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Windows 7: Windows 10 worse than windows 8

24 Mar 2015   #221
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
I did not have any trouble adjusting to 8 and 8.1. Yes the UI was a bit unusual at first, but after a few days of exploring I had no problems. Where I still see problems is with UEFI and secure boot. It is a real bitch to use all my old tools on those UEFI systems.

I have one laptop where the BIOS does not offer legacy mode. There is is impossible to boot e.g. a Linux from a USB stick - I am talking about a running persistent Linux system on a stick. Since weeks I try to figure out how to install a UEFI Linux on a stick but have still not managed.
I didn't take well to adding 3rd Start menus as well as running into some major incompatibility issues when trying a dual boot with 7 adding 8 into the 7 BCD only to be followed by the PC Refresh option seeing 7 added into the 8 boot loader and in each instance the two HDs in use ended up loaded with errors. I ended up flushing 8 and almost tossing the 7 install at the time until recovery of each by the Disk Check tool being run a few times. That saw both running again while the final solution was obvious.

Note in both instances the two were tied together. Plus I didn't care for how MS stripped other things besides the Start menu out that are still being used regularly. You have to isolate each OS from now on due to how the new boot sector operates. While understanding the want to provide a more secure bug free boot sector the flexibility many are accustomed to disappeared to a degree.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DavidE View Post
I'm curious, have you tried the latest WTP build, and what do you think ?

I did a clean install with the latest build in VMware Player and it performs much better than my previous WTP VM that has been updated since the original WTP release.

My biggest problem really is running in a VM, it's not the same as a bare metal install.
For me the newer versions of VMware Player don't play nice for me with screen resolution ...

When i have to scroll up/down and left/right to see the Desktop, i get annoyed and lose interest ...
I found a VMware setting change that i never needed before works when i view the Guest (WTP) in full screen ...
In some ways i feel using an older version of VMware Player works better for ME.
It auto adjusted screen resolution depending on how I was viewing and changed to correctly adjust what i see ...
I went for it here at the same time VMPlayer wanted to update itself to the latest version. I may have to dump it however and reload the 2yr.old version that was on once again. The installation stalls on the Getting devices ready with a total freeze despite adjusting the system and other settings. The download was a regular ISO file and has been put on a 4gb flash drive however once I get in there and unplug the 7 host again for a bios dual boot isolated situation having seen how the 7/8 went over like a lead balloon!

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Kari View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
That's because MS has a page saying sign in to your MS Account during the install.
There is no indication whatsoever that you can use a Local Account until you perform a bunch of extra clicks.

If it was the other way around there would less complaints.
I don't know, how difficult is it really? Task: create a local account to sign in to Windows. Choice to make: Either select Sign in to your MS Account, or select Create a new account.

Difficult to choose? In my opinion using common sense and logics is if not necessary but at least recommended.
The initial installation does what now? local or Admin account? The admin account is always the first to be created with any OS! You won't get around that. That's where everything comes from. In Windows of course you have the two admins being the System and User types. And the initial installation sees the option for password protection unless skipped over. From there you then elevate the permissions for a new guest account to see that elevated.

If you are going to want a stand alone installation the installation media needs to be prepared. This is where the ISO not online upgrade over option is used. Rather then using blank dvds any longer I simply use one of the smaller flash drives instead exceot fior seeing the iso loaded install on a VM.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 Mar 2015   #222
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

Thanks Greg, I know all that. Unfortunately, my little laptop where I want to use the Linux from the stick is UEFI but there is absolutely no setting option in the BIOS. It is UEFI all the way. It is an Instant Go device. Those seem to be retarded on purpose. Another environment where MS wants to control without asking you.

I would prefer running Linux from the stick because I use it mainly at the Linux workshops at the local computer club. Right now I run Linux under VMware Player from an external SSD. I am at the limit there because the laptop has only 2GB of RAM which I split 512MB for VMware Player/Linux and 1.5GB for Windows 8.1. It runs OK and would run even better if I put the virtual machine onto the internal eMMC instead of running it from USB2. But the C partition is only 20GB so space is at a premium.

Alternatively I could take one of my big MBR laptops. But they are a lot heavier to haul around. The little guy weighs only 2 pounds and the battery lasts over 10 hours. Everybody else at the workshop is always scrambling to connect to an outlet.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 Mar 2015   #223
Kari

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
The initial installation does what now? local or Admin account? The admin account is always the first to be created with any OS! You won't get around that. That's where everything comes from. In Windows of course you have the two admins being the System and User types. And the initial installation sees the option for password protection unless skipped over. From there you then elevate the permissions for a new guest account to see that elevated.
You are now mixing two different things, an admin account or a standard account versus an MS Account or a local account.
  • MS Account = a Windows user account connected to an email address, used as sign in account in Windows 8 and later. An MS Account can be either an admin account or a standard account with reduced user rights
  • Local Account = a legacy Windows user account, the user account mode in Windows 7 and older, can be used instead of an MS Account in Windows 8 and later. A Local Account can be either an admin account or a standard account with reduced user rights

Both MS Account and Local Account can be either Admin or Standard accounts. The first, initial user account created when Windows is installed is in all Windows versions always an Admin account (computer administrator), regardless if it is a local account or an MS account.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

24 Mar 2015   #224
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Kari View Post
I have to quote my earlier post:

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Kari View Post
I don't know, how difficult is it really? Task: create a local account to sign in to Windows. Choice to make: Either select Sign in to your MS Account, or select Create a new account.

Difficult to choose? In my opinion using common sense and logics is if not necessary but at least recommended.
Kari, you are bright and really know your way around computers but what may seem obvious for you may not always be so obvious for others. If someone as bright and knowledgeable as Wolfgang has problems with this, try to imagine what it would be like for others here not as knowledgeable, let alone Joe and Jill Sixpack or Ma and Pa Kettle.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 Mar 2015   #225
ThrashZone

Win-7-Pro64bit 7-H-Prem-64bit
 
 

Yea my favorite builds actually had local account hidden out of sight on the bottom right of a page,
The best part of that was there was a hidden scroll bar which only appear if you happened to put the mouse cruiser over it accidently on the right side of the screen
Once it appeared you had to scroll down one line to see it "Local account"

It's nice to see Microsoft give it equal vision
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 Mar 2015   #226
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

LF, you put the finger on the problem. The big green button is for an MS account and somewhere after the third click or a hidden scroll you find what you are looking for. Who is going to make all these extra clicks during the installation process. As far as I am concerned, the default MS account installation is equal to malware.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 Mar 2015   #227
ThrashZone

Win-7-Pro64bit 7-H-Prem-64bit
 
 

Actually equal to pup's now we can call pua's
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 Mar 2015   #228
DavidE

Multi-Boot W7_Pro_x64 W8.1_Pro_x64 W10_Pro_x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DavidE View Post
I'm curious, have you tried the latest WTP build, and what do you think ?

I did a clean install with the latest build in VMware Player and it performs much better than my previous WTP VM that has been updated since the original WTP release.

My biggest problem really is running in a VM, it's not the same as a bare metal install.
For me the newer versions of VMware Player don't play nice for me with screen resolution ...

When i have to scroll up/down and left/right to see the Desktop, i get annoyed and lose interest ...
I found a VMware setting change that i never needed before works when i view the Guest (WTP) in full screen ...
In some ways i feel using an older version of VMware Player works better for ME.
It auto adjusted screen resolution depending on how I was viewing and changed to correctly adjust what i see ...
I went for it here at the same time VMPlayer wanted to update itself to the latest version. I may have to dump it however and reload the 2yr.old version that was on once again. The installation stalls on the Getting devices ready with a total freeze despite adjusting the system and other settings. The download was a regular ISO file and has been put on a 4gb flash drive however once I get in there and unplug the 7 host again for a bios dual boot isolated situation having seen how the 7/8 went over like a lead balloon!
I'm not exactly sure what you have done, but fwiw here is what i did.

I tried installing the latest VMWare Player version over the top of my existing version.
I got an error, so that approach didn't work for me.
I ended up uninstalling VMWare Player, rebooted, then installed the latest VMWare Player version.
That worked for me.

I didn't download a new WTP ISO file (didn't know they were available).
I downloaded the latest ESD file, and ran the ESD to ISO utility from here:
ESD to ISO - Create Bootable ISO from Windows 10 ESD File - Page 14 - Windows 10 Forums

I then loaded the ISO file I created as a new VM without problems in the latest VMWare Player version.

Also, I have been using a multi-boot Win 7 / Win 8.x PC on a single SSD/HD for a long time without issues.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 Mar 2015   #229
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ThrashZone View Post
Yes this new build is more simplified than prior builds were.
As the RTM approaches each newer build removes itself further from the Alpha/Beta type stages to the RC equivalent type. With 7 the distinction was made clear enough for each pre-launch builds. Plus MS would intend to make things a bit easier for who come into the Preview later then others since the retail is now only a few months away.

For this one since it stalls on the latest VBox as well as the latest for the VMPlayer I will simply run it on the destination drive being a stand alone install there until the retail release replaces it.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DavidE View Post
I'm not exactly sure what you have done, but fwiw here is what i did.

I tried installing the latest VMWare Player version over the top of my existing version.
I got an error, so that approach didn't work for me.
I ended up uninstalling VMWare Player, rebooted, then installed the latest VMWare Player version.
That worked for me.

I didn't download a new WTP ISO file (didn't know they were available).
I downloaded the latest ESD file, and ran the ESD to ISO utility from here:
ESD to ISO - Create Bootable ISO from Windows 10 ESD File - Page 14 - Windows 10 Forums

I then loaded the ISO file I created as a new VM without problems in the latest VMWare Player version.

Also, I have been using a multi-boot Win 7 / Win 8.x PC on a single SSD/HD for a long time without issues.
Well unfortunately I will likely need to do the same here and simply nuke the newer version entirely and then proceed with a fresh install of the older version I had on since I could run just about anything on that! I ran several Linux distros as well as the 8 and 8.1 releases quickly without issues.

I first had to get signed back into the Insider page in order to pick and choose from online upgrade or reach the download page first seeing the OEM key and then onto the next for picking the 32bit or 64bit ISO downloads each seeing their own hash number. Here's how to get to them if you are already registered and logged into the Insider program.

First you arrive at the Insider Home Page and simply look at the two options for Getting started -phone and Getting started - PC and you know the obvious choice being PC. Then you arrive on the PC A preview for PC experts page and once again scroll down the page to the Download Windows 10 Technical Preview page and simply read the following where the link for the ISO files can be found and never clicking on the "Start upgrade now" button since that is for the online upgrade only!

Quote:
Follow these steps to download Technical Preview:
On the March Update page you arrive at from there you proceed to scroll down again to the Language selection links. You will notice the option to use the Windows Disc Image Burner link ahead of that however. And once you click on the language link of choice you will see the two 32bit and 64bit direct download links open under that.

Quote:
Download links

Product key: NKJFK-GPHP7-G8C3J-P6JXR-HQRJR

Show all
English (United States)


Editions Link to download SHA-1 hash value Windows 10 Technical Preview (x64) - Build 10041
(3.4 GB) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Windows 10 Technical Preview (x86) - Build 10041
(2.53 GB) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The Xs substitutes for the actual hash value for each found there. You have to be logged in however into the Insider Program account however in order to be able to get there.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 Mar 2015   #230
DavidE

Multi-Boot W7_Pro_x64 W8.1_Pro_x64 W10_Pro_x64
 
 

I didn't go through all that for the latest WTP Build ...

Thanks to Kari and John for making it simpler for me
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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