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Windows 7: Various BSODs during startup and/or within early usage.

02 May 2013   #1

Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 7601 Multiprocessor Free Service Pack 1
Various BSODs during startup and/or within early usage.


Recently Iíve been a variety of strange issues which usually result in bluescreens. It usually happens while Iím just browsing the internet or digging around in my files. My mouse freezes or lags behind a bit and I know within the next second, Iím about to get a bluescreen. It doesnít happen during any major games or running any major programs Ėbut I donít really get much of a chance to run anything big. The chance of this happening is higher just off a cold boot Ėwhen I start/use my computer for the first time during the day.

After the bluescreen, what happens next varies, such as (but not always):

Iíve had my computer have trouble to boot after getting the bluescreen: Press switch, fans spin up and nothing shows up on screen. Power off, try again, then it works. I suspect that if I try to power on right after powering off it has trouble. Waiting a bit longer (a few more seconds) and it seems okay.

It boots, but then my bios tells me my overclocking settings are bad and prompts me to set my bios settings back to default. This is a bit amusing/odd as I donít have anything overclocked and my bios settings are already default (with exception of the floppy drive turned off). I usually oblige anyways and reset everything to default.

Windows looks like it might load...the loading screen appears with the words ďwindowsĒ but the animated logo never appears. It just hangs here until I power off and try again.

It manages to boot in to windows, but after I type in my password, login, and get to my desktop, I get an instant bluescreen. Sometimes, I donít even get to type in my password. =_=

If I try safemode, sometimes I get in and it bluescreens after a short while. Or sometimes itíll bluescreen right away.

Windows repair attempts to repair for a long time before giving up (says it canít find anything wrong). It also prompts me to try system restore which has worked once in getting me back to my desktop...only to bluescreen again after a short time of usage.

Thingís Iíve done:

First, Iíve updated my video card drivers and ran windows update.

Tried to boot in to my other windows partition (winXP), it bluescreens as well.

I figure maybe itís hardware as I canít even make it in to windows some of the time and seems to happen to both win7 and xp, where I havenít touched my xp partition for a quite long time. So, I test my ram with memtest86+ and I get red errors. I have four sticks of ram, 1gb each so I pull each one out and test one by one. Each one passes after running for all ten tests. I also try different slots one at a time and donít see any issues. I try all four sticks together again and I get no issues. As a side note: I also make sure to plug them in, in the same order and facing direction (just to be consistent). The system is just over five years old and all sticks of ram were from the same batch, so I doubt it is ram compatibility errors (though at this point I really donít know what to look at).

Iíve also reinstalled windows7.

At this point, I should mentioned that this isnít the first time Iíve encountered the above, but after pulling my ram and putting it back in as well as reinstalling windows, it seemed to have solved the issue a month or so back.

But it seems the problem has reared its ugly head again and this time reseating my ram and going through memtest does nothing. I donít really want to reinstall windows again (both of these, I suspect it was just a Ďmagical temporary fixí anyway). And when I do get to my desktop every so often and can use my computer, Iím afraid itíll bluescreen so Iím hesitant to do any work on it. And it happens to be my main working computer. =/

I canít seem to find any pattern and I donít really know what to try next so here I am. Iím hoping someone can shed some light on what could be the cause, so at least Iíll know if I need a new computer or not. =b

In the attached files, there are only five minidumps which are the ones that happen when I reach the desktop. But Iíve seen more then five; there are a few bluescreens I get that donít seem to Ďdumpí.

My System SpecsSystem Spec

03 May 2013   #2

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Home Premium 64Bit

I'm thinking you need a new PC

Please run these tests and report back the results

1. SFC /scannow to check windows for corruption - SFC /SCANNOW Command - System File Checker
2. Disk check for errors on the hard drive - Disk Check
3. Troubleshoot applications by a clean boot - Troubleshoot Application Conflicts by Performing a Clean Startup
4. Memtest86+ paying close attention to part 3 - RAM - Test with Memtest86+.

If you know which RAM stick is causing errors then remove it and tell us if it still BSOD's.

Hard Drive/Storage

Post a screen shot using Crystal Disk Info: CrystalDiskInfo Standard Edition

How to Upload and Post a Screenshot and File in Seven Forums

Make a hard drive test from the hard drive manufacturers website: Hard Drive Diagnostic Procedure

Have you checked for BIOS and other firmware updates?
BIOS Version/Date	American Megatrends Inc. 0603, 03/07/2007
Peruse these links and tell us if they help:
Thermal Paste and How To Use It | techPowerUp
Avoid Static Damage to Your PC | PCWorld
Power Supply Information and Selection - Tech Support Forum
Basic computer troubleshooting
How To Clear CMOS
How to clean your PC of dust and dirt
How to clean a computer

Have a read through this:
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by TVeblen View Post
What you are experiencing is a TDR event (Timeout Detection & Recovery). There are many causes of these events, mostly hardware related. Please read my checklist below and see if you can diagnose your particular cause.

A couple of things jump out immediately. Your specs say you have 5GB of RAM, an odd number. That suggests that you added some RAM at some point. Mismatched or failing RAM modules can cause TDRs. You might want to test those sticks one at a time in Slot 1 before anything else. RAM problems can explain some of your other issues too.

Looking at some of your other posts I see you are running dual monitors also. This could be exposing a defect in your 9500GT that is triggering the TDRs. You should test with only one monitor attached to see if this is the case.

You are running lots of stuff on that box, so I would be as deliberate as possible in doing the diagnostic work.

"Display driver xxxxx stopped responding and was recovered"

Timeout Detection & Recovery (TDR) = "Display Driver Stopped Responding and was Recovered" is a useful feature that started in Vista and is also in W7 that allows the OS to try and recover from a video timeout so that the system does not crash to a bluescreen. Symptoms included a screen flash with the TDR message appearing one or more times or the screen blinking out to black. If the system cannot recover it will crash (Stop Error 116 typical). The issue is that the video card is not responding as expected. The solution is in the: why?

There is no one-size-fits-all solution to TDR errors. But the problem is usually found in the local environment (your computer). Finding the cause is a matter of checking every possible cause and uncovering the culprit through a simple process of elimination. By methodically running down a checklist of diagnostic procedures you should be able to find the cause and can correct it.

There are numerous reports of hardware solutions to TDR's. The most common are:
  • Poor Cooling
  • Problems with the power supply
  • Overclocking Issues
  • Bad System memory or incorrect memory timings
  • Defective PC Components

The order you do the diagnostics is not all that important. My personal strategy is to do the cheap & easy stuff first, the cheap & harder stuff next, and then the stuff that costs last. But whatever order you do it in you need to check or confirm the following:

Poorly written software and games will cause TDRs. But if this were the case it would affect lots of people, not just a few. Check the game's website & forums for patches and tips.
See if other people in the forums are having the same problem and if they were able to solve it and how.
You could also be asking too much of your video card. Check to see if your video card is tested and recommended for the game/program. Test the game at reduced settings.

It helps if you can isolate the actions that trigger the TDR. Most often it will be an application using 3D graphics. But if the incidents occur constantly it would point more towards defective hardware. If it happens more specifically (just when running Game X) it points towards overheating, settings, software, or driver issues.

You need to eliminate the possibility that your computer has a global problem. You can use a program like Prime95 to stress test your system. Free Software - GIMPS
You can run the "Stress Test" for a few hours or overnight. This will not tell you what the problem is, but it is helpful to uncover any issues your system has with instability and cooling.

Running a video intensive game for hours can generate some serious heat and overheating will cause video errors. You can check your temps by looking at your BIOS readings or use a free program like Speedfan SpeedFan - Access temperature sensor in your computer .
A real easy test is to just pull the side panel(s) off your case (You can also blow a house fan directly into the open case) and see if the problem goes away or gets better. If it does then the issue is definitely overheating. If you are overheating you need to look at installing some cooling upgrades. You want to look at ventilating the case (more or bigger fans), Upgrade your case to a larger gaming case (lots of fans, water-cooling), etc.
There are free utilities like BurninTest PassMark BurnInTest software - PC Reliability and Load Testing that you can use to test your system's cooling capability. Caution is recommended using these types of programs.

Bad drivers happen and they can get corrupted. Before installing or reinstalling any video drivers first completely uninstall all video software and the drivers. (Some people say to run a cleaner program from safe mode, some say this is unnecessary). Never rely on the driver package to overwrite the old drivers. Also: Delete the video driver folder (ex: C:\NVIDIA) in Windows Explorer (or windows may install the same drivers again!).
After uninstalling the old drivers and rebooting Windows 7 will install it's own WDDM 1.1 driver. Check for the video problem while using the generic Windows driver.
You can then install the latest drivers for your card (or try older drivers).
See This Tutorial: Installing and updating drivers in 7

Look in Device Manager and make sure there are no problem devices (yellow ! icon). Correct these by loading the correct drivers or disable the problem device and see if the video problem goes away.

Reseat video card and memory modules. Make sure the contacts are clean. Check all the electrical connections.

In BIOS, check the listed voltages against the manufacturer recommended specs. Reset the voltages to factory defaults and see if the video problems disappear.

Memory errors can cause video problems. Run a program like Memtest86+ for at least 3 passes to see if there are any memory errors. Memtest86+ - Advanced Memory Diagnostic Tool .
You can also test for a bad memory module by installing one stick and testing, and then switch it out for the next stick, etc.

Overclocking can be a trial and error process. The clocks and/or multipliers you set or change for CPU, Memory, or GPU could be unstable. Eliminate this as a possibility by resetting these to their defaults to see if that clears the video problems. The simplest way to do this is to "Restore Bios Defaults", or Clear CMOS.

Some people have reported that by going into the video cards control panel and "down-clocking" the cards performance settings they were able to clear up the TDRs. Since W7 does not seem to tolerate any hiccups in the GPU, this would allow you to run a poor perforning card in the W7 enviroment.
So for instance, you could set the GPU clock from a 777 MHz factory setting to 750MHz, and the ram clock from a 1126MHz factory setting to 1050Mhz, or similar small change for your particular card.

Check for and install an updated BIOS, particularly if it says the newer BIOS corrects memory errors or bug fixes. You could also try loading the BIOS defaults.
While you are there, check the motherboard manufacturers forums to see if others are having issues with the same board.

Eliminate Power Management settings as a possible cause, especially if you are working with a laptop. These settings could be particularly important if the issue is in playing games.
Go to Control Panel > Hardware & Sound > Power Options. Under "Select a Power Plan" you will find that "Balanced" is the default setting.
At the bottom you will see a Down arrow next to "Show Additional Plans". Click that and select "High Performance". See if the TDR issue is affected.
Alternately, you can click "Change Plan Settings" next to the "Balanced" plan and change the setting to "Never" put the computer to sleep (This is the default on a desktop) and/or change when the display is turned off as a test.

You need to know that your power supply is delivering sufficient power. Power supply problems are the most common cause of video problems, especially using high end cards.
Check the power supply's amperage ratings. Be sure it has the ample amperage for your video card and the rest of the system.
Test the supply with multimeter to measure for a steady 12v to the card's power connectors. (The only true way to test a power supply would be to use the very expensive diagnostic equipment used in labs). But for us regular folks: I tested my power supply by hooking up my multimeter to the PCI-E connectors that I was using to power my video card (I used a spare pair from the power supply to run the card while I was testing). I then observed the meter while I used the computer, first watching the voltage, then the amps, to see if there was any drop-off or erratic behavior while booting or using the computer. My readings were rock solid. So I declared my power supply good.
Otherwise you need to replace the supply to eliminate this possibility. Or borrow one from another computer.

I suspect that a video card must perform flawlessly to operate in a Windows 7 environment and run the most recent games. If you tried all the above diagnostics and no problems were found then that leaves you with only one possibility: a defective video card. Some brands have the problem more consistently than others. You could check their forums for clues.
You could try your card in another computer running W7 to see if the problem goes along with the card.
You could try a different card in your computer. I bought an inexpensive card to use. My TDR's disappeared using a "lesser" card. Or borrow a card from another computer.
Otherwise RMA or replace the card.

TDR complaints have come from PC owners running virtually every PC configuration. They occur regardless of which video engine, manufacturer, driver, or system used. They are too numerous to write off as a random problem, but at the same time if people are getting their systems to run correctly using the same hardware and software that you are then it follows that your problem must be solvable.

More Info Here:
Timeout Detection and Recovery of GPUs through WDDM
NVIDIA Statement on TDR Errors - NVIDIA Forums
27116: ATIKMDAG has stopped responding error message
My System SpecsSystem Spec
03 May 2013   #3

Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 7601 Multiprocessor Free Service Pack 1

Hi koolkat77,
Thanks for reading my long post. =b

System File Checker didn't find anything wrong. The exact results are:
Beginning system scan. This process will take some time.
Beginning verification phase of system scan.
Verification 100% complete.
Windows Resource Protection did not find any integrity violations.
Disk checks also don't come up with anything either. I did check the bios if there was an update for issues, but all of the updates listed seem to just add support for new cpus for that motherboard. Didn't seem relevant so I didn't update. I couldn't find any evidence of issues though like mine.

When I run memtest86+, I just let it run from test 1 to 10 until it says something along the lines of "Pass complete, no errors found. Press esc to exit". Is this actually just one pass and I should let it run longer? One pass may not be a thorough " test" ?

I should also add that if I can make it through the first hour or so of normal usage, I *think* my system is fine for the day -I can play games, videos, browse the net, work, etc. Currently I've been using it for eight hours now. I guess one of the restarts managed to make it through all the 'hoops' and not crash? Could there be possibly something to do with a cold start when I turn on my computer the next day? I shall try more passes on memtest86+ tomorrow when there is an increased chance of these issues happening again.

I believe (hope) my hard drives are okay... Crystal Disk Info screenshots are attached and they seem fine. I have three physical drives, spread out over six letters. =b
My System SpecsSystem Spec

03 May 2013   #4

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Home Premium 64Bit

They look fine. Keep us posted of the rest of the steps.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 May 2013   #5

Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 7601 Multiprocessor Free Service Pack 1

Well, after some time, it seems my ram is okay. I tested each stick on it's own 4-5 passes in different slots and then all sticks together for 5 passes. This makes me doubt it is my ram. Hrm, not quite sure what else to look at. I've tried running a video card benchmark and it's worked fine as well. is windows after all.

Added my latest minidump.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 May 2013   #6

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Home Premium 64Bit

I think its your RAM. Have you seen part 3 of the tutorial?
*                                                                             *
*                        Bugcheck Analysis                                    *
*                                                                             *

Use !analyze -v to get detailed debugging information.

BugCheck 1A, {41289, 75001, 97, ce000000075015}

Probably caused by : ntkrnlmp.exe ( nt! ?? ::FNODOBFM::`string'+4a99 )

Followup: MachineOwner

0: kd> !analyze -v
*                                                                             *
*                        Bugcheck Analysis                                    *
*                                                                             *

    # Any other values for parameter 1 must be individually examined.
Arg1: 0000000000041289, The subtype of the bugcheck.
Arg2: 0000000000075001
Arg3: 0000000000000097
Arg4: 00ce000000075015

Debugging Details:

BUGCHECK_STR:  0x1a_41289



PROCESS_NAME:  SearchProtocol


LAST_CONTROL_TRANSFER:  from fffff80002b1d6dd to fffff80002ac6c00

fffff880`0729f978 fffff800`02b1d6dd : 00000000`0000001a 00000000`00041289 00000000`00075001 00000000`00000097 : nt!KeBugCheckEx
fffff880`0729f980 fffff800`02afab9a : 89700000`968ae005 fffffa80`05726330 00000000`00000a50 fffff8a0`0011f8b8 : nt! ?? ::FNODOBFM::`string'+0x4a99
fffff880`0729f9c0 fffff800`02a91b61 : fffffa80`045cab00 fffffa80`05f5a060 00000000`00000000 89700000`968ae005 : nt!MiGetPageProtection+0xaa
fffff880`0729fa00 fffff800`02a917fa : fffffa80`05726330 fffffa80`0601e060 fffffa80`0601e060 00000000`00075000 : nt!MiQueryAddressState+0x2b1
fffff880`0729fa50 fffff800`02da18d4 : fffff880`00000002 00000000`00076000 fffffa80`05726330 fffff880`00000000 : nt!MiQueryAddressSpan+0xaa
fffff880`0729fac0 fffff800`02ac5e93 : 00000000`00000a50 fffffa80`05f5a060 fffff880`0729fbf8 00000000`050be138 : nt!NtQueryVirtualMemory+0x382
fffff880`0729fbb0 00000000`76d8154a : 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 : nt!KiSystemServiceCopyEnd+0x13
00000000`050be118 00000000`00000000 : 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 00000000`00000000 : 0x76d8154a


nt! ?? ::FNODOBFM::`string'+4a99
fffff800`02b1d6dd cc              int     3


SYMBOL_NAME:  nt! ?? ::FNODOBFM::`string'+4a99

FOLLOWUP_NAME:  MachineOwner


IMAGE_NAME:  ntkrnlmp.exe


FAILURE_BUCKET_ID:  X64_0x1a_41289_nt!_??_::FNODOBFM::_string_+4a99

BUCKET_ID:  X64_0x1a_41289_nt!_??_::FNODOBFM::_string_+4a99

Followup: MachineOwner
Do a Clean Reinstall - Factory OEM Windows 7 if required.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 May 2013   #7

Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 7601 Multiprocessor Free Service Pack 1

Yes, I looked at part 3 "Part 3: If You Have Errors", but I can't get any of my sticks of ram to show up with any errors even after multiple passes right now. I kind of wish I could... then at least I have something to go on. Interestingly today my system was fine...but on the next day...who knows. I have reinstalled win7 from my original cd somewhat recently and would rather avoid doing it again, but I guess if the cause really is windows, then I'll have to. Just need to figure out a way of knowing the real cause. =/ I'll post back if/when it blue screens again if anything new pops up.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
05 May 2013   #8

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Home Premium 64Bit

My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 May 2013   #9

Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 7601 Multiprocessor Free Service Pack 1

Just when I thought maybe the worst of it was over...after a few days, I got two bluescreens, both within 10-15 mins of getting to the desktop. In between rebooting, the bios at one point said it didn't recognise my cpu. *_* Rebooting after it said that was okay though. Very...weird.

Attached are the two new dump files. What program can be used to read them?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 May 2013   #10

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Home Premium 64Bit

Here's what you have to install: BSOD Analysis - Getting Started
Here's a guide on how I do it: Debugging A BSOD - My way

I'll check your dumps and post what I think about it. I've also requested two of my hardware friends and a senior bsod analyst to take a look at your thread.
My System SpecsSystem Spec

 Various BSODs during startup and/or within early usage.

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