Windows Games For Live (Fallout 3 and GTAIV)

So i now have one more reason to hate microsoft.

I got both games to install, GTAIV asked me to install GFWL and i did. When i run both these games, it brings me to a windows live login screen.

When i type in my hotmail account, it says downloading profile, but then it says it can't connect and something about firewall or router.

so after DRM'in my router....didn't work. I then direct connected to my modem....didn't work.....

Then i tried using the GFWL standalone program....didn't work, said it couldn't connect to remote server.

Then i thought ok, maybe since im using my hotmail account i was sopposed to make a NEW account or something, so i check out the offical website and i click on join now.........PAGE NOT FOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.microsoft.com/games/en-US.../livejoin.aspx

https://live.xbox.com/en-US/signup/U...ages/live.aspx

Deep down, and even not so deep, i want to boycott everything that has to do with bill gates he is ruining gaming trying to play my games shouldn't make me feel like im taking a college course, it also shouldn't make me feel like im living in a police state or prison cell

anyways just ignore my rantings, but if you could help me with my software problem that would be great, i checked the games list and both of these games are listed as working, so im really confused here

There was a mandatory server update from MS on the 16th June which effected Windows and Xbox LIVE.

You were just unlucky to install on that day.

I hate Microsoft for that reason, have to install the stupid Gfwl to play the game, it should be like other games, where you just install the game to play single player

i guess it was the server update that was messing me up.........however i now have another problem i can't play any of my games online that use GFWL

i can see the game server lists, but down at the bottom it says my nat is to strict

and in the GFWL settings for network it lists my UPNP as off or w/e, and it says my nat is strict there too

YET, i don't have this problem with any other online game....WTF! why does this retarded program have problems with NAT

in my linksys router BEFSR41 vs. 4.3 with updated firmware.....i have UPNP ON, i have my computer in DMZ, and i also tried setting port forwarding ontop of that, i also tried setting my network controller on my computer to a static IP

and i refuse to direct connect my computer to my modem because theres a reason i bought a router......

i really should email rockstar and demand a refund for this crap, oh and GFWL is fully updated as is GTAIV.......................

imagine that all i had to do was TURN OFF UPNP on my router for it to work

there isn't a bypass to it, well not for multiplayer anyway. if you do manage to bypass live for online you won't be playing on the offical servers which means you won't be playing with very many people

you you do manage to bypass it and there is a good community around it then please let me know lol

i think im going to email rockstar just to voice my opinion to them, not that my opinion matters to them tho