Do you believe in aliens?

DustSailor said:

Everlong said:

1) I can't see any fish where I'm stood in the ocean
2) Therefore, fish don't exist in the ocean

Is this deductive conclusion a fair conclusion? I've not studied the rest of the ocean, yet I've arrived at a conclusion just from the small area of the ocean that I am in.

Or how about this:

I have a 100 sided dice. The probability of rolling a 1 is 1 in 100, or 1% chance. After a few rolls I eventually roll a 1. I've now proved it's possible to roll a 1, despite only that 1% chance. If I roll the dice again I'm certain I could roll another 1.

Hey Everlong! I hope you don't take anything I say as my attempt at bashing, I mean it just for arguement's sake (and I realize I am butting in once again) -

At this moment, I am not trying to prove or disprove that aliens exist, but I do so love to argue.

Saying there aren't any fish in the ocean because you can't see them is absurd, I know. But claiming that there are fish in the ocean when you've never seen any is also absurd, because this theory has not been proven. This is the classic deductive vs inductive reasonings. Deductive reasoning claims there is a good chance and that it is reasonable to believe, and inductive reasoning says not to claim anything without a complete list of straight facts. So to claim there are fish in the ocean may make sence based on the sheer number of word of mouth people who have seen them, so it is reasonable to deduce that there are indeed fish in the ocean (though always the best way to find out is to search for them yourself, as the 'masses' often get things wrong too).

Likewise, saying aliens are a 1 in 100 chance may not be accurate. Keep in mind, though many believe in aliens, this does not mean they exist, nor does it mean they don't. There may even be a 0% chance that aliens exist (none), so a dice roll wouldn't even matter in this case!

I myself am surprised in the poll. I grew up where people would straight make fun of you for believing in aliens, though I guess we were just kids at the time. There is no reason to make fun of anyone for what they believe, just because it differs from what you believe.

Hope we can keep these arguements going, but civil! I'm getting good at this devil's advocate thing. :)

You took the dice analogy the wrong way. The dice roll landing on 1 was meaning that life as we know it began. That's proof that life in the universe exists, so there's that chance that a roll i.e. life, can be rolled again. The dice roll isn't saying that they exist either. It's the probability that life exists elsewhere. I've not stated anywhere in any of my arguments that aliens exist, but then it seems to be fine for seekermeister to straight up come out with saying they don't exist.

I don't see where I'm going wrong with my fish analogy, either. And you don't seem to be understanding that one, either.

boohbah said:

Ha,good one! :)

Everlong said:

DustSailor said:

Everlong said:

1) I can't see any fish where I'm stood in the ocean
2) Therefore, fish don't exist in the ocean

Is this deductive conclusion a fair conclusion? I've not studied the rest of the ocean, yet I've arrived at a conclusion just from the small area of the ocean that I am in.

Or how about this:

I have a 100 sided dice. The probability of rolling a 1 is 1 in 100, or 1% chance. After a few rolls I eventually roll a 1. I've now proved it's possible to roll a 1, despite only that 1% chance. If I roll the dice again I'm certain I could roll another 1.

Hey Everlong! I hope you don't take anything I say as my attempt at bashing, I mean it just for arguement's sake (and I realize I am butting in once again) -

At this moment, I am not trying to prove or disprove that aliens exist, but I do so love to argue.

Saying there aren't any fish in the ocean because you can't see them is absurd, I know. But claiming that there are fish in the ocean when you've never seen any is also absurd, because this theory has not been proven. This is the classic deductive vs inductive reasonings. Deductive reasoning claims there is a good chance and that it is reasonable to believe, and inductive reasoning says not to claim anything without a complete list of straight facts. So to claim there are fish in the ocean may make sence based on the sheer number of word of mouth people who have seen them, so it is reasonable to deduce that there are indeed fish in the ocean (though always the best way to find out is to search for them yourself, as the 'masses' often get things wrong too).

Likewise, saying aliens are a 1 in 100 chance may not be accurate. Keep in mind, though many believe in aliens, this does not mean they exist, nor does it mean they don't. There may even be a 0% chance that aliens exist (none), so a dice roll wouldn't even matter in this case!

I myself am surprised in the poll. I grew up where people would straight make fun of you for believing in aliens, though I guess we were just kids at the time. There is no reason to make fun of anyone for what they believe, just because it differs from what you believe.

Hope we can keep these arguements going, but civil! I'm getting good at this devil's advocate thing. :)

You took the dice analogy the wrong way. The dice roll landing on 1 was meaning that life as we know it began. That's proof that life in the universe exists, so there's that chance that a roll i.e. life, can be rolled again. The dice roll isn't saying that they exist either. It's the probability that life exists elsewhere. I've not stated anywhere in any of my arguments that aliens exist, but then it seems to be fine for seekermeister to straight up come out with saying they don't exist.

I don't see where I'm going wrong with my fish analogy, either. And you don't seem to be understanding that one, either.

Ah. While I still believe everything I've written, I do see more of what you mean.

Many believe in evolution and base their understanding and reasoning around that assumption. Still others believe in religion or many other different things as the reason for explaining the universe. Now keep in mind discussing such things any further are against forum rules, so I will only say that all of these things have not yet been 'proven', no matter how much you believe them. All of them take some amount of faith as we have no way to prove any of them at the moment. Every single belief is a theory, no matter how you look at it.

So it is reasonable, if you believe in evolution, to come to the conclusion that if you evolved here on earth, than there must be other creatures elsewhere who have also evolved. But keep in mind even with this belief, you cannot assume that because you evolved, there must be other creatures that have also evolved. Perhaps there is still a chance (in evolution) that there may be aliens, or that there will be aliens in the future. But there is also a chance that monkeys can type a whole sentance on a typewriter with correct spelling. It isn't impossible, but it would take an astronomically long time of that monkey just pounding keys on that typewriter.

But also don't discredit/denounce those who hold other beliefs, such as religion, nor those who are from the evolution persuasion. It takes an equal amount of faith to believe on either side. I'm not accusing anyone of berating a person for their beliefs, I'm just saying it shouldn't be done.

It would be interesting to me to find out why people believed in aliens based on their fundamental beliefs, ie:
*I believe in aliens and evolution
*I believe in aliens and (etc.)
*I do not believe in aliens but do in evolution
*I do not believe in aliens nor in (etc)...

That poll may violate forum rules AND take all day!

PS. Boohbah, that is halariously funny!

Influx said:

Based on the poll results, Most SF Members believe in aliens, (reasonably).

Not so much 'aliens' per se (little green/greymen,spaceship flying tentacle monsters) - but more in the possibility that life in some way, shape or form exists elsewhere.

I certainly don't believe 100% there are aliens, just the possibility. The same logic applies to the concept of a Sky Parent. I don't claim 100% to deny the possible existence of one.

The staunch adherence to mans constructed concept on the other hand... that's a completely different story.

smarteyeball said:

Influx said:

Based on the poll results, Most SF Members believe in aliens, (reasonably).

Not so much 'aliens' per se (little green/greymen,spaceship flying tentacle monsters) - but more in the possibility that life in some way, shape or form exists elsewhere.

I certainly don't believe 100% there are aliens, just the possibility. The same logic applies to the concept of a Sky Parent. I don't claim 100% to deny the possible existence of one.

The staunch adherence to mans constructed concept on the other hand... that's a completely different story.

Smartey, that opens a whole 'nother ball game. I personally believe other life forms exist (bacteria, etc.), but not in the sense of creatures, insects, animals, or people (or alien beings). You bring up a very good, valid point. The distinction of what an 'alien' is is important!

I feel little shame in dominating the conversation on this thread
But I think its time I stopped.

boohbah said:

Humorous, but a real possibility of a chance there. We are made up of "star stuff" and in the same proportions as the known universe. Does point to single creator.

I got this by intergalactic mail this morning.

I do believe in aliens, I do believe in aliens, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do believe in spooks, I do, I do, I do, I do !

Hum well I believe in the tooth fairy, Father Christmas, the Easter bunny, that you can turn lead into gold, that Topper is coming to see me (I have the Guinness ready Hoppy) that fairies also live at the bottom of the garden, Winnie the Poo was very smelly (hence the name) that what goes up doesn't necessarily have to come down, that my computer works better the harder I pedal, and last but not least (there are more things I believe in) me into a semi intelligent errrrr something anyway