times, then turns off, just like in this video (except numbers are different):
ASRock P67 Extreme4 Boot - YouTube
Not sure if that's normal, couldn't find any info on it.
thanks


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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30 Jun 2012   #52
Dave76

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ult x64 - SP1/ Windows 8 Pro x64
 
 

Sorry to hear your results are not any better.

You have raised some good questions.
I'll list some links from a 'OCCT Z77 motherboard' search.

Intel Z77 Motherboard Review with Ivy Bridge - ASRock, ASUS, Gigabyte, and MSI
Quote:
Voltage Readings

Using OCCT we monitor the voltage change of the motherboard under load. This represents the direct correlation between the Load Line Calibration and how the processor/motherboard deals with voltage requests while under load. This is not to be confused with the quality of power delivery, but more an indication of how aggressive the default LLC settings are on a motherboard.

The CPU voltage at load for the ASRock board seems to vary more than the other boards in this review, which may be a result of the price difference. Nevertheless, this is not a series of massive jumps to be concerned over.
The graph in this link looks similar to yours, the massive jumps comment leads me to your Vcore spikes when your system is at idle.
As mentioned here the AsRock handling of voltage is not that good, a questionable PSU will make it worse.
If your motherboard is slightly worse than the average this could be causing the OCCT crashes.

This article uses OCCT and other testing apps, and OCCT appears to be running fine on the i7 3770K and Z77 Extreme 4 motherboard.


Seems like you're not the only one having issues.
**Official** ASRock Z77 Discussion/Owners Club - Page 66
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkline

Just finished new build with Z77 Extreme 4 and 3570k a few days ago.Tested briefly with OCCT. 4.4 OC LLC Level 3.Temps looked good 71c.
Installed Saphire HD7850 yesterday and my card is not being recognised.Doesn't show up in device manager.I've tried both PCI slots.
Currently on 1.30 BIOS
Has anyone experienced this with this board and graphics card or another card maybe?Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated?
alot of people(inlcuding myself) had issues with getting the board running on your gpu. try updating bios trough onboard i eventually got mine working in the second pci-e slot without updating bios but only after alot of reboots
Read some posts about this board having issues with Vcore voltages drooping or jumping, seems to be a known issue.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
30 Jun 2012   #53
smarteyeball

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lian9 View Post

I have to ask, how reliable is OCCT, really? It seems to be the most unreliable part of all this troubleshooting.
Good question. I personally don't use it - I use Intel Burn Test for 'quick' vcore tests and Prime95 27.7 for long term stability testing. (Authors site Make sure you D/l the x64 version)

However, the fact that you were having issues in game still highlights a h/w issue. I didn't bother recommending a different app since OCCT is pretty much based on the libraries IBT uses.

►IBT 10 runs on maximum (Presuming it passes. And watch the temps with this one)
►Prime95, you have several choices:

Small FFT - focuse on the CPU
Large FFT Adds a lot of RAM into the mix.
Blend (or torture test) - This is typically the one you run for about 8-12hrs. It's a mixture of small and large FFTs.

Also, there is an option in the menu for 'round off error checking'; enable this.

If either of these tests fail with the new PSU, no GPU and at stock - I would call it a day on the mobo.

(I'd bet the 7850 is probably fine too, but leave it out for now)


*

Does the mobo restart itself after it turns off, or does it require a manual restart again?

(some mobos - usually when overclocked though, 'turn off - then turn themselves back on'. But it's definitely something to add to the RMA description. )



(As you've discovered, trouble shooting is a long process of elimination.

There are a multitude of potential causes so the real issue is not always apparent. On the plus side though, you've now got a superior PSU and have taken a crash course in h/w trouble shooting. Once the frustration passes and everything is smooth as butter - there will come a sense of satisfaction after you finally nail it )
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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01 Jul 2012   #54
lian9

Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit
 
 

It didn't pass IBT.

Is there a good guide for replacing the motherboard? What do I do after I install it, should I do a clean install windows? I know I'll probably have to reactivate my windows license.

Will the stuff on my hard drives still remain? I have microsoft office on the SSD and I moved some folders like My Documents/My Downloads/etc. to the HDD to save SSD space. If it would make things much smoother/less buggy, I'm fine totally wiping the HDD and/or SSD, however, I'm not sure how to properly totally wipe a HDD or SSD.

Also, does reinstalling windows wear out the SSD?

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "does the mobo restart itself after it turns off."

And even though it seems unusual for a CPU to fail, if the new mobo doesn't fix anything, then does that mean I need a new CPU? Although I looked up CPU failure symptoms and if it was a problem I don't think my computer would even run.

Thanks!

edit: Got this as a replacement, hopefully it will be good. Fortunately they'll let me return it if it doesn't fix anything.
ASUS - Motherboards- ASUS P8Z77-V LX
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Jul 2012   #55
lian9

Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit
 
 

Forgot to add:
Yesterday, I switched the computer to a different outlet in the off chance that it would fix the problem. It didn't, but when I switched the computer back to the original outlet and turned it on, there was a bsod just before the login screen at windows. I attached the file, this is the first time I've had a bsod on startup and it hasn't happened since so maybe it's an anomaly, but perhaps it will point to something.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Jul 2012   #56
smarteyeball

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lian9 View Post
It didn't pass IBT.
Not surprising tbh.

Quote:
Is there a good guide for replacing the motherboard?
I don't know of any step by step guides to cleanse an OS (especially for your board).


Quote:
What do I do after I install it, should I do a clean install windows?
Typically a fresh installation is best.

To 'cleanse an OS' for a new mobo, you need to remove all apps/drivers for devices on the motherboard ie USB etc. Also you need to remove all chipset drivers through device manager which can be tricky unless you know exactly what to remove. Unfortunately there is no add/remove 'chipset driver'.

You can attempt to cleanse the OS, physically replace the board, install the new mobo drivers+chipset and hope for the best, but personally I find there's always a chance of gremlin or two rearing it's head down the track.

One thing worth mentioning though - thermal paste. As a general rule, whenever you remove the heatsink from the CPU you should clean the CPU and the base of the cooler and then replace the thermal paste. Otherwise airpockcets, dust etc can get in and seriously degrade your cooling performance. You've already removed the cooler once - doing it again when physically swapping boards without replacing the paste might be pushing it.



Quote:
I know I'll probably have to reactivate my windows license.
If it doesn't work online, via phone is the next option. Most of it's automated iirc and you simply follow the prompts. There 'should' be an option along the longs of h/w replacement.

At worse, you speak to someone and tell them that your h/w failed. The same might have to be done when re-installing and re-activating office. Alternatively, don't enter a key when re-installing Windows. This will give you time to test your new set up.

Quote:
Will the stuff on my hard drives still remain? I have microsoft office on the SSD and I moved some folders like My Documents/My Downloads/etc. to the HDD to save SSD space. If it would make things much smoother/less buggy, I'm fine totally wiping the HDD and/or SSD, however, I'm not sure how to properly totally wipe a HDD or SSD.
If you don't format the drive - it will remain. If you do format, it will be wiped. However the best bet would be to format and start from scratch.

If your My Documents etc is on the mechanical drive, there is no need to format that drive. After you freshly install the OS to the SSD, you can reset all the links to point back to the existing folders on the HDD. Just make sure the drive letters are all the same.

So back up your folders, Office save locations and your C:\Users\<YOU> folder. Your Users folder can be 'mined' for data like your browser settings, other files like save games etc. It can you up and running quicker.

Alternatively you can simply re-install Windows without formatting, but this will leave you with a Windows.old installation which can cause some links to apps to not work 'quite right' any more as well as taking up valuable space.

Quote:
Also, does reinstalling windows wear out the SSD?
No. It's no more wearing than daily use. During re-installation you'll delete the partition and Windows will create and perform a quick format of the drive. Never perform a 'full format' on a SSD however. But you shouldn't need to worry about that.

Quote:
I'm not sure what you mean when you say "does the mobo restart itself after it turns off."
You physically turn machine on once, it starts, turns off by itself and then restarts again by itself vs It turns off and stays off.

Quote:
And even though it seems unusual for a CPU to fail, if the new mobo doesn't fix anything, then does that mean I need a new CPU? Although I looked up CPU failure symptoms and if it was a problem I don't think my computer would even run.
If the new mobo doesn't fix anything - we swear. A lot

But I sincerely doubt there's anything wrong physically wrong with it.



Quote:
edit: Got this as a replacement, hopefully it will be good.
Unless that's a dud as well - hopefully you'll be up and running again in no time


Basically the best method to avoid wasting space and avoiding issues is to quick format the OS drive and start from scratch.

► Back up all your save locations and C:\Users folder (anything you want to keep that's on your SSD)

► Swap the motherboards. (new thermal paste at same time preferably.)

► Run the Windows installation disk

(When it comes to the installation options, select your SSD drive/partition with the existing OS installation and delete that partition. This will leave unallocated space which Windows will reinstall to. By default it will perform a quick format when creating a new partition.)

► Skip the online activation/key entering during setup. (Gives you more time to test your new setup without worrying about activation etc)

► Once installed, start setting up your OS; ie installing the Asus chipset drivers, USB etc drivers. Update BIOS if one is available.

► Cross bloody fingers it all worked out
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Jul 2012   #57
Dave76

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ult x64 - SP1/ Windows 8 Pro x64
 
 

Good post smarteyeball, can't think of much to add.
You should update the BIOS to version 0610, 'Improve system stability' is mentioned in the last two updates.
Download all the motherboard drivers from the Asus site, don't use the CD that comes with the motherboard they are always old drivers.

Your last crash was similar to the previous ones: STOP 0x0000003B: SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION
Usual causes: System service, Device driver, graphics driver, ?memory

Code:
SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION (3b)
An exception happened while executing a system service routine.
Arguments:
Arg1: 00000000c0000005, Exception code that caused the bugcheck
Arg2: fffff80002e7d85c, Address of the instruction which caused the bugcheck
Arg3: fffff880084e1aa0, Address of the context record for the exception that caused the bugcheck
Arg4: 0000000000000000, zero.
EXCEPTION_CODE: (NTSTATUS) 0xc0000005 - The instruction at 0x%08lx referenced memory at 0x%08lx. The memory could not be %s.
IMAGE_NAME:  ntkrnlmp.exe
FAILURE_BUCKET_ID:  X64_0x3B_nt!_??_::FNODOBFM::_string_+43609
From your System event log:
Code:
Event[996]:
  Log Name: System
  Source: Service Control Manager
  Date: 2012-06-30T18:57:59.202
  Event ID: 7026
  Task: N/A
  Level: Error
  Opcode: N/A
  Keyword: Classic
  User: N/A
  User Name: N/A
  Computer: ComputerG
  Description: 
The following boot-start or system-start driver(s) failed to load: 
Avgldx64 - AVG AVI Loader Driver
Are you using AVG AntiVirus?
Don't see the usual drivers loaded.
After the new motherboard and OS are installed, use MSE for a week or two just to keep the AV compatibility issue out of the mix. If everything is running well you can install a different AV.
Microsoft Security Essentials*- Free Antivirus for Windows
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Jul 2012   #58
Britton30
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Ultimate X64 SP1
 
 

Here is one video guide.

THIS LINK has several more videos on the subject.

In my opinion NEVER, EVER, re-use thermal paste for any reason. It doesn't cost much and you're assured of maximum cooling for your particular setup. Use some rubbing alcohol to remove the old thermal stuff, I prefer the 91% isopropyl variety myself, it cleans better.
Just to emphasize what smartyeyeball said.

Some suggestions if you've not swapped a mobo before. Install the CPU and cooler, RAM, and HDD data cables before you slip it into the case. Power it up before committing to the case too. Here's pics of how I did it, the mobo boxes are the "test bench" and I had 2 PSU to use. You can use the one in your case if the cables can reach the 20/24 main power, and EPS 12V CPU power connectors. If not take it out, only 4 screws. Don't connect anything at first except for a graphics card if you don't have on-board graphics. If it will POST, then switch it off and hook up your mouse, keyboard, graphics card, and a CD drive if you wish and see if you can boot into Windows. If so, to the case Batman!
NOTE: do not lay the mobo on the anti static bag it is shipped in, the outside of them are conductive.
Attachment 219288

If you can't connect the case power switch, short the two pins on the board's PWR_SW for an instant to power it on.
Attachment 219289
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Jul 2012   #59
lian9

Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit
 
 

Thanks guys for those informative posts, they were very helpful. I installed the motherboard and did a clean install of windows on the SSD. I've ran OCCT (v4.3) fine without any problems now so it seems like the motherboard issue is fixed. I'll test some games soon to see if this has fixed everything but I'm going to go through what I did so far just in case I did something wrong or need to do something extra.

Put in mobo and installed windows 7 (it has been verified). I also installed MS Security Essentials.

I got the motherboard drivers from this site: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. -Support- Drivers and Download P8Z77-V LX
The ones I installed were the chipset, audio, vga, lan, usb and sata. I did not upgrade the BIOS, though. Nothing installed from utilities yet and not sure I should even bother.

Installed the graphics card drivers 12.6. When I start up the computer the screen is underscanned and it fixes itself to normal after about 30 seconds. Also, whenever I start up the computer, I get a message saying "kdbsync.exe has stopped working" and I just close out of it. I looked around and it seems like there ways to fix this stuff but I figured I'd mention it anyways, although it's probably just a problem w/ amd drivers and is hopefuly isolated from the problems I've been having.

Then I put in the HDD and moved all the user folders except Contacts from the SSD to the HDD. However, even though all the games are still on the HDD and playable, they won't show up in the start menu. So if I search for "diablo" nothing comes up. Additionally, if I go to add/remove programs from control panel, none of the games or programs on the hdd show up. Should I just reinstall all the games so they show up like they used to or is there a better way? Assuming I should reinstall a game, is simply deleting the game from the HDD sufficient?

That's pretty much it for now. I'll update on how well everything works. Thanks again so much for your help so far, guys.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Jul 2012   #60
Dave76

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ult x64 - SP1/ Windows 8 Pro x64
 
 

Glad to hear the new motherboard is working well for you.

Asus motherboard and Corsair PSU?
If you don't have any issues in a week then you can install the AV of choice.

Good work on the drivers.
Which BIOS version do you have?
Just keep it for now, if you have any issues that may be related to the BIOS you can consider updating it later.

Motherboard utilities are known to cause issues and crashes.
Highly recommended to not install them.
If you must try them, then install one at a time and run for several days to check for stability, if you start having problems then you know what the cause is.

kdbsync.exe is from the AMD 12.6 driver. If it's not causing any issues just leave it for now.
Several reports of this and seems to be nothing critical.

smarteyeball can tell you how to get the games linked or if you should re-install.

Let us know how your system is running and if you have any questions.
If no issues after a week, mark this thread 'Solved'.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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