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Windows 7: Need help with windows 8 clean install on retail pc.

04 Nov 2014   #51
alphanumeric

Windows 10 Education 64 bit
 
 

As far as I know, my TechNet ISO's are identical to Retail DVD's. My TechNet/MSDN keys are listed as retail keys. I don't have an actual Retail DVD to confirm it 100 % but all indications from what has been posted on 8 forums is that it is true. My TechNet ISO's are multi edition, they can install Core or Pro depending on the key entered during install. The other reason they do this is so you can upgrade to Pro from Core by only entering a product code though add features. All the Pro features are there in Core, they're just disabled. When I got my MVP and MSDN sub all I had to do was enter a Pro key in add features on my laptop to upgrade to Pro. No install media was needed. Also, if I do a clean install with my 8.0 TechNet ISO it reads and uses the embedded OEM key automatically and installs 8.0 Core. If I want to go right to Pro I have to add a PID.txt file with the Pro key in it to skip having to do the add features. If you buy a Retail DVD your going to get a Core or Pro key. If you buy Pro, the box will say 8 Pro. The DVD can still install Core if a Core key is entered. The DVD likely just says Windows 8/8.1. I haven't bought one myself as I have no need to do so. I have an MSDN subscription so I use those ISO's and keys.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Nov 2014   #52
JW0914

Win 8.1 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by JW0914 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post

I don't want to drag this thread way of topic but I don't see any mention of having to have a previous OS as a requirement for any of those. System Builder is the equivalent to the old OEM version and the others are Retail full versions. Like I said, if you buy a FULL RETAIL version, not the UPGRADE version of Windows, there is no requirement to have a previous OS. The System Builder (OEM) version has restrictions that the full Retail version doesn't, but installation of a previous OS isn't one of them.
While I appreciate your assurity, you're confusing two terms that have nothing to do with one another. Microsoft, with Windows 8, stopped offering a full and upgrade version of their OS. Both the non-system builder edition and the system builder edition of windows are FULL windows installs... the difference being, with Windows 8 (I can't confirm with 8.1), the retail version required a prior version of Windows to be installed in order to activate Windows 8, and the System Builder edition does not. This does not mean you couldn't install Windows 8, as you would still be able to install the full version of windows 8 with the retail edition on an HDD without a prior OS... just that you couldn't activate it.

I didn't say Best Buy's listing's differentiated the two, simply showing there are two. Why would you rely on a description from a retailer instead of looking on Microsoft's website is beyond me... Google it, as after I send this I won't reply again about the same issue and attempt to show you that you have an incorrect view on the two versions. Why do I know the above to be correct? Not only did I buy the retail edition of Windows 8 Pro from Microsoft for 14.99, but I also bought a physical copy from Best Buy, thinking I could use the retail edition from Best Buy to clean install on a new HDD... not so, as that required System Builder edition, and with Windows 8, the retail version was priced on sale at either $39.98 or $79.98, with the regular price being $119.99, while the System Builder version was always $179.99 or $199.99.

Preferring to believe in an inaccuracy because of pride and ego is quite ridiculous, especially when you have the internet at your fingertips and refuse to do a simple search on Microsoft.com or technet to verify. Regardless, more important things are on CNN right now, so if you want to believe in inaccuracies, all the more power to you.
As Indianatone has mentioned, I am a Microsoft MVP, Most Valuable Professional. My actual title is Windows Consumer Expert. That being said ,I don't claim to be an expert but I do know one or two things about Windows. One is, that no full retail version of Windows has ever had a requirement for a previous OS to be installed. Also there are more than just the two versions you listed for windows 8 and 8.1. It sounds like you originally bought one of early incentive deals. The low cost non full versions that they do not sell anymore, since you like Google searches, Microsoft?s Price-Busting Gambit: Windows 8 Pro Will Be a $39.99 Upgrade | TIME.com Notice the word upgrade in the title?
When I stated there were two versions of windows 8/8.1, I wasn't referring to single language, core, pro, enterprise, which it appears is the way you took it... although I'm a bit perplexed as to how. MSDN versions are not retail versions in the way that MSDN versions are sold as the Windows package and architecture (8.1 Pro x64, etc.), whereas there exists two distinctly different retail versions of Windows 8 when it was released, as well as with Windows 8.1 and they are the non-system builder versions and the system builder versions. I listed Best Buy links earlier simply because I was shopping on the site and it was the most convenient to pull from.

Let me approach this from a different view.... We can all agree that there exists two separate types of installation media that is sold... one is the retail packaging most are used to seeing and the other specifically states "System Builder" on it (known in prior versions as the OEM version). Going off of your perspective and opinion, why would Microsoft release two entirely different types of install media when both are full versions of 8.1 (and 8 before it). Microsoft has never offered an upgrade version of Windows 8 in the manner that you are accustomed to within prior versions of Windows. You mentioned last night about the key difference in Windows 7 backwards, where if you purchased an upgrade, you were literally required to upgrade your previous OS as the upgrade disk was not a full installation media and thus required a foundation to install over.

Now, with Windows 8 (and again, I specify with 8 because I can't attest whether or not 8.1 editions are the same seeming as I grabbed my 8.1 iso when I upgraded from 8 - 8.1), Microsoft required users who purchased it to install it on a hard drive that previously had a prior version of Windows installed on it. You were not forced to upgrade the prior OS, you simply had to have previously installed an OS on the drive. Provided you had done the prerequisite, you could boot from the 8 installation media and do a clean install. Microsoft only ever produced full versions for the installation media... As far as the snide remarks about the word "upgrade" in the link you posted... what else were they to call it? If you were buying Windows 8, you were obviously upgrading from a lower windows edition, however, the installation media, as I've repeatedly stated, was not an "upgrade" but a full install of Windows 8. Again, you're confusing, purposefully I would argue, the word "upgrade" with what an "upgrade" meant in prior versions of Windows (the reason why it was framed in such a way and offered for so little was because Microsoft wanted to phase out the older editions of Windows, which like everything else I've stated, has been heavily reported on).

Seeming as you have already mentioned your computer came pre-installed with Windows 8 and therefore has a Windows 8 key in the BIOS, this wouldn't be an issue for you... only those who did not buy a PC with Windows 8 on it and chose to buy Windows 8 to bring their OS up to a current edition.

However, since your arrogance sloshes everywhere, I have done your due diligence for you and pasted information that explains what I've been trying to get through to you for almost 24 hours. Simply because you're an MMVP doesn't mean you know everything about Windows; however, it's obvious that you're more concerned with being right, puffing out your chest and pruning your feathers, than you are about actually having factually correct information. It's due to MMVPs and moderators like you on the Microsoft forums that cause more problems that you solve simply because you would prefer to believe you're right about everything before bothering to fact check your information first.

While these articles list ways to fix the issue and perform a clean install without having a prior OS installed, for the first couple of weeks following the RTM of Windows 8, no one knew how to get past the activation failure on a clean install, other than installing a prior OS, getting to the desktop of that OS, rebooting to the 8 installation media, and then performing a clean install, which would finally allow you to activate the clean install.

How to Do a Clean Install of Windows 8 with an Upgrade Disc <--- you may want to pay special attention to the second paragraph... "upgrade disk", by the way, doesn't mean it was an upgrade edition and not a full install, just that it was how Microsoft marketed it.

Clean Install with Windows 8 Upgrade <--- EightForums tutorial... it's sad you have such a hubristic attitude towards others.

Howto ? Installing Windows 8 Upgrade without installing a previous OS before. ğ Ralphs admin blog

http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/11...-ie-new-drive/


As I kept reiterating over and over, the cause of this was Microsoft's licensing structure change that occurred with the the releases of Office 2013 and Windows 8.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Nov 2014   #53
andrew129260

Windows 10 Pro
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Slartybart View Post
Andrew ... you still around?

I was wondering about the original drive - any chance you might be able to recover it?
Create a bootable Partition Wizard (PW) disc and see what it can determine about the drive. If PW can read the drive, post a screen shot of the main PW window. You might be able to use the Partition Recovery feature that is part of PW (not the separate Minitool application). Then clone the drive.

Cloning a UEFI / GPT drive has a number of pitfalls - you might want to check EightForums tutorials to see what is there regarding cloning.

Bill
.
Yes thanks, Unfortunately no the drive is not recoverable. For some reason though I could not even get minitool disk to even boot from the cd. it booted ubuntu fine and everything but would not boot that disk. And I know that disk works as it boots in other computers just fine. I even disabled secureboot and still could not get it to load. I had to plug the drive into another pc and it was not even recognized. Dead as a doornail.


In other news, I am going to try the eifc removal tool on the windows 8 disk since his site mentions it works with windows 8 and see if that will work to create a universal install disk that would allow me to install regular windows 8 and then get this to activate.

I'm starting to feel like it is just better to get the recovery disks.....
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

04 Nov 2014   #54
alphanumeric

Windows 10 Education 64 bit
 
 

@JW0914

Your just confirming what I have already said. If you buy an UPGRADE version of Windows your required to have a previous qualifying OS. If you buy a Full Retail or OEM (System builder) your not, you can clean install with no issues. Clean Install - Windows 8. OEM is cheaper than Retail and has restrictions on how its used. If you pay extra for Full Retail copy you can move it to new hardware without any activation issues. It can't be installed on more than one PC at a time but can be installed on more than one PC. The system builder (OEM) version once installed and activated, is tied to the PC (motherboard). It stays with that PC and cannot be transferred. It's meant for people building PC's, small shops etc. When they sell the PC Windows goes with it. Support from Microsoft is also limited with the OEM version. In the past, the typical build it yourself home builder was not supposed to have access to the cheaper OEM version. They changed that with the system builder edition. They basically knew they weren't going to stop it. If you buy a PC with a factory OEM install you call the OEM for Tech Support, not Microsoft. If you but Retail you call Microsoft.
Microsoft Windows 8 Professional 64 bit Full Version OEM (French) - Newegg.ca <<< Full Version OEM
Microsoft Windows 8.1 Pro - Full Version (32 & 64-bit) - Newegg.ca <<< Full Version Retail
Microsoft Windows 8 Pro French - Upgrade - Newegg.ca <<< Upgrade Version
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Nov 2014   #55
alphanumeric

Windows 10 Education 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by andrew129260 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Slartybart View Post
Andrew ... you still around?

I was wondering about the original drive - any chance you might be able to recover it?
Create a bootable Partition Wizard (PW) disc and see what it can determine about the drive. If PW can read the drive, post a screen shot of the main PW window. You might be able to use the Partition Recovery feature that is part of PW (not the separate Minitool application). Then clone the drive.

Cloning a UEFI / GPT drive has a number of pitfalls - you might want to check EightForums tutorials to see what is there regarding cloning.

Bill
.
Yes thanks, Unfortunately no the drive is not recoverable. For some reason though I could not even get minitool disk to even boot from the cd. it booted ubuntu fine and everything but would not boot that disk. And I know that disk works as it boots in other computers just fine. I even disabled secureboot and still could not get it to load. I had to plug the drive into another pc and it was not even recognized. Dead as a doornail.


In other news, I am going to try the eifc removal tool on the windows 8 disk since his site mentions it works with windows 8 and see if that will work to create a universal install disk that would allow me to install regular windows 8 and then get this to activate.

I'm starting to feel like it is just better to get the recovery disks.....
Actually I think you need to add an ei.cfg file, not remove it. Creating a Windows 8 DVD to install ANY version
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Nov 2014   #56
ThrashZone

Win-7-Pro64bit 7-H-Prem-64bit
 
 

I doubt the recovery disk is any different than a oem :/
I also doubt the recovery disk is free either so pick you poison give the money to Newegg or .... or the manufacture that pretty much stacked the deck

I got one of the win-8 upgrade activation keys from Robin I don't believe it works anymore either
Not that I give a hoot but just saying Microsoft might of change the playing field ?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Nov 2014   #57
alphanumeric

Windows 10 Education 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ThrashZone View Post
I doubt the recovery disk is any different than a oem :/
I also doubt the recovery disk is free either so pick you poison give the money to Newegg or .... or the manufacture that pretty much stacked the deck

I got one of the win-8 upgrade activation keys from Robin I don't believe it works anymore either
Not that I give a hoot but just saying Microsoft might of change the playing field ?
That likely depends on your definition of Recovery. Usually, what you get from the OEM (for a price) just restores an image back to the hard drive. It wipes everything out and restores it to the OOBE. The Out Of the Box Experience. It will be like it was the first time you turned it on. Pick your language etc. All you personal files are gone. All the original OEM preinstalled junk is back too. If you buy an off the shelf System builder (OEM) version you can clean install and pick and chose what gets installed. The downside is you may have to hunt up some drivers etc.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Nov 2014   #58
alphanumeric

Windows 10 Education 64 bit
 
 

Sorry for all the other clutter due to the difference of opinion. It's looking like a lost cause so I'm just going to let it go.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Nov 2014   #59
alphanumeric

Windows 10 Education 64 bit
 
 

Ok, I just went over this all again. If I read things correctly?
The PC came with Windows 8.1.
The COA sticker doesn't say Pro so we are assuming its only 8.1 Core.
8.1 Pro was installed because that is what was on hand and that was the only key that would let Windows install.
The OEM key has been retrieved but won't work because its a Core key and Pro is installed.
Andrew is now trying to install Core in a 30 day trial mode so he can try his OEM key again.

If the original install was the regular OEM, not the single language version, the embedded key "should" be used automatically. That makes me think it was the Single language version. If so Andrew will have to hunt up that ISO. If he does get 8.1 Core installed and his OEM key still won't work, I think that would confirm my suspicion. There were one or two other threads like this and I'll see if I can hunt one up.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Nov 2014   #60
alphanumeric

Windows 10 Education 64 bit
 
 

My System SpecsSystem Spec
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