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Windows 7: Any ideas on how to replace Segoe UI 9pt with Tahoma 8?

10 May 2010   #11
Eric G

Windows 7 x64

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by myfreexp View Post
Well, what I meant, was: If you're switching to classic theme, then I believe that the values stored in the aero.msstyles file have nil effect (and in this case the defaut font size must be stored somewhere else - registry most likely).
You're right, the Windows Classic Theme, as well as the other Basic and High Contrast Themes, don't use aero.msstyles. In fact, they don't use a .msstyles file at all, which I figured out by opening classic.theme in Notepad. Since Vista Style Builder doesn't support editing .theme files and since I have no idea where classic.theme pulls it's values from, I can't help you there, unfortunately.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by myfreexp View Post
IMHO not a good idea on an LCD notebook display with a native resolution - things will get blurry. Also setting the display to 125% or so is not a good option (that's why I'm here...)
I've heard that before yet I haven't had any experience with it as my only laptop is crisp at any resolution. After installing Windows 7 on my desktop, however, I did set my desktop LCD to 1024x768 because I was having trouble reading the text at the monitor's native resolution of 1280x1024. After switching the resolution, everything was incredibly blurry, but that was only at a refresh rate of 60 Hz. For some reason, setting the monitor to 75 Hz (which is my only other option) cleared everything right up. Strangely, I did not have this issue in Windows XP. If you haven't already, I'd recommend lowering your resolution and then playing around with the refresh rate. I suppose I should have clarified this earlier, sorry about that. If things are still blurry, I guess modifying the aero.msstyles file is your only option.

I did think about changing the DPI (which is the 125% thing) when you first mentioned your problem, but I remembered that it didn't do me any good as it resizes everything and not just text, so I didn't even bother to mention it. Plus I figured you probably already knew about it.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by myfreexp View Post
As to Visual Style Builder and your installer: Isn't there an officially supported way to implement a second, third etc. etc. style in Win7?
I don't know if the method I'm thinking of is officially documented anywhere, but it does work. It is also unrelated to Vista Style Builder and my installer. As I mentioned in the Windows Aero (Tahoma Font) Manual Installation Instructions (wow, that is long winded) it is possible to use multiple versions of aero.msstyles after only a few steps. Here's the relevant part, reformatted and with some slight additions:
  1. Make a copy of C:\Windows\Resources\Themes\Aero\ and rename the folder to something different, such as "Aero Tahoma".
    • Do not rename any of the files in the folder. While it is possible to rename them and retain full functionality, all relevant files must be renamed. In my initial implementation of Tahoma in the Aero Theme (known as Aero Theme (Fixed)) I made the mistake of renaming them and unfortunately missed one file, causing a visual bug.
  2. Replace the aero.msstyles in your new folder with your custom .msstyles file. Make sure that your custom file is also named aero.msstyles unless you are renaming the other files in your new folder as well.
  3. Make a copy of the desired Aero-based .theme file (located in C:\Windows\Resources\Themes\) and rename it to whatever you would like. For example: "architecture-tahoma-9pt.theme"
  4. The new .theme file will have to be edited (this can be done in Notepad) to point to the proper aero.msstyles.
    1. Under the [Theme] section, change DisplayName to whatever you desire. For example: "DisplayName=Architecture - Tahoma 9pt".
    2. Under the [VisualStyles], change the Path to point to the appropriate .msstyles file. For example: "Path=%ResourceDir%\Themes\Aero Tahoma 9pt\Aero.msstyles"
You will need to change every single .theme file that you wish to use with the custom .msstyles file. The reason that I didn't do this with the Windows Aero (Tahoma Font) Installer and instead replaced the original aero.msstyles file was to achieve compatibility with third-party themes. I felt that it would be way too much to ask the average use to edit their .theme files.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by myfreexp View Post
I hoped that Vista Style builder would be able not only to create styles, but also to install them properly. But when I save a style and confirm the question if I now want to use it with the "Use Visual Style" button, nothing noticeable happens. Or am I missing something here...? Not sure, what "use" exactly means in this respect: "Use" it in the Style Builder or in Win7?
I think that it means "Use in Windows" and I assume that this issue is just a bug. Since multiple .msstyles files can be implemented at once, as described above, I didn't bother looking for a solution. If you're still interested, try the Vista Style Builder Forums. It's quite likely that there's already a solution for this problem.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by myfreexp View Post
Following your instructions for a manual installation, I realized that some system files need to be patched (which works well, BTW). But what if these files will be overwritten some day by MS update? Then they need to be patched again, don't they?
Yup, you're right about the files needing to be repatched if a Windows Update ever overwrites them. Though as far as I know, it is very unlikely that will ever happen. If it does, just do a search for deepxw. Hopefully he/she will have a new version of Universal Theme Patcher in such an event. If not, I'm sure someone else will take care of it.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by myfreexp View Post
Also, I sometimes get a compilation error when trying to save a style. At a second attempt, it suddenly works (although I didn't change anything in the style)
I've noticed this as well. It doesn't seem to be an issue since, as you said, .msstyles files are savable if you just keep trying.

Even if you have no further issues in solving your problem, please let me know how it goes.

My System SpecsSystem Spec
25 Nov 2012   #12

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
Make Tahoma 8pt in Windows 8

This's one of closest solution that I test in my Win8 Pro and it's ok. Not all font in Windows interface display without ClearType, but all menu, title and general place work well in Tahoma 8pt.

Attached file contains 3 reg files:
  • NoSegoe - Tahoma.reg (NoSegoe --> Tahoma)
  • NoSegoe - Restore Segoe UI.reg (Restore default)
  • WindowMetricsFontSizeWin8.reg (tricky part, that set all GUI font size to 8pt. Without this tweak, Tahoma looks unatural in large/different font size). This file exported from a Win7 system with Tahoma 8pt displays just right. And Windows 8 assign same value of these entries in registry, so your task just import.

Restart PC. Tested in windows 8 pro. (As said above, haevn't found a solution to completely get rid of Cleartype in whole Win8 interface, only 70-80%. Tweak for Cleartype disable you easily find out in this forum or google, which not includes in attached rar file at the moment).

Only thing remain, that how made IE10 (desktop mode) render website without Cleartype. As I test, the wrap dll trick in IE9 doesn't affect IE10 at all (maybe they change the way Windows DirectWrite and Direct2D APIs render hardware-accelerated text using sub-pixel Microsoft ClearType in web browser).

Attached Files
File Type: rar Tahoma8pt.regTweak.rar (1.3 KB, 210 views)
My System SpecsSystem Spec
18 Mar 2013   #13

WinXP, Win7, Win8

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by nnq2603 View Post
Not all font in Windows interface display without ClearType

(As said above, haevn't found a solution to completely get rid of Cleartype in whole Win8 interface, only 70-80%.
Please let us know if you figure it out. Windows 7 looks great as soon as I turn off the font smoothing. 8 is all over the place.
My System SpecsSystem Spec

24 Oct 2013   #14

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
Just use it or ignore it :)

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by toronado View Post
Not all font in Windows interface display without ClearType

(As said above, haven't found a solution to completely get rid of Cleartype in whole Win8 interface, only 70-80%.
Please let us know if you figure it out. Windows 7 looks great as soon as I turn off the font smoothing. 8 is all over the place.
The tweak above with 80% fonts (those most appeared ones..) display on Windows interface is more than enough to use daily. And I use it for a long time without problem. If you only use once it got 100% appearance than just leave it.. because not gonna happen. I feel comfortable with this simple tweak and no longer work on it. So far, there're >100 downloads, which means someone else might use it. And it's enough for me.

There's Win 8.1 already, and I haven't test this but assume it no change much. And this tweak still applicable. And seem nowaday, people don't find it a issue anymore, more and more people just feel default font just right (which maybe actually right for their screen, eyes, etc...)
My System SpecsSystem Spec

 Any ideas on how to replace Segoe UI 9pt with Tahoma 8?

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