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Windows 7: random reboots without BSOD - sometimes several daily

01 May 2014   #21

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 X64 (Windows 8.1, Linux Mint, Windows XP and others in VM)
 
 

Also, please go into BIOS and give me the reading for the +12V, +5V and +3.3V. Also, please advise me what your sata controller is set to (IDE, AHCI, Raid) and what you have your Vcore set to. If you can, please install core temp and tell me what your VID is while running Prime and what your Vcore is during Prime from CPUz. Only run 1 temp monitoring program at a time.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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01 May 2014   #22

Windows 7 32bit Home Premium
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by essenbe View Post
tgfyhre, I'll try to assist you but first, I need you to do a few things for me. I need you to fill out your system specs for me in as much detail as possible. To see more of what we would like, you can click 'my system specs' at the bottom of this post to see mine. If you click the same thing at the bottom of your last post you will have a link to edit system specs. Fill it out with as much detail as possible including manufacturer, model and size if you can. That will help us to help you and will always be available to us in any post you make. If you need help this will help you System Info - See Your System Specs

If you don't already have it, please download and install CPUz, Please post a screenshot (Screenshots and Files - Upload and Post in Seven Forums) of the CPU, Mainboard, Memory and SPD tabs. On the SPD tabs you can select each dim slot from a dropdown list in the upper left. I only need the slots that are populated.
Ok I'll get going on this. I already have a recent version of CPUz installed, but I'll update it anyways just because. Meanwhile, I just wanted to mention that I finished my memtest86+ earlier this evening. I let it run for 8 full passes over 5 hours. No errors. I exited out when it started the 9th pass. So 4 hours of Prime95 yesterday, plus furmark at the same time, and 5 hours of memtest today, with no issues. I haven't had a reboot since last Friday, when I disabled hyperthreading in my Asus bios.

Thanks for offering to help.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 May 2014   #23

Windows 7 32bit Home Premium
 
 

Okay. Here's some info:

In BIOS:

+12V - 12.025 V
+5V - 5.070 V
+3.3V - 2.976 V

Sata controller - AHCI

Vcore - 1.22500

VID is greyed out for me in the latest Core Temp. While running Prime95 my Vcore is 1.232 V according to CPUz.

Here are the CPUz screenshots you requested. Thanks again for looking at this for me.


Attached Images
      
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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02 May 2014   #24

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 X64 (Windows 8.1, Linux Mint, Windows XP and others in VM)
 
 

OK, ATX standards for your PSU is +/- 5%. It looks like your 3.3V is pretty low, it should be at least 3.135. Your ram is running at 1400 MHz with timings of 8-8-8-24. It is 1600MHz ram and the XMP values show 9-9-9-24 and 1.65V. You have a spd value of 8-8-8-22 but the frequency for those timings should be slightly under 1200MHz. I would suggest you set your ram to run by the SPD values. It should run either way but you will need to either lower the frequency at the timings you have now, or change the timings to the XMP values of 9-9-9-24 and set the frequency to 1600. But, whichever you choose to do, be certain to set the voltage manually. If you choose the 8-8-8-24 @1200 set the Dram Voltage at 1.5V. If you set the ram at 9-9-9-24 at 1600MHz, set the Dram Voltage at 1.65V. Your board should have an XMP setting which will set it for you, if you prefer. But I would still set the voltage manually.

I don't think the ram is causing the specific problem you are having, but it is running out of spec right now. I'm not sure what settings your board has, but I would check the "C" states. Make sure they are enabled if you want to use sleep. The C states have to do with sleep, but at least on my board they will affect the overclock you have.

Disabling hyperthreading, it is normal that the temps would drop 10C. As a try, unplug your computer from your UPS and plug it straight into a wall socket. The Battery Backup can cause similar problems if it starts malfunctioning. I've seen it happen several times. You can leave the hyperthreading off if you want to, but it just seems like a waste of money to me. A lot of overclockers do, mainly because of the heat reduction and the fact that in many cases it takes less vcore with it off.

If none of these suggestions work, I know you don't want to, but I would set everything to defaults until you get it stable. As you can see from the bottom of my signature, I am not averse to overclocking and am overclocked right now. But, I have done this long enough to know that unless you are stable at stock, no overclock will ever be stable. Also, when you start having issues, it is always best to go back to stock, stabilize it and start over. You already know your OC settings, so redoing them should not be difficult. Most boards allow you to save a profile so you can just go back and load that profile again. There are also a lot of other things that can cause a computer to shut down other than the ones you listed. A dead short being the most common.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 May 2014   #25

Windows 7 32bit Home Premium
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by essenbe View Post
OK, ATX standards for your PSU is +/- 5%. It looks like your 3.3V is pretty low, it should be at least 3.135. Your ram is running at 1400 MHz with timings of 8-8-8-24. It is 1600MHz ram and the XMP values show 9-9-9-24 and 1.65V. You have a spd value of 8-8-8-22 but the frequency for those timings should be slightly under 1200MHz. I would suggest you set your ram to run by the SPD values. It should run either way but you will need to either lower the frequency at the timings you have now, or change the timings to the XMP values of 9-9-9-24 and set the frequency to 1600. But, whichever you choose to do, be certain to set the voltage manually. If you choose the 8-8-8-24 @1200 set the Dram Voltage at 1.5V. If you set the ram at 9-9-9-24 at 1600MHz, set the Dram Voltage at 1.65V. Your board should have an XMP setting which will set it for you, if you prefer. But I would still set the voltage manually.

I don't think the ram is causing the specific problem you are having, but it is running out of spec right now. I'm not sure what settings your board has, but I would check the "C" states. Make sure they are enabled if you want to use sleep. The C states have to do with sleep, but at least on my board they will affect the overclock you have.

Disabling hyperthreading, it is normal that the temps would drop 10C. As a try, unplug your computer from your UPS and plug it straight into a wall socket. The Battery Backup can cause similar problems if it starts malfunctioning. I've seen it happen several times. You can leave the hyperthreading off if you want to, but it just seems like a waste of money to me. A lot of overclockers do, mainly because of the heat reduction and the fact that in many cases it takes less vcore with it off.

If none of these suggestions work, I know you don't want to, but I would set everything to defaults until you get it stable. As you can see from the bottom of my signature, I am not averse to overclocking and am overclocked right now. But, I have done this long enough to know that unless you are stable at stock, no overclock will ever be stable. Also, when you start having issues, it is always best to go back to stock, stabilize it and start over. You already know your OC settings, so redoing them should not be difficult. Most boards allow you to save a profile so you can just go back and load that profile again. There are also a lot of other things that can cause a computer to shut down other than the ones you listed. A dead short being the most common.
Thanks for looking at this.

For the memory settings, there's a reason why they are set the way they are. I set that way back when I was doing the overclock, based on some info I gathered in some forums. The problem is, my BIOS is very picky about what I can put in for numbers:

Under DRAM frequency - I can hit enter and I get a drop-down list. Right now DDR3-1403MHz is selected. The next option under that is DDR3-1754MHz. There is no DDR3-1600MHz.

For the DRAM bus voltage - the incememnt allowed by my BIOS is 0.02v. I have to adjust it using the +/- keys. It jumps from 1.64 where it is currently to 1.66. If 1.66 is displayed it turns red and I get a warning that permanent damage could occur to the CPU if I set it higher than 1.65. But it won't let me set it to 1.65. If I manually key in 1.65, it immediately jumps up to 1.66 and turns red again.

The timing is set to 8-8-8-24. I can adjust that to 9-9-9-24 but it doesn't change how I can adjust the other settings, so I left it all alone with no changes. I have no idea now why it's set to 8-8-8-24 but either it did that itself or I followed some advice back when I did the overclock. So it's set this way because my BIOS won't let me change it to your suggestions. Unless I'm missing something.

My APC UPS battery backup runs a monthly test and it always passes. Should I worry about the UPS? I wasn't aware the UPS could cause reboots like this. Sometimes when it goes into a reboot it continues in a loop of reboots until I shut it down and let it rest for a few moments.

I'd prefer to keep hyperthreading on of course but the temperature in my top floor apartment can get very warm even now, and very hot in the summer. So the temps when gaming can get pretty scary with hyperthreading on. I like the drop in temp - it makes me feel a bit better that I have a little more room before hitting critical temps. I figure the overclock is giving me more benefit than if I lose the overclock and re-enable hyperthreading. I guess I'll just wait this out? It hasn't rebooted since last Friday and it just seems funny that it hasn't rebooted since I disabled hyperthreading. I wish at this point I could just build a new system but money is very tight and I can't do it - I need this to last me the year.

If you have any other ideas about my memory running out of spec let me know - I just don't see how I can get those numbers you recommended because the BIOS won't let me. Maybe the restrictions are partly because of other settings for the CPU overclock? This was my first overclock and it took a bit of tweaking to get it to stick but once I did it's been great all this time, until things started acting up recently. I don't really have the confidence to start experimenting again with that - I'd have to start reading up all over again about this chip and I'd rather not even bother. I'll see how this continues to run. Thanks again for the advice!

By the way, is the 3.3v a cause for concern with my PSU? Does it sound like the PSU is ok based on my stress tests yesterday and today? Can a power supply have "spells" where it reboots and then goes for weeks being okay before acting up again? I thought once a power supply started to go it would just go?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 May 2014   #26

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 X64 (Windows 8.1, Linux Mint, Windows XP and others in VM)
 
 

It is common, especially with the cheaper PSU's that over time the capacitors get weaker and the PSU will not put out as much power as they did when new. The lower end power supplies also do not have the safety mechanisms as the quality ones and can put out a power surge when they go that will take out other components such as motherboards, CPUs and other components. That is why I always recommend to everyone building a computer to never save money on power supplies. Buy a quality power supply such as Seasonic, XFX, Corsair, Antec or a few others. The next power supply I buy will probably be a Seasonic. Of that list I just mentioned, most of those companies PSU's are built by Seasonic. All of the quality ones rarely lose power due to aging of capacitors and have safeguards built in to help stop a surge that can take out a whole computer. A PSU is the heart of your system. Everything depends on the PSU for proper voltage. Also remember that when a computer starts up, it is extremely stressful on the power supply. It is sitting there doing nothing. When you push the power button to start, Everything in the computer all of a sudden demands power from the PSU. It goes from a dead stop to 100% instantly. A weak PSU sometimes can't handle that load. But, after a few attempts it gets warmer and will be able to start. I'm not saying that is what is happening with you, but the possibility is there.

Another thing you have to remember is that your PSU depends on the UPS and not the wall current for proper current. All the power from the wall goes through the UPS and it determines how much power to send to the PSU. Also, I have been told by others who know more about UPS backups that a UPS will only put our it's rated power. So, For instance if you have a 1000W PSU running off of an 800W UPS, The ups will only allow 800W to be delivered to the PSU. That 1000W PSU will never put out 1000W because it can't. I've known of a couple of people who have had to return UPS systems because they needed a larger one to be able to properly power your system. Now, if that happens and the UPS begins to age and have power fluctuations it will put out less power than it should, and could have short periods of no power. I'm not saying, again, that is your problem but it is also a possibility. Just connecting your computer to the wall would answer that question.

Your answer to can a PSU do that is yes it can and the UPS can do the same. But in your case I would bypass the ups just for a test to check that out. if you continue to have the same problems, you have ruled that possibility out. Very simple and free test. PSU's also can do most anything. Some will blow up and some will just start to act up a little and get worse and worse until they quit and some will go out with one big surge of power.

As far as your ram goes, I prefer not to overclock my ram. Some people do it and are able to have ram that can do it and without problems. I'm not sure exactly how your chipset works, but many like mine and most AMD systems, if I raise the FSB it will also raise the frequency of the ram as well as the CPU. My chipset is much different than yours, so it will work different. I know years ago I had another system and to get my ram to run at 1600 I had to raise my FSB by 20% to get it there, which also overclocked the CPU, so a lot of voltage had to be adjust it to stabilize it. My current system, the FSB (bus speed) also will increase ram and voltage to the PCIe slots, meaning it increases the voltage to the GPU as well as the hard drives. I don't believe your system does, but it would be worth you looking into exactly what it does do, besides overclock the CPU. It is usually tied to something else. I have always said that overclocking is an art and not a science. Every component is affected with what you change in bios. So, the trick is to be able to change bios and keep every other component stable because everything you change to affect the CPU also affects other components.

As I stated before, I am an overclocker and am not adverse to overclocking, but every time I start having trouble, and you always do at times, I reset my bios to defaults and run all the tests I can to ensure it is stable at stock. Then I go back to the overclock. I do that because I know that over time components age and react different than they used to. No system will ever have a stable overclock unless it is perfectly stable at stock, period. I know I just had to do that with my system and ended up having to give my CPU more voltage than I had to do for almost a year with the same overclock. It happens. So, just because you have an overclock that has been stable for years, does not mean it will stay stable. If you are going to overclock, you will always have times you have to start over or go back in to make adjustments. Never use software to overclock, always do it through bios, with you making the changes. If you go to Overclock.net They have guides to almost every board there is. And what they say in their official guides are right on the money. But, all components are not made equal, so they can't tell you how much voltage your CPU needs, they can tell you how to set up your bios and what the voltage ranges are for every setting and will tell you how to adjust them and what they do. You have to do the testing and see what voltage everything needs. The first thing I always tell people about overclocking is, if you can not afford to replace it, don't overclock it. Accept the fact that overclocking puts stress on almost every component in the machine and will cause them to wear faster than normal. That stress can cause weaker components to fail. Everyone who are overclocking enthusiasts and serious about it will tell you that. On my system I can run Prime for hours at 5 GHz and it will not overheat and is absolutely stable. I could run 5 GHz 24/7 if I wanted to, but I don't. I run mine at 4.6Ghz 24/7 because that is fast enough, puts less strain on my system and it will run prime for 24 hours and never get over 68C, an my max is 105C. Meaning it is perfectly stable, puts reasonable stress on my system, and I don't have to worry about temps, no matter what I do with it. I can play any game and never get over 55C. That's what you should do. Find a stable, reasonable overclock and leave it there and don't put undue stress on your system and you will be fine. Just remember you will always have to make adjustments or go back to stock and start over. Components age and require different settings.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 May 2014   #27

Windows 7 32bit Home Premium
 
 

Thanks for all the good info. I checked my UPS and the max power output is 865 watts so I'm good as far as the wattage goes at least. I didn't know that a power supply is restricted by the max output of a UPS though so thanks for telling me that - I will need to consider that when I do my next build.

I'd like to try the XMP setting for the memory in the BIOS but I remember going through that back when I did my overclock, and I seem to remember the system wouldn't boot if XMP was set to auto - it must not have liked the overclock I put in or something. The only way I could get it to boot was with manual settings with XMP disabled, but I stress-tested it so it seemed okay. I wonder if it is like you said - maybe the age of the power supply or the CPU is causing the overclock to be less stable. I didn't know the stability of the overclock could degrade over time but it makes sense after reading your posts.

I will be much more careful going forward with my choices of power supplies. I read a lot about them back when I picked out the one I did but based on the modular system, the power output, and the amps, it seemed like a good one. It claims to have Over Current Protection, Over Voltage Protection, and Short Circuit output protection. Not sure if that would help protect my system if it blows out though. I also read some good reviews on it. But I think I would choose a better brand with all Japanese capacitors in the future. I shudder to think of my PSU taking out my entire system - especially my backup and storage hard drives.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 May 2014   #28

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 X64 (Windows 8.1, Linux Mint, Windows XP and others in VM)
 
 

Just remember when reading reviews: 1) many of them are not very knowledgeable about PSUs and knowing how they work. 2) the overwhelming majority of the reviews are made when they first bought the PSU and installed it. If it works and the voltage seems OK then it is a good PSU. Rarely do the people you want to do reviews on any item do them. I want someone who has used the item for 3 years to do the review. Because it works when it's brand new means little. My motherboard worked fantastic when I bought it and first installed it. I have had to RMA it 5 times in the 1.5 years I have had it. It runs great now and is the best motherboard on the market for this CPU when it works right. I have 3 others running the same CPU, so I know. It will do things none of the others can even think of doing. But, having to RMA it 5 times means something. When you get ready to buy components, keep those things in mind and take them just as an indication. You can always come here and ask. There are an awful lot of good hardware people here who can give you advice. And their advice can differ even among the good ones. Some would tell you to buy an Nvidia card and others would tell you to buy a AMD card, and they will debate it. Truthfully, they are probably both right in the fact that it is a good card, but you have to take the information and make the decision. But again, there are an awful lot of excellent hardware experts here. You just ended up with me. Others may have told you different things with neither one of us wrong, just a different outlook and preferences. I overclock and like to run benchmarks and other things, so I am looking for components that are very high performance oriented. I don't care if it will last 10 years because I will build another system within 6 months usually. Someone else may not be concerned about the same things I am and want a stable stock system they can give to their kids in 10 years. They would give you different options and opinions than I would. So, just understand that, and it goes for reading reviews of components. Many times, looking at their system specs here can give you an idea about them, but not always. Some really know what they are talking about but have an HP laptop as their system, because mobility is important to them, but they have the knowledge and experience.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 Jul 2014   #29

Windows 7 32bit Home Premium
 
 

I'm reviving this thread because the issue is still not solved. Since my last post here, I have gone almost 2 months without a crash/reboot. The other day, I went through a whole evening of reboots. I turned on my external hard drive box, and the system instantly rebooted, just as it has been doing through this whole ordeal. I ignored it but later that day, the second I clicked on a youtube video, it rebooted again. I went into safe mode, and it rebooted in safe mode. I then went into the bios to restore everything to factory defaults - removing my overclock. I also unplugged my PC from my battery backup and plugged it directly into the wall just to eliminate the battery backup from the equation.

Sure enough it rebooted again. At one point during a reboot attempt it said it failed to load the OS. In fact, it went into a violent fit of reboots - crash, reboot - 1 second into the reboot it crashed again, and rebooted, then crashed again a second later, etc - I had to hit the power supply switch to stop the cycle of reboots. I turned it back on and it started up the reboot cycles again. I killed the power and disconnected everything from the power supply and turned it on with nothing attached - and it started up just fine and ran. So I reconnected everything and the PC ran fine for 4 days straight - no reboots - which leads me to this evening.

Just a short while ago I was surfing and clicked on a web page link to a DVD/blu-ray store from Google. I have been to that site many times with no issue. The second I clicked the link to the site the PC rebooted again!

I'm at my wits end with this PC. I've ran multiple extended memory tests with memtest+ with no issues. I've ran Prime95 for hours with no issues - with my overclock! My temps are fine. I've ruled out my battery backup device. I just can't understand what is causing these reboots. There is no crash dump left by these reboots. No blue-screen. Just instant reboots with no warning. I've read driver issues can cause this as well as hardware. What can I do? I find it odd how often (but not always) the reboots happen the second I turn on an external hard drive (but not always), or click a link, or play a youtube video stream. Somehow this must all be connected to cause these reboots, no? Can anybody suggest anything?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 Jul 2014   #30

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 X64 (Windows 8.1, Linux Mint, Windows XP and others in VM)
 
 

OK, I'm almost as close to running out of ideas as you are. But please goto https://downloadcenter.intel.com/default.aspx and run the Driver update utility.. You will have to download and install a file, but it is safe. I've done it numerous time. It will scan your computer to fin if you need driver updates they provide. Update your Lan driver if you can find a newer one. Please go back and read tour post #6, it talks about running out of memory. You have 3 GB of ram. You are running Windows 7 32 (X86). X86 can only address about 3.5-3.7 GB. Windows 7 is pretty good about handling ram, but the fact of the matter is that it probably takes about 50% of your ram just for Windows to run. If you do anything a little intensive, it does not take much to run out of ram. I'm not diagnosing your problem, just 'thinking out loud'. Your system is getting a little long in the tooth, so to speak, which does not mean there is anything wrong with it. It's a very nice and capable system. But, age wears on everything and things start to react different or go wrong. Of what I recall about your problem, we have run almost every test there is, and they all passed. There are just so many things that can go wrong with a computer. Can you check your wiring very closely and make sure there are no loose connections anywhere and that none of the wires have the insulation broken or missing. If a computer has most problems, it will usually BSOD. For one to just shut down, usually makes you think of a dead short or a bad PSU. But, you have done these before, but I'd like you to do them again.
SFC /SCANNOW Command - System File Checker
Disk Check I would like you to do option 2 and run chkdsk C: /f /r
And download and run WD Support / Downloads / SATA & SAS / WD Black Data Lifeguard Diagnostics for DOS run the short and the long test.

Try those and tell me what results you get. and by all means, please run everything at stock settings.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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