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Windows 7: Need help with windows 8 clean install on retail pc.

03 Nov 2014   #41
alphanumeric

Windows 10 Education 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by JW0914 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by JW0914 View Post

Right, but he says the HDD went bad and had to replace with a new HDD... or did I misread that post as well lol If I did, I'm really on a roll tonight lol
Replacing the hard drive won't affect anything. I put a blank SSD in my laptop and did a clean install with an 8.0 TechNet ISO. It read and used the OEM key in the BIOS and installed 8.0 Core automatically. I was not prompted for a product key and it activated online automatically with no issues. The OEM key is in the BIOS.
I wasn't aware of that... granted, all the threads and articles I read were from within the first few months after 8 was released and it was always specified unless the HDD itself contained a prior version, 8 would not activate... since no one ever spoke about devices with embedded 8 BIOS keys being different, I always assumed it was the same regardless.
It still only applies if you bought the cheaper "upgrade" version. I think I know what your referring to. In the past you could insert the CD/DVD for a previous OS as proof of ownership when doing a clean install with an upgrade version. With Windows 8 you can't do that, the previous OS has to be installed. Something like that anyway. Pissed a lot of people off. There is a tutorial on how to get around it though.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
03 Nov 2014   #42
JW0914

Win 8.1 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by JW0914 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post

Replacing the hard drive won't affect anything. I put a blank SSD in my laptop and did a clean install with an 8.0 TechNet ISO. It read and used the OEM key in the BIOS and installed 8.0 Core automatically. I was not prompted for a product key and it activated online automatically with no issues. The OEM key is in the BIOS.
I wasn't aware of that... granted, all the threads and articles I read were from within the first few months after 8 was released and it was always specified unless the HDD itself contained a prior version, 8 would not activate... since no one ever spoke about devices with embedded 8 BIOS keys being different, I always assumed it was the same regardless.
It still only applies if you bought the cheaper "upgrade" version. I think I know what your referring to. In the past you could insert the CD/DVD for a previous OS as proof of ownership when doing a clean install with an upgrade version. With Windows 8 you can't do that, the previous OS has to be installed. Something like that anyway. Pissed a lot of people off. There is a tutorial on how to get around it though.
Yes and no... unlike previous versions of Windows, Microsoft didn't market 8 as Full and Upgrade editions, but as Windows 8 and Windows 8 system builder editions. If you bought Windows 8 when it was first released from Microsoft directly or through a retailer, unless the version was specifically called "system builder", then it required a prior version of windows to have been installed at some point on the HDD 8 was being installed to. You didn't have to upgrade from a previous version, the HDD at some point in it's past simply had to have had Windows installed onto it. I'm not sure how that worked, I just know I tried a few different ways to clean install 8 after I found that out to see if there was a way around the whole "upgrade" from a prior OS, as a clean install is always the better route... and one of the interesting things I found was even after I quick formatted a HDD multiple times that previously had 7 installed, windows 8 would activate if clean installed onto it. However, take a brand new drive that never had a prior OS and clean install 8 onto it and you wouldn't be able to activate 8. I'm not sure if the same result would have been garnished from a low level format.

As I mentioned before, Microsoft's new licensing structure caused a whole host of unintended consequences. Even today, if you buy Windows 8 from Best Buy or other retailer, you're buying the non-system builder edition. So while the non-system builder edition is not an upgrade in the sense of prior upgrade only editions, it does require a prior version of Windows to have been on the HDD at some point in the past. Windows 8, regardless of version, is a full OS, whereas in the past, purchasing an "upgrade" was not the full OS.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
03 Nov 2014   #43
alphanumeric

Windows 10 Education 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by JW0914 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by JW0914 View Post

I wasn't aware of that... granted, all the threads and articles I read were from within the first few months after 8 was released and it was always specified unless the HDD itself contained a prior version, 8 would not activate... since no one ever spoke about devices with embedded 8 BIOS keys being different, I always assumed it was the same regardless.
It still only applies if you bought the cheaper "upgrade" version. I think I know what your referring to. In the past you could insert the CD/DVD for a previous OS as proof of ownership when doing a clean install with an upgrade version. With Windows 8 you can't do that, the previous OS has to be installed. Something like that anyway. Pissed a lot of people off. There is a tutorial on how to get around it though.
Yes and no... unlike previous versions of Windows, Microsoft didn't market 8 as Full and Upgrade editions, but as Windows 8 and Windows 8 system builder editions. If you bought Windows 8 when it was first released from Microsoft directly or through a retailer, unless the version was specifically called "system builder", then it required a prior version of windows to have been installed at some point on the HDD 8 was being installed to. You didn't have to upgrade from a previous version, the HDD at some point in it's past simply had to have had Windows installed onto it. I'm not sure how that worked, I just know I tried a few different ways to clean install 8 after I found that out to see if there was a way around the whole "upgrade" from a prior OS, as a clean install is always the better route... and one of the interesting things I found was even after I quick formatted a HDD multiple times that previously had 7 installed, windows 8 would activate if clean installed onto it. However, take a brand new drive that never had a prior OS and clean install 8 onto it and you wouldn't be able to activate 8. I'm not sure if the same result would have been garnished from a low level format.

As I mentioned before, Microsoft's new licensing structure caused a whole host of unintended consequences. Even today, if you buy Windows 8 from Best Buy or other retailer, you're buying the non-system builder edition. So while the non-system builder edition is not an upgrade in the sense of prior upgrade only editions, it does require a prior version of Windows to have been on the HDD at some point in the past. Windows 8, regardless of version, is a full OS, whereas in the past, purchasing an "upgrade" was not the full OS.
If you buy a Full Retail Version of Windows 8 there is no requirement for a previous OS to have been installed on the PC or hard drive. You can do a clean install on new hardware. IMHO you are miss informed on that one.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

03 Nov 2014   #44
JW0914

Win 8.1 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by JW0914 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post

It still only applies if you bought the cheaper "upgrade" version. I think I know what your referring to. In the past you could insert the CD/DVD for a previous OS as proof of ownership when doing a clean install with an upgrade version. With Windows 8 you can't do that, the previous OS has to be installed. Something like that anyway. Pissed a lot of people off. There is a tutorial on how to get around it though.
Yes and no... unlike previous versions of Windows, Microsoft didn't market 8 as Full and Upgrade editions, but as Windows 8 and Windows 8 system builder editions. If you bought Windows 8 when it was first released from Microsoft directly or through a retailer, unless the version was specifically called "system builder", then it required a prior version of windows to have been installed at some point on the HDD 8 was being installed to. You didn't have to upgrade from a previous version, the HDD at some point in it's past simply had to have had Windows installed onto it. I'm not sure how that worked, I just know I tried a few different ways to clean install 8 after I found that out to see if there was a way around the whole "upgrade" from a prior OS, as a clean install is always the better route... and one of the interesting things I found was even after I quick formatted a HDD multiple times that previously had 7 installed, windows 8 would activate if clean installed onto it. However, take a brand new drive that never had a prior OS and clean install 8 onto it and you wouldn't be able to activate 8. I'm not sure if the same result would have been garnished from a low level format.

As I mentioned before, Microsoft's new licensing structure caused a whole host of unintended consequences. Even today, if you buy Windows 8 from Best Buy or other retailer, you're buying the non-system builder edition. So while the non-system builder edition is not an upgrade in the sense of prior upgrade only editions, it does require a prior version of Windows to have been on the HDD at some point in the past. Windows 8, regardless of version, is a full OS, whereas in the past, purchasing an "upgrade" was not the full OS.
If you buy a Full Retail Version of Windows 8 there is no requirement for a previous OS to have been installed on the PC or hard drive. You can do a clean install on new hardware. IMHO you are miss informed on that one.
Microsoft only offered two versions of Windows 8 Retail - Windows 8 and Windows 8 System Builder edition. The later of which did not require a prior version of Windows to be installed and was intended for small businesses/computer techs that build their own PCs and sell them. This isn't new information and is not an opinion. If you don't believe those are factuals statements I encourage you to do some research on Google.

Now, Microsoft may have changed this with their 8.1 Installation media, and while possible, it's unlikely as the same two types are still being sold - Windows 8.1 and Windows 8.1 System Builder edition. Please see links below:

8.1 Pro
Windows 8.1 Professional 64-Bit - System Builder OEM - Windows - Best Buy

Windows 8.1 Pro - Windows - Best Buy

8.1 Core
Windows 8.1 64-Bit - System Builder OEM - Windows - Best Buy

Windows 8.1 - Windows - Best Buy
My System SpecsSystem Spec
03 Nov 2014   #45
alphanumeric

Windows 10 Education 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by JW0914 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by JW0914 View Post

Yes and no... unlike previous versions of Windows, Microsoft didn't market 8 as Full and Upgrade editions, but as Windows 8 and Windows 8 system builder editions. If you bought Windows 8 when it was first released from Microsoft directly or through a retailer, unless the version was specifically called "system builder", then it required a prior version of windows to have been installed at some point on the HDD 8 was being installed to. You didn't have to upgrade from a previous version, the HDD at some point in it's past simply had to have had Windows installed onto it. I'm not sure how that worked, I just know I tried a few different ways to clean install 8 after I found that out to see if there was a way around the whole "upgrade" from a prior OS, as a clean install is always the better route... and one of the interesting things I found was even after I quick formatted a HDD multiple times that previously had 7 installed, windows 8 would activate if clean installed onto it. However, take a brand new drive that never had a prior OS and clean install 8 onto it and you wouldn't be able to activate 8. I'm not sure if the same result would have been garnished from a low level format.

As I mentioned before, Microsoft's new licensing structure caused a whole host of unintended consequences. Even today, if you buy Windows 8 from Best Buy or other retailer, you're buying the non-system builder edition. So while the non-system builder edition is not an upgrade in the sense of prior upgrade only editions, it does require a prior version of Windows to have been on the HDD at some point in the past. Windows 8, regardless of version, is a full OS, whereas in the past, purchasing an "upgrade" was not the full OS.
If you buy a Full Retail Version of Windows 8 there is no requirement for a previous OS to have been installed on the PC or hard drive. You can do a clean install on new hardware. IMHO you are miss informed on that one.
Microsoft only offered two versions of Windows 8 Retail - Windows 8 and Windows 8 System Builder edition. The later of which did not require a prior version of Windows to be installed and was intended for small businesses/computer techs that build their own PCs and sell them. This isn't new information and is not an opinion. If you don't believe those are factuals statements I encourage you to do some research on Google.

Now, Microsoft may have changed this with their 8.1 Installation media, and while possible, it's unlikely as the same two types are still being sold - Windows 8.1 and Windows 8.1 System Builder edition. Please see links below:

8.1 Pro
Windows 8.1 Professional 64-Bit - System Builder OEM - Windows - Best Buy

Windows 8.1 Pro - Windows - Best Buy

8.1 Core
Windows 8.1 64-Bit - System Builder OEM - Windows - Best Buy

Windows 8.1 - Windows - Best Buy
I don't want to drag this thread way of topic but I don't see any mention of having to have a previous OS as a requirement for any of those. System Builder is the equivalent to the old OEM version and the others are Retail full versions. Like I said, if you buy a FULL RETAIL version, not the UPGRADE version of Windows, there is no requirement to have a previous OS. The System Builder (OEM) version has restrictions that the full Retail version doesn't, but installation of a previous OS isn't one of them.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
03 Nov 2014   #46
JW0914

Win 8.1 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by JW0914 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post

If you buy a Full Retail Version of Windows 8 there is no requirement for a previous OS to have been installed on the PC or hard drive. You can do a clean install on new hardware. IMHO you are miss informed on that one.
Microsoft only offered two versions of Windows 8 Retail - Windows 8 and Windows 8 System Builder edition. The later of which did not require a prior version of Windows to be installed and was intended for small businesses/computer techs that build their own PCs and sell them. This isn't new information and is not an opinion. If you don't believe those are factuals statements I encourage you to do some research on Google.

Now, Microsoft may have changed this with their 8.1 Installation media, and while possible, it's unlikely as the same two types are still being sold - Windows 8.1 and Windows 8.1 System Builder edition. Please see links below:

8.1 Pro
Windows 8.1 Professional 64-Bit - System Builder OEM - Windows - Best Buy

Windows 8.1 Pro - Windows - Best Buy

8.1 Core
Windows 8.1 64-Bit - System Builder OEM - Windows - Best Buy

Windows 8.1 - Windows - Best Buy
I don't want to drag this thread way of topic but I don't see any mention of having to have a previous OS as a requirement for any of those. System Builder is the equivalent to the old OEM version and the others are Retail full versions. Like I said, if you buy a FULL RETAIL version, not the UPGRADE version of Windows, there is no requirement to have a previous OS. The System Builder (OEM) version has restrictions that the full Retail version doesn't, but installation of a previous OS isn't one of them.
While I appreciate your assurity, you're confusing two terms that have nothing to do with one another. Microsoft, with Windows 8, stopped offering a full and upgrade version of their OS. Both the non-system builder edition and the system builder edition of windows are FULL windows installs... the difference being, with Windows 8 (I can't confirm with 8.1), the retail version required a prior version of Windows to be installed in order to activate Windows 8, and the System Builder edition does not. This does not mean you couldn't install Windows 8, as you would still be able to install the full version of windows 8 with the retail edition on an HDD without a prior OS... just that you couldn't activate it.

I didn't say Best Buy's listing's differentiated the two, simply showing there are two. Why would you rely on a description from a retailer instead of looking on Microsoft's website is beyond me... Google it, as after I send this I won't reply again about the same issue and attempt to show you that you have an incorrect view on the two versions. Why do I know the above to be correct? Not only did I buy the retail edition of Windows 8 Pro from Microsoft for 14.99, but I also bought a physical copy from Best Buy, thinking I could use the retail edition from Best Buy to clean install on a new HDD... not so, as that required System Builder edition, and with Windows 8, the retail version was priced on sale at either $39.98 or $79.98, with the regular price being $119.99, while the System Builder version was always $179.99 or $199.99.

Preferring to believe in an inaccuracy because of pride and ego is quite ridiculous, especially when you have the internet at your fingertips and refuse to do a simple search on Microsoft.com or technet to verify. Regardless, more important things are on CNN right now, so if you want to believe in inaccuracies, all the more power to you.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Nov 2014   #47
Indianatone

Windows 7 x64 Ultimate and numerous virtual machines
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by JW0914 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by JW0914 View Post

Microsoft only offered two versions of Windows 8 Retail - Windows 8 and Windows 8 System Builder edition. The later of which did not require a prior version of Windows to be installed and was intended for small businesses/computer techs that build their own PCs and sell them. This isn't new information and is not an opinion. If you don't believe those are factuals statements I encourage you to do some research on Google.

Now, Microsoft may have changed this with their 8.1 Installation media, and while possible, it's unlikely as the same two types are still being sold - Windows 8.1 and Windows 8.1 System Builder edition. Please see links below:

8.1 Pro
Windows 8.1 Professional 64-Bit - System Builder OEM - Windows - Best Buy

Windows 8.1 Pro - Windows - Best Buy

8.1 Core
Windows 8.1 64-Bit - System Builder OEM - Windows - Best Buy

Windows 8.1 - Windows - Best Buy
I don't want to drag this thread way of topic but I don't see any mention of having to have a previous OS as a requirement for any of those. System Builder is the equivalent to the old OEM version and the others are Retail full versions. Like I said, if you buy a FULL RETAIL version, not the UPGRADE version of Windows, there is no requirement to have a previous OS. The System Builder (OEM) version has restrictions that the full Retail version doesn't, but installation of a previous OS isn't one of them.
While I appreciate your assurity, you're confusing two terms that have nothing to do with one another. Microsoft, with Windows 8, stopped offering a full and upgrade version of their OS. Both the non-system builder edition and the system builder edition of windows are FULL windows installs... the difference being, with Windows 8 (I can't confirm with 8.1), the retail version required a prior version of Windows to be installed in order to activate Windows 8, and the System Builder edition does not. This does not mean you couldn't install Windows 8, as you would still be able to install the full version of windows 8 with the retail edition on an HDD without a prior OS... just that you couldn't activate it.

I didn't say Best Buy's listing's differentiated the two, simply showing there are two. Why would you rely on a description from a retailer instead of looking on Microsoft's website is beyond me... Google it, as after I send this I won't reply again about the same issue and attempt to show you that you have an incorrect view on the two versions. Why do I know the above to be correct? Not only did I buy the retail edition of Windows 8 Pro from Microsoft for 14.99, but I also bought a physical copy from Best Buy, thinking I could use the retail edition from Best Buy to clean install on a new HDD... not so, as that required System Builder edition, and with Windows 8, the retail version was priced on sale at either $39.98 or $79.98, with the regular price being $119.99, while the System Builder version was always $179.99 or $199.99.

Preferring to believe in an inaccuracy because of pride and ego is quite ridiculous, especially when you have the internet at your fingertips and refuse to do a simple search on Microsoft.com or technet to verify. Regardless, more important things are on CNN right now, so if you want to believe in inaccuracies, all the more power to you.
I think you are being a tad arrogant.alphanumeric is a Microsoft Most Valued Professional and has access to every possible version of Windows that have been made through the Microsoft Developer Network. That would be Windows 8, 8N, 8K the core and pro versions and also the 8E version and in 32 and 64 bit. Plus all the 8.1 versions. I think you can rest assured he does not need to google anything as a senior member of the site. JW0914 you need to show some respect.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Nov 2014   #48
Slartybart

x64 (6.3.9600) Win8.1 Pro & soon dual boot x64 (6.1.7601) Win7_SP1 HomePrem
 
 

Andrew ... you still around?

I was wondering about the original drive - any chance you might be able to recover it?
Create a bootable Partition Wizard (PW) disc and see what it can determine about the drive. If PW can read the drive, post a screen shot of the main PW window. You might be able to use the Partition Recovery feature that is part of PW (not the separate Minitool application). Then clone the drive.

Cloning a UEFI / GPT drive has a number of pitfalls - you might want to check EightForums tutorials to see what is there regarding cloning.

Bill
.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Nov 2014   #49
alphanumeric

Windows 10 Education 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by JW0914 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by JW0914 View Post

Microsoft only offered two versions of Windows 8 Retail - Windows 8 and Windows 8 System Builder edition. The later of which did not require a prior version of Windows to be installed and was intended for small businesses/computer techs that build their own PCs and sell them. This isn't new information and is not an opinion. If you don't believe those are factuals statements I encourage you to do some research on Google.

Now, Microsoft may have changed this with their 8.1 Installation media, and while possible, it's unlikely as the same two types are still being sold - Windows 8.1 and Windows 8.1 System Builder edition. Please see links below:

8.1 Pro
Windows 8.1 Professional 64-Bit - System Builder OEM - Windows - Best Buy

Windows 8.1 Pro - Windows - Best Buy

8.1 Core
Windows 8.1 64-Bit - System Builder OEM - Windows - Best Buy

Windows 8.1 - Windows - Best Buy
I don't want to drag this thread way of topic but I don't see any mention of having to have a previous OS as a requirement for any of those. System Builder is the equivalent to the old OEM version and the others are Retail full versions. Like I said, if you buy a FULL RETAIL version, not the UPGRADE version of Windows, there is no requirement to have a previous OS. The System Builder (OEM) version has restrictions that the full Retail version doesn't, but installation of a previous OS isn't one of them.
While I appreciate your assurity, you're confusing two terms that have nothing to do with one another. Microsoft, with Windows 8, stopped offering a full and upgrade version of their OS. Both the non-system builder edition and the system builder edition of windows are FULL windows installs... the difference being, with Windows 8 (I can't confirm with 8.1), the retail version required a prior version of Windows to be installed in order to activate Windows 8, and the System Builder edition does not. This does not mean you couldn't install Windows 8, as you would still be able to install the full version of windows 8 with the retail edition on an HDD without a prior OS... just that you couldn't activate it.

I didn't say Best Buy's listing's differentiated the two, simply showing there are two. Why would you rely on a description from a retailer instead of looking on Microsoft's website is beyond me... Google it, as after I send this I won't reply again about the same issue and attempt to show you that you have an incorrect view on the two versions. Why do I know the above to be correct? Not only did I buy the retail edition of Windows 8 Pro from Microsoft for 14.99, but I also bought a physical copy from Best Buy, thinking I could use the retail edition from Best Buy to clean install on a new HDD... not so, as that required System Builder edition, and with Windows 8, the retail version was priced on sale at either $39.98 or $79.98, with the regular price being $119.99, while the System Builder version was always $179.99 or $199.99.

Preferring to believe in an inaccuracy because of pride and ego is quite ridiculous, especially when you have the internet at your fingertips and refuse to do a simple search on Microsoft.com or technet to verify. Regardless, more important things are on CNN right now, so if you want to believe in inaccuracies, all the more power to you.
As Indianatone has mentioned, I am a Microsoft MVP, Most Valuable Professional. My actual title is Windows Consumer Expert. That being said ,I don't claim to be an expert but I do know one or two things about Windows. One is, that no full retail version of Windows has ever had a requirement for a previous OS to be installed. Also there are more than just the two versions you listed for windows 8 and 8.1. It sounds like you originally bought one of early incentive deals. The low cost non full versions that they do not sell anymore, since you like Google searches, Microsoft?s Price-Busting Gambit: Windows 8 Pro Will Be a $39.99 Upgrade | TIME.com Notice the word upgrade in the title?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Nov 2014   #50
maxie

windows 7 home 64bit
 
 

Windows 8 Retail will Install on any Laptop .. I know this because i have done it for a friend in the past ..
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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