Any F1 Fans in the Neighborhood?

xxxdannyxxx · 14 Jul 2011

kado897 said:

There is a big difference between making your No 2 give way and not allowing your No 2 to potentially cause problems to your No 1 driver so late in the race especially given what happened between the two of them last year.

Couldnt agree with you more. This is exactly the reason the FIA had to bring back the rule regarding team orders and make things clearer.
Teams where always going to (for want of a better word) rig the results in a close battle for championships and I dont have an issue with this. It was the underhanded way teams like Ferrari went about things that gave the sport a bad name. I remember Ferraris team radio last year with Massa in front "Alonso is faster than you repeat Alonso is faster than you". He may have well of said stop for a picnic and let Alonso through. That's what hurts the sport
Now, anything goes team orders are in so at least it can no longer damage the sport as its in the rules (rightly or wrongly).

My two pennies worth.

Terronium 12 · 14 Jul 2011

kado897 said:

There is a big difference between making your No 2 give way and not allowing your No 2 to potentially cause problems to your No 1 driver so late in the race especially given what happened between the two of them last year.

As myself and a few other buddies from another forum were discussing: a hell of lot of confidence that shows in your drivers that you fear they may crash in to one another on the final two laps.

Hell of a lot. Vettel could have DNF'd and still been in the lead.

kado897 · 14 Jul 2011

Terronium 12 said:

kado897 said:

There is a big difference between making your No 2 give way and not allowing your No 2 to potentially cause problems to your No 1 driver so late in the race especially given what happened between the two of them last year.

As myself and a few other buddies from another forum were discussing: a hell of lot of confidence that shows in your drivers that you fear they may crash in to one another on the final two laps.

Hell of a lot. Vettel could have DNF'd and still been in the lead.

Quite so. As I said they have history.

Terronium 12 · 14 Jul 2011

Oh, I'm definitely not disputing that at all. From the point of view of the watcher, it was the wrong call as I don't want to see a driver, whether he's on the same team or otherwise backing off for what basically amounts to preemptive conditions.

I can kind of (kind of) understand it from Horner's perspective though: "They're in second and third, so let's not risk the possibility of a double DNF." Otherwise, no...let them race.

smarteyeball · 14 Jul 2011

Terronium 12 said:

I can kind of (kind of) understand it from Horner's perspective though: "They're in second and third, so let's not risk the possibility of a double DNF." Otherwise, no...let them race.

As already mentioned, Vettel and Webber have the history. When those two are racing, they race. Unfortunately they tend to forget about everything else, including consequences.

Understanding why there are team orders is one thing, liking it is another. Viewers/Drivers perspective - it sucks. Teams perspective - Win

I was watching some British Touring Car highlights the other week and two Honda team mates were Pos 1 and 2. Driver No 2 was on a charge. He'd already blitzed through the pack to take second and wasn't going to settle.

On the final corner, of the final lap - teammate be damned - he went for it...

...out braked himself, locked tyres and slid straight into his teamamte, taking them both out of the race.

That is something Web/Vet have done (potentially do) and as crap as the decision is to us, it's understandable.

F1 overall is heading in a different direction again. V6, DRS, KERS etc. They seem to change key aspects of the sport every few years ago on a whim.

Viewers just want action. Racing on rails gets boring after awhile. But at least make it a level playing field. All these gimmicks are great when they work, but the failure rate is high and can be make or break for a driver.

Terronium 12 · 14 Jul 2011

As I've said, I won't refute the fact they've had their fair share on incidents and both of their race crafts were questionable last season. The one thing I can say is most of their accidents are because of Vettel. His craft was basically non-existent last season. Remember Turkey? They (RBR) tried to blame Webber but anyone who saw, cared to analyze, or read what other people have said would know Vettel tried taking a line that just wasn't...there, he turned in and boom - accident.

The funny thing is (and I may actually have this backwards as I don't remember it as vividly) Vettel gestured at Mark as if it were his fault. As if he was supposed to give way and let him ride off into the sunset. Vettel was quite the erratic one last season. I'm not say Mark's craft is a grid's length better but he sure as hell doesn't buckle under pressure, at least not from what I've seen of him. Anyone who can go from 13th (or was it 14th?) to 3rd isn't someone you sleep on. Yes, Vettel is miles more competent this season than last and has only really buckled under pressure once (which is arguable as Canada was the only real time he was being pressured consistently, other than Monaco but that resulted in a daft "We'll just hand you the win" result. My point? Yeah, it may have been the right thing to do from the team's perspective but Mark already has to settle for being 2nd no matter how good he proves himself to be, he's just an outcast and honestly I don't see resigning for next year.

Unless he has nowhere else to go.

My problem isn't with Vettel or whatever, my issue is this: Red Bull is basically becoming a lighter version of Ferrari during Schumacher's reign of terror. You have someone on the team who could possibly threaten said reign but that's not what he's there for, he's there to fend off everyone else and secure as many 1-2's as possible, yet never being in any real contention for the title because, well, that's the poster boys job. It's the same thing with Ferrari too...I really, really hated that "Alonso is faster than you..." bit from, where was it, Bahrain? My issue lies with teammates having to roll over and die just...because. Of course Massa has been off pace ever since his accident but he's had a few bursts of performance this season, and Mark has been well off the pace of Vettel this season as well so there are factors at play that could justify favoring one driver over the other in the long run but even so - I still don't care for it.

kado897 · 15 Jul 2011

[QUOTE=smarteyeball;1491324]

Terronium 12 said:

[B][COLOR=DimGray]

F1 overall is heading in a different direction again. V6, DRS, KERS etc. They seem to change key aspects of the sport every few years ago on a whim.

Viewers just want action. Racing on rails gets boring after awhile. But at least make it a level playing field. All these gimmicks are great when they work, but the failure rate is high and can be make or break for a driver.

The changes are an attempt to get more exciting racing with overtaking. It seems to have worked this season except for Vettel.

smarteyeball · 15 Jul 2011

I'm a long time Webber fan, so I'm a bit biased against Vettel, but it's incidents like Turkey which leave it hard to feel the love for Vettel.

Webber is a drivers driver - a little less precise, but a much better fighter. A proper underdog. Vettel is a technical driver, but not as good at fighting for spots on track. Come race day, Mark is the one that is putting consistent fastest laps of the race.

Overall it sucks to be the number two driver. If the spot exists to be the number one driver, even in a less completive team arises, Mark would probably take it. Otherwise he's stuck. The Ferrari superstar/support driver culture is not going anywhere, any time soon.

That shit's here to stay.

kado897 said:

The changes are an attempt to get more exciting racing with overtaking. It seems to have worked this season except for Vettel.

There has been more passing this year which is good to see. Although the penalty a team faces when their device doesn't work is large enough to be almost unfair. It still needs a little maturing.

kado897 · 15 Jul 2011

smarteyeball said:

kado897 said:

The changes are an attempt to get more exciting racing with overtaking. It seems to have worked this season except for Vettel.

There has been more passing this year which is good to see. Although the penalty a team faces when their device doesn't work is large enough to be almost unfair. It still needs a little maturing.

It's up to the teams to make sure all their systems work and are reliable. F1 is not only a test of the skill of the driver but also of the teams that build the cars.

xxxdannyxxx · 15 Jul 2011

As you guys above have said Webber still hasnt signed for RBR for next year so Im sat here trying to think of options.The only drives I can see possibly coming up next year in the top teams would be Ferrari if they dont resign Massa or Mclaren. As you guys said Massa has under performed since his accident so would Ferrari want to replace him with Webber. Personally I dont think so, Ferrari are very much focused on the number one, number two driver scenario and as with Schumi before, Massa doesnt seem to kick up much fuss about playing second fiddle to Alonso (who I personally despise after the Mclaren season) so im not sure they would want to upset their system by bringing in another competitive driver.
So Mclaren then. Buttons going nowhere thats for sure so that leaves Lewis. Clearly unhappy this season and its showing in his racing. Childish and immature just 2 words that could sum up his season thus far.In fact its gradually got worse since his father stopped being his manager and Ron Dennis took more of a back seat within the team. After all it was Ron that agreed to sign him when he was just 8 years old.Seems like he always wants to be mothered. Hes a great driver im not saying he isnt but a very sore looser.Also im not sure Buttons and Lewis's relationship is as cosy as its made out in the media and by the team.

So i'll through this out there. I know Lewis has an extended contract at Mclaren but thats nothing money cant sort, so could we see a swap Webber for Hamilton.

Danny