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Windows 7: Windows 10 worse than windows 8

24 Mar 2015   #231
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

Well you were mentioning not knowing where the downloads in iso form where to be found. That's MS for you! You have to take a long walk in the park to get anywhere unless you have developer access to things!

Presently the progree on VMPlayer 5.0.2 which is now back on but only shows "Other 64bit" not W10 being an older release that came out back when 8.1 was still in preview form the device setup reached a little higher before the freeze at 50% of the Getting devices ready. I resert the VM a couple of times and am watching the dots continue to spin in a circle doing nothing else suggesting a few versions newer but not the latest is likely going to be needed.

I still have 4.0.2-.5 versions as well as the 5.0.1 however to back even further if none of later versions work. The other option besides the physical install to the second OS drive available as far as on VM would be going with the 32bit for the look on VM there to save time.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 Mar 2015   #232
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18 MATE, W10IP VM, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Kari View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
That's because MS has a page saying sign in to your MS Account during the install.
There is no indication whatsoever that you can use a Local Account until you perform a bunch of extra clicks.

If it was the other way around there would less complaints.
I don't know, how difficult is it really? Task: create a local account to sign in to Windows. Choice to make: Either select Sign in to your MS Account, or select Create a new account.

Difficult to choose? In my opinion using common sense and logics is if not necessary but at least recommended.
Actually common sense dictates that your available options are:
  • Sign in with a MS email account
  • Create a new MS email account

Try your "common sense" approach on any web site and see what happens.
The web page sign up is the procedure most people will be familiar with.

What is the common sense and/or logical reason not to have all three Account options on the same page?

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ThrashZone View Post
Yep I believe it's just the wording,
I reinstalled win-8 a month or so ago and it was pretty straight forward Microsoft account and next to it was Local account.
Indeed.
I guess too many people were creating Local Accounts and so the procedure and wording had to be changed in W10.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
It is not the 2 extra clicks I am complaining about. It is the fact that you have to know that 2 extra clicks are required to get to the local account. There is no way of knowing that at the moment they want to force you into the MS account. It is at that time that both options should be clearly stated.
Exactly.
The only possible reason it doesn't say create Local Account at that stage of the install is to trick people into signing up to the "Cloud".

I bailed out at that page when I first tried to install b9841.
I pulled the network cable and then started the installation again.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
The initial installation does what now? local or Admin account?
No it's actually basically "MS Cloud" or "Other Cloud".
You only get a Local Account option after you choose "Other Cloud".
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 Mar 2015   #233
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

Quote:
I bailed out at that page when I first tried to install b9841.
I pulled the network cable and then started the installation again.
LOL. I did the same thing. In addition to giving both options on the same page, they should give a short explanation what the options imply - in a wording that mom and pap do understand.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

24 Mar 2015   #234
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18 MATE, W10IP VM, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
Quote:
I bailed out at that page when I first tried to install b9841.
I pulled the network cable and then started the installation again.
LOL. I did the same thing. In addition to giving both options on the same page, they should give a short explanation what the options imply - in a wording that mom and pap do understand.
It might need to be more than a short explanation.

I got tripped up when I tried to install LM17.1 on an external HDD.
I chose the "replace existing Linux install" instead of going to the "Disc Partition" option.
The installer helpfully installed LM17.1, after it had deleted all of the partitions on the disc and then formatted the entire it!

Luckily the other partition didn't have anything important on it ... only ~1TB of backup files!

Ever since people claimed that malware could infect your XP computer during the installation procedure, it has been my practice to always disconnect the network when installing Windows on a real PC.
I normally don't bother doing that with VMs.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
25 Mar 2015   #235
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
The initial installation does what now? local or Admin account?
No it's actually basically "MS Cloud" or "Other Cloud".
You only get a Local Account option after you choose "Other Cloud".
That's rather funny since the 32bit as I thought went right on it won't connect online! This is what you see when reaching the Create an account for this PC or with 7 along with previous version name for PC.



Notice you enter the name for the default user or admin account where you choose whether or not to assign a password or simply select the automatic login which bypasses the login prompt that would be seen on each start up. Instead you simply see the user name on the Welcome screen.



Now as far as not being too far removed being too new to be anything like 7 the initial look proved otherwise seeing the same "tweaks" like adding new quick launch tool bars with the main difference besides All apps instead of All programs on the new Start menu ending being a number of Metro style tiles bloating out sideways across the screen.



Now the thing to remember about this is that the VM installation here was from a stand alone ISO install set as the cd/dvd drive for the VM's settings over logging into an MS or Insider Program type account for an online installation which be the upgrade most likely.

Next will be the VBox install to see if the VM there will be able to connect online since something seems to be blocking the generic network adapter that needs to be worked out and could well be the av/firewall program at work.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
25 Mar 2015   #236
JDobbsy1987

Windows 8.1 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
Next will be the VBox install to see if the VM there will be able to connect online since something seems to be blocking the generic network adapter that needs to be worked out and could well be the av/firewall program at work.
I've not had an issue with network/internet access installing Win10 on VBox or Hyper-V

-Jamie
My System SpecsSystem Spec
25 Mar 2015   #237
Kari

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

 

I think I could somehow understand this debate if we were living in an Orwellian world where The Big Brother ordered even which operating system we have to use. However, as the use of Windows in general and the MS Account in particular is totally voluntary, I have no understanding for this.

Fellow geeks, keep in your mind that in your private life, on your private computers, you can freely select your operating system by yourself. Why use so much energy for complaining about something you don't want to install and use? Get a Mac, install any Linux, stop using Windows. It really is that simple.

Very chracteristic for this ongoing debate is the Windows 10 pricing. Some of the "Microsuck" propaganda was based on the price of the Windows both when "Let me keep my XP" users complained about Windows 7 and again when "I will never install Eight" users complained about Windows 8. Now when Microsoft announced that Windows 10 will be free for users of Seven and Eight, this element, price complaints were suddenly taken away from them. You'd thought that the discussion had been only positive after such a move but no, of course not; as I have said before, most of the resistance is really clearly only based on change, opposing change only for the sake of change without any really valid points. The opponents had to find a new argument when the price was taken out of the equation, so naturally now they started to complain about how wrong it is that this policy, Windows 10 for free, could make it possible that some pirates also got a free legal Windows.

Let's look at some facts:

 Cloud

Each and every Both of you geeks reading this are using cloud. A UK based company Designer Media Ltd. maintains these forums of ours on servers located in the USA. Everything is there, your avatar and the screenshots you have uploaded to your posts, the page frames and CSS files, each post, each word ever written in any section of the forums. When you clicked the title of this thread your local computer retrieved the data from the server in USA making it available to you wherever in the world you are. That is the very definition of cloud computing, storing the data somewhere else then using the correct tools, in this case a browser, to retrieve it to be used on a local computer.

The same with your email. Especially IMAP and Exchange mail protocols are pure cloud services; the messages are stored on a server from where you retrieve them to read on your local computer. YouTube, Netflix, Vimeo the same, you get data from a cloud streamed to your local computer. Gamers using Steam use cloud every time the Steam is running, and so on. Even checking the weather or reading the news is cloud based, the information stored and your request to get it handled on MSN Weather or CNN or what not, then presented to you on your local computer.

Regarding cloud services, the only difference between Windows XP & 7 compared to Windows 8 and later is that when using a Microsoft Account to sign in, the OneDrive storage, Mail and XBox apps work out-of-the-box and if you want to you can start installing software from the Windows Store. You can start backing up your files to OneDrive, get your emails and use your XBox games, music and videos without needing separately sign in to those services. That's it, that's the extent of the cloud in Windows 8 and later. By the way, of course it's totally up to you to decide if you want these services, you don't have to run OneDrive, Mail or XBox apps if you don't want to.

Those users who don't like the idea don't have to use any of these services. The same desktop software that they had installed on Seven can be installed in Eight and Ten and it can be used exactly as in Seven.

The absolutely only way not to use cloud services is never to connect to Internet. How fun or practical would that be?


 Local Account in Windows 8 and later

Since version 8 the Windows operating system is designed and meant to be used with a Microsoft Account. It is the default, the way it should be. It is of course natural that this, signing in with an existing MS Account or offering the option to create a new one are the ones which are preferred and shown as default.

However, Microsoft has made it very clear they do not force users to use an email account to sign in to Windows and given a quite an easy way to get around this and sign in with a local account. In my personal (and naturally quite subjective) opinion all these complaints about how difficult it is to sign in with a local account are ungrounded and invalid. Of course the selection is not there on the first dialog after the installation with 128 point bold and cursive font in blinking background. No, Windows is meant to be used with an MS Account.

But the option is there, easy to find and use. It is also well documented. Please forgive me to putting it this way but really, if a user do not bother to find out about this option and still is unable to find it, maybe this user really shouldn't use Windows at all due lacking capacity.

As the possibility to use a local account has remained about the same and can be done about as easy as it was in Windows 8, I have been really surprised to see and hear these complaints. Not a single post has been about "How nice that Microsoft continues supporting the non email based sign in in Windows 10". Why? This is also one of those things where the reason to a complaint has to be made up. I can almost see it when I close my eyes, a "Windows Sucks" geek sitting in front of his PC, thinking about what he should post now to show how much he hates it:

Quote:
"Can't complain about Microsoft forcing me to use a Microsoft Account because they still allow using a local account, so let's see if I can complain about something else. Oh yeah, seems that I need two extra mouse clicks for a local account, that's a good one, I'll start complaining about that".

 My recommendations

If you don't like whisky, drink beer. If you don't want to drive a Mazda, get a VW. If you don't like your spouse, get a divorce. If you hate spinach, don't eat it. If you don't like Windows 10, don't install it.

Kari
My System SpecsSystem Spec
25 Mar 2015   #238
DavidE

Multi-Boot W7_Pro_x64 W8.1_Pro_x64 W10_Pro_x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
Next will be the VBox install to see if the VM there will be able to connect online since something seems to be blocking the generic network adapter that needs to be worked out and could well be the av/firewall program at work.
In VMware machine settings you could try setting the Network Adapter to Bridged and see if that makes a difference.

For whatever reason changing this setting from the default NAT to Bridged makes a difference for me ... performance and reliability is much better ...

It's quick and easy change you could test first, before messing with av/firewall settings.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
25 Mar 2015   #239
ThrashZone

Win-7-Pro64bit 7-H-Prem-64bit
 
 

Good point these services work perfectly well "cloud" if treated as a website and often work better with fewer issues as websites to go to and do what you want and when/ Manually upload ....

This website as you eloquently refer to does not have a sync option possibly John will someday
My System SpecsSystem Spec
25 Mar 2015   #240
Kari

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

 

Sync is not what makes cloud, although this website kind of have it; let's say you change the skin or upload a new avatar, they are "synced" and the new skin and avatar shown whatever browser on whatever PC you use to check these forums. If the data were stored only locally instead of the cloud, you'd have to do the changes separately on each PC.

By the definition the cloud includes anything where the centrally stored data is retrieved over the network to be used / shown / edited / run on your local computer.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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