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Windows 7: Is PC gaming Being Done Away With?

30 Sep 2012   #81
sygnus21

Windows 10 Pro
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by vv211 View Post
also the thing about piraters, is they likely wouldn't buy the game even if there wasn't a pirated copy available, so the companies aren't losing money, as sales aren't being stolen.
I'm a bit confused by your statement but to be clear...

Anytime something is stolen/pirated you're losing potential sales. Whether the company knows about the lost revenue is an entirely different issue.

If I put out a game and 10 people pirate it, even though I don't know the game is pirated, that's 10 potential sales I've lost because 10 people have a game that I intended to sale.

Whether the pirates were going to buy the game or not is also irrelevant because the fact still remains there are 10 pirated copies out there, thus 10 lost sales for me.

People tend to think that because the item is digital thereís no harm or lost revenue because the company can just make more copies. This is a fallacy because as more and more pirated copies float around, less and less sales are made.

When a company sees that there are 20 million copies of their game circulating but theyíve only profited from 10 million, thatís a clear indication theyíve lost money.

I donít know how anybody canít see that as thievery or robbery.

My two cents.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
30 Sep 2012   #82
Richardc269

Windows 7 Ultimate 32-Bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by vv211 View Post
also the thing about piraters, is they likely wouldn't buy the game even if there wasn't a pirated copy available, so the companies aren't losing money, as sales aren't being stolen.
I'm a bit confused by your statement but to be clear...

Anytime something is stolen/pirated you're losing potential sales. Whether the company knows about the lost revenue is an entirely different issue.

If I put out a game and 10 people pirate it, even though I don't know the game is pirated, that's 10 potential sales I've lost because 10 people have a game that I intended to sale.

Whether the pirates were going to buy the game or not is also irrelevant because the fact still remains there are 10 pirated copies out there, thus 10 lost sales for me.

People tend to think that because the item is digital thereís no harm or lost revenue because the company can just make more copies. This is a fallacy because as more and more pirated copies float around, less and less sales are made.

When a company sees that there are 20 million copies of their game circulating but theyíve only profited from 10 million, thatís a clear indication theyíve lost money.

I donít know how anybody canít see that as thievery or robbery.

My two cents.
Yeah, it is lost sales. They're trying to sell it. If the consumer pirates it and doesn't buy it, then it's a lost sale. But if they pirate it, and decide to buy it later, it's pretty much an increase in their money.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Oct 2012   #83
vv211

Windows 7 Professional x64 w/SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by vv211 View Post
also the thing about piraters, is they likely wouldn't buy the game even if there wasn't a pirated copy available, so the companies aren't losing money, as sales aren't being stolen.
I'm a bit confused by your statement but to be clear...

Anytime something is stolen/pirated you're losing potential sales. Whether the company knows about the lost revenue is an entirely different issue.

If I put out a game and 10 people pirate it, even though I don't know the game is pirated, that's 10 potential sales I've lost because 10 people have a game that I intended to sale.

Whether the pirates were going to buy the game or not is also irrelevant because the fact still remains there are 10 pirated copies out there, thus 10 lost sales for me.

People tend to think that because the item is digital thereís no harm or lost revenue because the company can just make more copies. This is a fallacy because as more and more pirated copies float around, less and less sales are made.

When a company sees that there are 20 million copies of their game circulating but theyíve only profited from 10 million, thatís a clear indication theyíve lost money.

I donít know how anybody canít see that as thievery or robbery.

My two cents.
Any games that I may or may not have pirated, I wouldn't have purchased at any point, so there was no "potential sale" lost there.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

01 Oct 2012   #84
bobafetthotmail

Win 7 Pro 64-bit 7601
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
If I put out a game and 10 people pirate it, even though I don't know the game is pirated, that's 10 potential sales I've lost because 10 people have a game that I intended to sale.
What if the 10 people pirating it would NEVER EVER buy it from you anyway? (that means buying used CDs or well after it's new or from shady ebay sellers, or simply they hate you/your-company)

For the record, I know a lot of people that are like this, and most studies about piracy done in poorer countries (and guys living there posting on forums I visit) reveal that it's very prevalent. (in the US it's 15% in the EU it's 30%, in the rest of the world is around 60% but lots of nations have spikes up to 90%)
Lots of people are either too poor or not otherwise inclined to buy regardless.
Also because of idiotic price variation practices like say Adobe products or legit-user-bashing DRM like most games have nowadays.

It's still wrong, as it's still theft.
But it's not lost profit in this particular case, as they weren't potential customers to begin with.

So even if you magically stopped piracy somehow, sales ain't gonna boost by so much as they would expect.

Quote:
But if they pirate it, and decide to buy it later, it's pretty much an increase in their money.
This happens as well, but it's generally a minority.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Oct 2012   #85
Richardc269

Windows 7 Ultimate 32-Bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobafetthotmail View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
If I put out a game and 10 people pirate it, even though I don't know the game is pirated, that's 10 potential sales I've lost because 10 people have a game that I intended to sale.
What if the 10 people pirating it would NEVER EVER buy it from you anyway? (that means buying used CDs or well after it's new or from shady ebay sellers, or simply they hate you/your-company)

For the record, I know a lot of people that are like this, and most studies about piracy done in poorer countries (and guys living there posting on forums I visit) reveal that it's very prevalent. (in the US it's 15% in the EU it's 30%, in the rest of the world is around 60% but lots of nations have spikes up to 90%)
Lots of people are either too poor or not otherwise inclined to buy regardless.
Also because of idiotic price variation practices like say Adobe products or legit-user-bashing DRM like most games have nowadays.

It's still wrong, as it's still theft.
But it's not lost profit in this particular case, as they weren't potential customers to begin with.

So even if you magically stopped piracy somehow, sales ain't gonna boost by so much as they would expect.

Quote:
But if they pirate it, and decide to buy it later, it's pretty much an increase in their money.
This happens as well, but it's generally a minority.
I really didn't know it was so high in other countries, but now that you say it that way, it makes a lot more sense. Take me for instance; I don't have an income, therefore I can't buy games in the first place (unless I ask someone else and it's at a low price at the store). If someone doesn't have the money (nor will they in the future), then they are more likely to pirate the software.

Edit: And the poor people who are pirating it are more likely not caring about the money aspect. For me though, if it's a company that I don't like (Bioware, EA, Blizzard), then I honestly couldn't care less if they make any money or not. They're liars and extortionists in the first place (in my point of view), hence I honestly think they deserve it for being shady dealers in the first place.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Oct 2012   #86
AstaLaVista

Windows 7 x64 (Ultimate)
 
 

This used to be the norm... you would play a demo and buy or not buy from playing it.

Now, this is the newe norm... preorder/buy the shoddy/unoptimized console port, wait a few month for patches to see whether it will fix your issues or just move on to the next one and hope for the best. And the majority of you see this as legal?


And sorry, the answer is not... well, don't buy it then! That is just so wrong as well. How about, make this phuckers finish their games before they put it for sale?

Giving that answer is so stupid as... how else do you know whether that shoddy/unoptimized console port can be even installed on your computer, let alone playable if there is no way to test it? Have you gone to the Ubisoft Forums for GRFS, GRAW, GRAW2, Vegas, Vegas 2 and read about the way Ubi treats their customer base? Hell, even the consoles are having issues now!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Oct 2012   #87
sygnus21

Windows 10 Pro
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Richardc269 View Post
I really didn't know it was so high in other countries, but now that you say it that way, it makes a lot more sense. Take me for instance; I don't have an income, therefore I can't buy games in the first place (unless I ask someone else and it's at a low price at the store). If someone doesn't have the money (nor will they in the future), then they are more likely to pirate the software.

Edit: And the poor people who are pirating it are more likely not caring about the money aspect. For me though, if it's a company that I don't like (Bioware, EA, Blizzard), then I honestly couldn't care less if they make any money or not. They're liars and extortionists in the first place (in my point of view), hence I honestly think they deserve it for being shady dealers in the first place.
I'm not going to get into income disparity as it's a subject near and dear to me.

That said do I justify robbery because I'm broke? We're talking an unnecessary item here, not food or clothing.

Anyway if this was the only source of piracy, itíd be a lot easier to buy, but the fact is, there are many who have the wherewithal to purchase many games over but pirate because they can, or see nothing wrong with it.

And so as not to be a hypocrite, back in the late 90ís when I first got into computers just about everyone I knew, including me, pirated software. My first computer had all sorts of pirated games and software, including my OS.

Somewhere around the early 2000ís I decided to start purchasing my software for fear of viruses. From that point on I havenít pirated anything. Also being a photographer with my own website I know Iíve had images stolenÖ. Thus lost income.

So yeah, I donít condone piracy as I now have a better understanding how it leads to lost income, and is just plain wrong.

Anyway we can go back and forth on this all day so Iíll just bow out as both sides have their reasons for doing what they do.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Oct 2012   #88
M1GU31

Windows 10 64bit
 
 

I think we should end it,getting out of hand.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Oct 2012   #89
dejavecue

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Richardc269 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobafetthotmail View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
If I put out a game and 10 people pirate it, even though I don't know the game is pirated, that's 10 potential sales I've lost because 10 people have a game that I intended to sale.
What if the 10 people pirating it would NEVER EVER buy it from you anyway? (that means buying used CDs or well after it's new or from shady ebay sellers, or simply they hate you/your-company)

For the record, I know a lot of people that are like this, and most studies about piracy done in poorer countries (and guys living there posting on forums I visit) reveal that it's very prevalent. (in the US it's 15% in the EU it's 30%, in the rest of the world is around 60% but lots of nations have spikes up to 90%)
Lots of people are either too poor or not otherwise inclined to buy regardless.
Also because of idiotic price variation practices like say Adobe products or legit-user-bashing DRM like most games have nowadays.

It's still wrong, as it's still theft.
But it's not lost profit in this particular case, as they weren't potential customers to begin with.

So even if you magically stopped piracy somehow, sales ain't gonna boost by so much as they would expect.

Quote:
But if they pirate it, and decide to buy it later, it's pretty much an increase in their money.
This happens as well, but it's generally a minority.
I really didn't know it was so high in other countries, but now that you say it that way, it makes a lot more sense. Take me for instance; I don't have an income, therefore I can't buy games in the first place (unless I ask someone else and it's at a low price at the store). If someone doesn't have the money (nor will they in the future), then they are more likely to pirate the software.

Edit: And the poor people who are pirating it are more likely not caring about the money aspect. For me though, if it's a company that I don't like (Bioware, EA, Blizzard), then I honestly couldn't care less if they make any money or not. They're liars and extortionists in the first place (in my point of view), hence I honestly think they deserve it for being shady dealers in the first place.


I understand your point of view because back when I was in school and had only a small allowance, whenever I would think about buying a game I tossed that idea around for 2 months before actually making the purchase. I wanted to get something I was really sure about for my money.

However, piracy is piracy, even if you don't like EA or so. It is still their intellectual property and NOTHING gives you the right to pirate their stuff.

I worked for three years and bought many games I had pirated before, partly because I felt guilty, partly because I had a lot of disposable income.
I quit my job and now I am student and I am happy to have made those purchases, but I am back to only buying a game whenever I am really sure (which is basically to say: Only when it's made by Blizzard, because they are the only ones that deliver high quality games that are nearly bug-free and awesome). I don't pirate other games though.

Personally I find it terrible that most publishers don't offer demos anymore. For example I was incredibly excited about Max Payne 3, as both its predecessors were really good. I followed the developers on Twitter and watched every gameplay video I could get my hands on.
Then there was no demo for the game and I was unsure. I didn't want to shell out 60Ä for a game I did not know whether I would enjoy it or not. I had no legal way of testing it out.
So, I downloaded an illegal copy, played for 5 minutes (what I thought would be as far as a usual demo might take me), was horribly disappointed by it and deleted it again.

I don't feel good about it, but I kind of had to do it this way. But let me assure you, had I found the game enjoyable I would have deleted it and bought it. Sadly, it sucked and I merely deleted it without buying.

Is this trend of not releasing a demo for the reason of hiding that the game is crappy?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Oct 2012   #90
Solarstarshines

Windows 10 Home Premium 64bit sp1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dejavecue View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Richardc269 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobafetthotmail View Post
What if the 10 people pirating it would NEVER EVER buy it from you anyway? (that means buying used CDs or well after it's new or from shady ebay sellers, or simply they hate you/your-company)

For the record, I know a lot of people that are like this, and most studies about piracy done in poorer countries (and guys living there posting on forums I visit) reveal that it's very prevalent. (in the US it's 15% in the EU it's 30%, in the rest of the world is around 60% but lots of nations have spikes up to 90%)
Lots of people are either too poor or not otherwise inclined to buy regardless.
Also because of idiotic price variation practices like say Adobe products or legit-user-bashing DRM like most games have nowadays.

It's still wrong, as it's still theft.
But it's not lost profit in this particular case, as they weren't potential customers to begin with.

So even if you magically stopped piracy somehow, sales ain't gonna boost by so much as they would expect.

This happens as well, but it's generally a minority.
I really didn't know it was so high in other countries, but now that you say it that way, it makes a lot more sense. Take me for instance; I don't have an income, therefore I can't buy games in the first place (unless I ask someone else and it's at a low price at the store). If someone doesn't have the money (nor will they in the future), then they are more likely to pirate the software.

Edit: And the poor people who are pirating it are more likely not caring about the money aspect. For me though, if it's a company that I don't like (Bioware, EA, Blizzard), then I honestly couldn't care less if they make any money or not. They're liars and extortionists in the first place (in my point of view), hence I honestly think they deserve it for being shady dealers in the first place.


I understand your point of view because back when I was in school and had only a small allowance, whenever I would think about buying a game I tossed that idea around for 2 months before actually making the purchase. I wanted to get something I was really sure about for my money.

However, piracy is piracy, even if you don't like EA or so. It is still their intellectual property and NOTHING gives you the right to pirate their stuff.

I worked for three years and bought many games I had pirated before, partly because I felt guilty, partly because I had a lot of disposable income.
I quit my job and now I am student and I am happy to have made those purchases, but I am back to only buying a game whenever I am really sure (which is basically to say: Only when it's made by Blizzard, because they are the only ones that deliver high quality games that are nearly bug-free and awesome). I don't pirate other games though.

Personally I find it terrible that most publishers don't offer demos anymore. For example I was incredibly excited about Max Payne 3, as both its predecessors were really good. I followed the developers on Twitter and watched every gameplay video I could get my hands on.
Then there was no demo for the game and I was unsure. I didn't want to shell out 60€ for a game I did not know whether I would enjoy it or not. I had no legal way of testing it out.
So, I downloaded an illegal copy, played for 5 minutes (what I thought would be as far as a usual demo might take me), was horribly disappointed by it and deleted it again.

I don't feel good about it, but I kind of had to do it this way. But let me assure you, had I found the game enjoyable I would have deleted it and bought it. Sadly, it sucked and I merely deleted it without buying.

Is this trend of not releasing a demo for the reason of hiding that the game is crappy?

Now days it is too hard to find out if the game is crappy or not so much hype put into these things it is Insane

Even the Gamer reviews suck best way you'll ever find out how good a game is to play it off someone who has it already that way you can use it legaly and see if it is worth your dollar

There is always a legal way also just another thought if most of us use say steam if you bought the game and it sucked just simply trade it to someone who wants it and get you something from them that wil make you happy

There is always a positive against a negative I Have La Noire up for Steam trade it is a perfectly fine game i never got it to work if someone has a steam game they want to trade for it im all ears just PM me
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 Is PC gaming Being Done Away With?




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