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Windows 7: Free-Will or Determinism

View Poll Results: Is free will an illusion?
Will 6 37.50%
Determinism 2 12.50%
We can't conclude anything yet. 8 50.00%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

14 Apr 2012   #31
Influx

Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1 / WCP x64 / Ubuntu 11 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Influx View Post

Substantial evidence may be perceived differently. What makes you say I assume that we are puppets of a creator? Some people are too twisted with their minds, that they make up arbitrary assumptions, your implications are actually childish, do not pretend to be a supernatural person who can read minds. There is missing evidence with the idea of God, when you take the specific of religions, it starts to appear as a man-made social construct built by people convinced by their myths, it begins to make sense. In no other discourse is faith a valid substitute for reason, or fact, or logic, except religion.
LOL.. What makes you say that my implications are "childish"? That's a personal opinion which should be true to all.

Where did I ever pretend to be a supernatural person 'who can read minds'?
Quote:
You came this far to assume that we are puppets of a creator which hasn't yet been proven to exist?
It is blatantly clear that my statements do literally suggests the absurdity with faith in God which is opposite and incompatible with the imaginary things you're trying to oppose.

I just gave out my personal opinion without disturbing anyone. You assumptions are simply incoherent with the main topic here, starting from 'free will' going to "God".
Quote:
Neither are provable/dis-provable and both have ramifications far beyond comprehension. The main difference is the leading questions. ie A God vs no God, linear vs cyclic time and so on and so forth.
Having mentioned the question concerning the existence of God, that did contrast the perplex paradox of Free Will and Determinism. I don't intend to discuss religion which is clear, you seem to think that I have faith on it.

Btw this forum ain't a place to discuss about 'Gods' or Religion whatsoever.
Quote:
8) No discussions of religion, politics, or firearms.

There is a fine line between a whole new thread of Religious Discussion, and a simple opinion in reply to what seb has mentioned.
Quite curiously, you don't seem to notice why that isn't literally a discussion of such topic.

I don't want to argue with you, so I'll keep my mouth shut, and please be straightly on-topic.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
14 Apr 2012   #32
yowanvista

Windows 10 Pro x64, Arch Linux
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Influx View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Influx View Post

Substantial evidence may be perceived differently. What makes you say I assume that we are puppets of a creator? Some people are too twisted with their minds, that they make up arbitrary assumptions, your implications are actually childish, do not pretend to be a supernatural person who can read minds. There is missing evidence with the idea of God, when you take the specific of religions, it starts to appear as a man-made social construct built by people convinced by their myths, it begins to make sense. In no other discourse is faith a valid substitute for reason, or fact, or logic, except religion.
LOL.. What makes you say that my implications are "childish"? That's a personal opinion which should be true to all.

Where did I ever pretend to be a supernatural person 'who can read minds'?
Quote:
You came this far to assume that we are puppets of a creator which hasn't yet been proven to exist?
It is blatantly clear that my statements do literally suggests the absurdity with faith in God which is opposite and incompatible with the imaginary things you're trying to oppose.

I just gave out my personal opinion without disturbing anyone. You assumptions are simply incoherent with the main topic here, starting from 'free will' going to "God".
Quote:
Neither are provable/dis-provable and both have ramifications far beyond comprehension. The main difference is the leading questions. ie A God vs no God, linear vs cyclic time and so on and so forth.
Having mentioned the question concerning the existence of God, that did contrast the perplex paradox of Free Will and Determinism. I don't intend to discuss religion which is clear, you seem to think that I have faith on it.

Btw this forum ain't a place to discuss about 'Gods' or Religion whatsoever.
Quote:
8) No discussions of religion, politics, or firearms.

There is a fine line between a whole new thread of Religious Discussion, and a simple opinion in reply to what seb has mentioned.
Quite curiously, you don't seem to notice why that isn't literally a discussion of such topic.

I don't want to argue with you, so I'll keep my mouth shut, and please be straightly on-topic.
Quote:
That's a personal opinion which should be true to all.
So what makes you say that? Do you even have proof or just you implied that based on your current distorted vision of things? You're just assuming but your assumptions about me are totally incorrect. You seem to judge people too quickly.

Quote:
It is blatantly clear that my statements do literally suggests the absurdity with faith in God which is opposite and incompatible with the imaginary things you're trying to oppose.
Trying to oppose? I don't have anything against your supposedly 'valid' statements, you're just simply going off topic with all that stuff knowing that it'll lead to a 'creator' of some sort.

Quote:
Having mentioned the question concerning the existence of God, that did contrast the perplex paradox of Free Will and Determinism. I don't intend to discuss religion which is clear, you seem to think that I have faith on it.
This discussion will go nowhere, it'll just end with the assumption that "We don't have any kind of free will, this is rather 'dictated' by some superior being''.

My System SpecsSystem Spec
14 Apr 2012   #33
Influx

Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1 / WCP x64 / Ubuntu 11 x64
 
 

So what makes you say that? Do you even have proof or just you implied that based on your current distorted vision of things? You're just assuming but your assumptions about me are totally incorrect. You seem to judge people too quickly. Since you said that I assume that we are puppets of a creator, that isn't true, I am simply suggesting the unreasonability of assuming so.

Trying to oppose? I don't have anything against your supposedly 'valid' statements, you're just simply going off topic with all that stuff knowing that it'll lead to a 'creator' of some sort. I simply said that there is missing evidence with God, that is in contrast to what seb said about the leading questions.

This discussion will go nowhere, it'll just end with the assumption that "We don't have any kind of free will, this is rather 'dictated' by some superior being''. I agree with ya (that it will go to no conclusion). However, the discussion was supposedly to end up with the lack of circumstantial evidence between both sides (seb's topic), so we simply can't conclude anything except assume that both are possible. Have a good day
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

14 Apr 2012   #34
smarteyeball

 
 

Damn it - I had a fantastic response which was lost by a browser crash - I CBF retyping it all

But first and foremost - this is not a 'Religious' debate. Please keep that tiresome shit to yourself. It is possible to have a logical discussion here without playing the religious card. If that is your intent, you aren't welcome nor do you have any business here. If that's your intent - Bow out now please. Don't ruin it for the open minded people.



In a nutshell - human desires, organic necessity - is not natural if deemed to be part of pre-planned script. If it's all pre-ordained - then every human thought, feeling, function or desire is no longer natural due to the pre-planned essence of determinism.

There shall be be more logical and unbiased thought to follow.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
14 Apr 2012   #35
seekermeister

W7x64 Pro, SuSe 12.1/** W7 x64 Pro, XP MCE
 
 

It seems that some people are so closed minded, that any mention of God, in any context, makes them think that the discussion is of a religious ilk. Regardless of anyone's belief or disbelief in anything of this type, they can't claim to be open minded, unless they are capable of talking about it at some level...scientifically, philosophically, or in whatever fashion they feel most comfortable with. When the bare mention of anything of this nature sets a person off, it would seem that they must have some kind of belief that they don't want to discuss or acknowledge, even to themselves.

So if anyone want to blast me in this fashion, feel free, because it is obvious that this thread is going nowhere, and I have better things to do than go along for the ride.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
14 Apr 2012   #36
LADYPINKtomato1

Windows 8 - 64-bit
 
 

I voted for Free Will. that leaves most everything open to everyone .. even scientist are now moving closer to that idea. noticed I said idea.
As noted above you are free to have your own ideas on this subject.. In My Humble Opinion.
I dare say this thread will change anyones mind or ideas on the subject.

My greatest hope is that we the people of the world can all get along.

A great discussion.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
15 Apr 2012   #37
Influx

Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1 / WCP x64 / Ubuntu 11 x64
 
 

Perhaps, the concept of Determinism is offensive, diametrical and counter intuitive to our understanding, specifically with the implication that the universe is a linear clock, that things are preordained by nature. I am assuming that the reason why the Free Will option in the Poll did get 6 is either because of religious belief or misunderstanding. I'd like to clarify the fact that Determinism is not predicated on the fact that our Wants and Preferences are illusionary. Wants and Preferences are embedded in our biological body, this isn't a spiritual, or a supernatural thing. Hence, it isn't absurd to think of it having a linear path. Both determinism and free will suggests that our Wants and Preference are true, while, free will raises an extra idea that they have no rational basis. The concept in free will, that things are not preordained, suggests an irrational basis, possibly suggesting randomness which could only be the compatible definition of non-preordainment. In conclusion, determinism does not say that you have no want and preferences, it clearly says that your decisions and actions will be based on that, thus, the idea itself is raised.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
15 Apr 2012   #38
kronckew

Win 7 ultimate x64 sp1
 
 

i was going to vote for free will, but something made me vote otherwise.

didn't they make a movie about 'free will'? starred a whale or something.

or was it a porn film, 'free willy'?

-this post was written by schroedinger's cat - me - my human servant is too thick to think of this stuff, and has the attention span of a goldfish...now if i could only get out of this box.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
15 Apr 2012   #39
Influx

Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1 / WCP x64 / Ubuntu 11 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by kronckew View Post
i was going to vote for free will, but something made me vote otherwise.

didn't they make a movie about 'free will'? starred a whale or something.

or was it a porn film, 'free willy'?

-this post was written by schroedinger's cat - me - my human servant is too thick to think of this stuff, and has the attention span of a goldfish...now if i could only get out of this box.
Free Willy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Seems unrelated.
Your humor is out of this world
My System SpecsSystem Spec
15 Apr 2012   #40
w1dpc

windows 7 x64 pro sp1
 
 

free will is like free speech..its an illusion.
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