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Windows 7: Free-Will or Determinism

View Poll Results: Is free will an illusion?
Will 6 37.50%
Determinism 2 12.50%
We can't conclude anything yet. 8 50.00%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

16 Apr 2012   #51
smarteyeball

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Golden View Post
Ahh, but 'who/what/why' ignited the Big Bang in the first place?

Was it intentionally lit, or was it random?


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by FuturDreamz View Post
I think it comes down to: What is the definition of free will?
True - and for sake of this debate, what is the scope of either?

So far I've seen a lot of semantics arguing to and fro based on small scopes and not a lot of stepping back and viewing things from a much larger context.
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16 Apr 2012   #52
Golden
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Ult. x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by smarteyeball View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Golden View Post
Ahh, but 'who/what/why' ignited the Big Bang in the first place?

Was it intentionally lit, or was it random?
Good question, but according to Heisenberg we can never know the answer. At the singularity, Newtonian physics counts for nought (or should that be one? or maybe both?) The quantum world is a strange place..........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle
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16 Apr 2012   #53
seekermeister

W7x64 Pro, SuSe 12.1/** W7 x64 Pro, XP MCE
 
 

Disregarding any theories, quantum or otherwise, one thing is certain...where there is an effect, there is a cause. Science may not be able to determine the cause, but it was there, and remains today.
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.

16 Apr 2012   #54
Golden
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Ult. x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by seekermeister View Post
Disregarding any theories, quantum or otherwise, where there is an effect, there is a cause. Science may not be able to determine the cause, but it was there, and remains today.
Eh?
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16 Apr 2012   #55
Influx

Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1 / WCP x64 / Ubuntu 11 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Golden View Post
Good question, but according to Heisenberg we can never know the answer. At the singularity, Newtonian physics counts for nought (or should that be one? or maybe both?) The quantum world is a strange place..........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle
We can never know that we can never know the answer. We are completely hopeless.
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16 Apr 2012   #56
smarteyeball

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Golden View Post
Good question, but according to Heisenberg we can never know the answer.
Good to see he agrees with me

(It still counts if you arrive at the same conclusion independently )

Quote:
At the singularity, Newtonian physics counts for nought (or should that be one? or maybe both?) The quantum world is a strange place..........
Tbh, most of quantum physics count for nought since most theories and conclusions are predicated on filling in the blanks within arbitrary parameters in the first place.

But it sure is fun thinking about and it's far a better and more productive alternative to drawing a line in the sand and going "Nope. No more questions"
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16 Apr 2012   #57
seekermeister

W7x64 Pro, SuSe 12.1/** W7 x64 Pro, XP MCE
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Golden View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by seekermeister View Post
Disregarding any theories, quantum or otherwise, where there is an effect, there is a cause. Science may not be able to determine the cause, but it was there, and remains today.
Eh?
Sorry, I don't know how to put it any more simply. A basic principle of physics is that there is a cause for any specific effect. The effect is usually obvious, it is the cause that can be elusive, at least when digging into a subject such as this. The point is that nothing just happens chaotically. Chaos is nothing more than the perspective that some are left with when they fail to understand the cause.
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