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11-16-2010
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#1 | | |
Calling home  Information Please notice this post is only my own, personal and subjective opinion. I feel this subject is important enough to clearly voice my opinion, although I do not want to start an argument. We've had them enough.
Like ET in Spielberg’s epic movie, today’s computers want to call home. Like ET, they would like to do it without us humans knowing but are forced to ask our help. Reasons are many, from validity checks and crash reports to check if software or OS needs updates installed. One common reason is various Customer Experience programs, software companies collecting information on how we users use their software and which problems we might have with it.
Most of these home calls are completely automatic once we have opted-in, given permission to an application or OS to call home when need arises. Choosing automatic updates in Windows gives it a permission to call home to Microsoft, check if Windows and other Microsoft software is up to date, and install updates when needed. Most well designed, well coded third party applications can also do the same if we have enabled automatic updates.
This issue, computers calling home, got new wind under its wings last February when Microsoft published an update to Windows 7. Update for Windows Activation Technologies (KB971033) was not only designed to check you are running a valid and correctly activated copy of Windows, but is was also coded to call home every now and then, to check that the validity status of Windows installation had not changed.
Windows themed forums were suddenly full of complaints. My home in the Interwebs, The Seven Forums got its share; thread after thread full with complaints. The consensus was that it’s user who should decide what to install, not Windows Update or Microsoft. Some of us tried to offer another approach, to tell that if you have a valid, legal setup, there’s nothing to be afraid of. A few second or so home call without user even noticing them, what’s the problem?
Although installing WAT update voluntarily as soon as it was possible, I can understand those who opposed it. Opponents were and are the same users who have for instance protested against Google’s way to call home, collect information and statistics without normal user even knowing it. These pro-privacy advocates get my sympathy and respect. The other significant opponent group is the pirates, common criminals who steal what they need, even software running on their computers and Lady Gaga singing in their iPods. These people get my antipathy and disrespect.
I have decided, long time ago, to let most of my software to call home. I have a short list of companies I have decided to trust that they are not trying to find out my personal passwords, PIN codes, internet banking credentials or my personal photos. My list includes companies like Microsoft, Norton, F-Secure, Adobe, Google, Skype, and so on. Products of these companies can always call home when they want to.
I have even taken this a bit further by joining a Customer Experience Program whenever it’s possible if the company belongs to my A-list. Why? Because I love Windows 7! Without the huge army of beta testers and users who joined Vista’s and Seven Beta's and RC's Customer Experience Programs Seven wouldn’t be what it is. The final product you and me are using is not only because those coders in Redmond, it’s also because Microsoft could get so much reports from users. And they listened. If Microsoft wants to get an occasional report from my computer, my Seven can call home whenever it (she?) wants to.
If you are running a valid Windows setup and you want to help to create an even better next generation Windows, join Microsoft Customer Experience Improvement Program. This Seven Forums tutorial tells how. More information on CEIP here.
Almost all new software have something similar. Just to give one example, here’s how to join Windows Live CEIP from Live Messenger:
Finally, don’t automatically believe everything I say. Don’t automatically believe all counter arguments you hear. Find out yourself. Here are a few spoilers, un-truths surprisingly often heard: - Microsoft is not interested in what you and neighbour's wife are doing when secretly chatting
- Microsoft does not watch you through your webcam
- Mister Ballmer couldn’t care less if he had your Citibank's internet banking credentials
- Multinational software companies are not interested in finding your social security number and mother’s maiden name
- No company cares what you were doing when that photo was taken
- Participating for instance Microsoft CEIP does not make your computer or Internet connection slower, nor does it fill your HD or Windows Registry
Kari
Last edited by Kari; 01-25-2011 at 05:48 PM..
| My System Specs | | System Manufacturer/Model Number HP ENVY 17-1150eg OS Windows 7 x64 Ultimate CPU 1.6 GHz Intel Core i7-720QM Processor Memory 6 GB Graphics Card ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5850 Graphics Sound Card Beats sound system with integrated subwoofer Monitor(s) Displays 17" laptop display, 22" LCD and 32" Full HD TV through HDMI Screen Resolution 1600*900, 1680*1050 and 1920*1080 Keyboard Logitech diNovo Media Desktop Laser (bluetooth) Mouse Logitech MX1000 Laser (Bluetooth) Hard Drives Internal: 2 x 500 GB SATA Hard Disk Drive 7200 rpm
External: 2TB for backups, 3TB USB3 network drive for media Internet Speed 50/10 Mbps VDSL Other Info Windows 7 Ultimate Retail Full in English, additional Guest-user accounts in Finnish, German and Swedish (Working languages English & Swedish, Family language German, my own language, mother tongue, Finnish. I really need Ultimate to get to use Language Packs!) |
11-16-2010
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#2 | | |
Hi Kari -
So glad to see you back in fine form.
I only care about performance and tend to want nothing extra that will put even a nick in CPU/RAM, Startup Time or bother me.
For that reason I edit msconfig>Startup list to the bone, only permitting AV and gadgets/stickies.
I find that the Adobes/Javas will find a way to notify me of Updates when they are called to run.
However I really appreciate the interactivity of Windows 7's Problem solving feature which will now deliver fixes when problems aren't even reported. If that were somehow enhanced by joining something then I am certainly not opposed and would help spread the word.
I am a Windows 7 guy before anything else tech-wise, because Windows 7 now equals superb performance and that is all I ever wanted. | My System Specs | | |
11-16-2010
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#3 | | |
Greg, I hope you already know it but you are one those good guys I respect. The above was and is only one single mans personal approach, these thoughts tonight triggered because I can finally move a bit and booted my desktop first time in almost three months.I think it will be updating all night...
Anyways, I installed Live 2011 replacing Live Beta, and searching the CEIP switch to turn it on, suddenly remembered our heated WAT debate back in February. I just took a pot of coffee beside me and wrote what I was thinking.
One man, one way to do things. Another man, another way.
Peace, Man
Kari | My System Specs | | System Manufacturer/Model Number HP ENVY 17-1150eg OS Windows 7 x64 Ultimate CPU 1.6 GHz Intel Core i7-720QM Processor Memory 6 GB Graphics Card ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5850 Graphics Sound Card Beats sound system with integrated subwoofer Monitor(s) Displays 17" laptop display, 22" LCD and 32" Full HD TV through HDMI Screen Resolution 1600*900, 1680*1050 and 1920*1080 Keyboard Logitech diNovo Media Desktop Laser (bluetooth) Mouse Logitech MX1000 Laser (Bluetooth) Hard Drives Internal: 2 x 500 GB SATA Hard Disk Drive 7200 rpm
External: 2TB for backups, 3TB USB3 network drive for media Internet Speed 50/10 Mbps VDSL Other Info Windows 7 Ultimate Retail Full in English, additional Guest-user accounts in Finnish, German and Swedish (Working languages English & Swedish, Family language German, my own language, mother tongue, Finnish. I really need Ultimate to get to use Language Packs!) |
11-16-2010
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#4 | | Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 |
Well written Kari.
There are a lot paranoid people out there that believe everything is out to get you. While it's true you should always take proper precautions about what you let in and out of your computer, some things such as this only serves to help make Windows a better product for us all since they cannot possibly duplicate every different type of system and how Windows may run on it. Plus, the phone calls home to help make sure a pirate does not stay activated only helps to keep the costs of Windows down when we buy it and future releases. | My System Specs | | System Manufacturer/Model Number Self built custom OS Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 CPU Intel i7-980X 3.3 Ghz (3.48 Ghz OC'd) Motherboard ASUS P6X58D Premium Memory 12 GB (2GBx6) DDR3 PC3-16000 2000 MHz Kingston HyperX Graphics Card Sapphire HD5870 Eyefinity 6 2GB Sound Card Realtek HD Audio ALC889 Integrated Chip Monitor(s) Displays 3x 27" Asus VE278Q Screen Resolution 1920x1080 Keyboard Logitech Cordless Desktop MX 5500 Revolution Mouse Logitech Cordless Desktop MX 5500 Revolution PSU OCZ Series Gold OCZZ1000M 1000W Case Corsair Obsidian 800D Cooling Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme Copper CPU heat sink w/120 MM Hard Drives 160GB OCZ RevoDrive X2
** 2 x 1TB Samsung HDD HD154UI SATA Internet Speed 50 Mb/s Download and 2 Mb/s Upload Other Info Microsoft LifeCam Cinema
** Lite-On iHBS212 12x BD Writer
** Samsung CLX-3175FW Printer
** Netgear WNDR3800 Router
** Motorola SBG6580 Cable Modem
** 2x APC Back-UPS XS 1500 |
11-16-2010
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#5 | | Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit |
Great post Kari.  I was always told to respect other peoples beliefs since I was just a boy. ( 40 some years later ) Always enjoy your post. GL | My System Specs | | System Manufacturer/Model Number Toshiba Satellite OS Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit CPU Pentium(R) Dual-Core T4300 @ 2.10GHz Motherboard Toshiba Model KSWAA - Chipset Intel GL40 Rev 07 Memory 3 GB DDR2 PC2-6400 (400 MHz) Samsung M4 70T2864Q23-CF7 Graphics Card Mobile Intel GMA4500M 32bit OS (64bit OS) dynamically Sound Card Realtek ALC272-GR Software Sound Monitor(s) Displays 16.0" HD TFT with TrueBrite Matrix colour LCD display Screen Resolution 1366 x 768 Keyboard Canadian Bilingual Keyboard 105 keys with 13 Function keys Mouse Touchpad Point device & Lexma USB Mouse Hard Drives FUJITSU MJA2320BH G2-(S2) 320GB (5400RPM) Serial-ATA Internet Speed Walking is Faster Other Info Wireless LAN Realtek RTL89191SE 802.11n PCI-E NIC + a
LAN Realek PCIe FE Family Controller and
TOSHIBA Software Modem |
11-16-2010
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#6 | | |
Thanks for posting, Kari. I can't say I completely agree with everything you've said, nor do I agree with the vehemently vocal opposition. My opinion exists somewhere in between. I do tend to trust MS and some other companies, but I don't kid myself regarding two issues:
1) Corporate lust for personal data that can be used for marketing purposes.
2) The potential abuse for that same marketing data by corporations and Government.
Especially where the Government is concerned.
Society is changing by the minute, and Information Technology is, in large part, the driving force. Privacy issues are rampant. Some are a trade off for our safety (one example being TSA, hassles in flight travel, etc), but make no mistake that liberties are on the table. I don't see this getting better, on the contrary, it will grow worse. Something we must find a way to live with (within reason).
I believe that there must be some form of regulation asserted to protect 'the people', but I'm not holding my breath.
I don't foresee a solution for any of these issues. There's a big picture here that bodes not well for free society, of which 'phoning home' is an obvious component.
James | My System Specs | | OS Win7U 64 RTM CPU Q9550 Motherboard GA-EP45-UD3R Memory 8GB Gskill Graphics Card ASUS|EAH4850/HTDI/1GD3/A Sound Card xfi Plat Monitor(s) Displays Dell 2405fpw Screen Resolution 1920x1200 Keyboard MS Natural Ergonomic 4000 Mouse Logitech MX610 USB Cordless PSU Antec Case Antec Hard Drives Seagate & WD sata Drives |
11-16-2010
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#7 | | |
Thanks, guys.
@James Near the end of the post, I ask people not to automatically believe what I've said, or those counter arguments. It's up to each and everyone of us to find the balance between paranoia and reality, smooth and fast running computer and security.
My balance was found when I decided I can not continue computing if I'm afraid of everything. it's a paradox that quite a many user is simultaneously overly paranoid and runs several AV and malware apps simultaneously, computing in sandbox or cloud, but on the other hand don't want those companies to find out anything.
I really have the mentioned A-list, based on my own credibility rankings. The companies on that list can install updates automatically, and I always join their CEIP or similar. I can forget them. On the other hand, I have set almost as complete auditing policy in my home network (Home Server, HTPC, 3 desktops, 3 laptops) as possible, logging about everything.
It's my balance. Like I mentioned in my response to Greg here above, I came to this subject when booting one desktop first time in almost three months and updatind Live. I started to smile when I noticed the first thing I did after I got it installed was to go to settings to turn CEIP on. | My System Specs | | System Manufacturer/Model Number HP ENVY 17-1150eg OS Windows 7 x64 Ultimate CPU 1.6 GHz Intel Core i7-720QM Processor Memory 6 GB Graphics Card ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5850 Graphics Sound Card Beats sound system with integrated subwoofer Monitor(s) Displays 17" laptop display, 22" LCD and 32" Full HD TV through HDMI Screen Resolution 1600*900, 1680*1050 and 1920*1080 Keyboard Logitech diNovo Media Desktop Laser (bluetooth) Mouse Logitech MX1000 Laser (Bluetooth) Hard Drives Internal: 2 x 500 GB SATA Hard Disk Drive 7200 rpm
External: 2TB for backups, 3TB USB3 network drive for media Internet Speed 50/10 Mbps VDSL Other Info Windows 7 Ultimate Retail Full in English, additional Guest-user accounts in Finnish, German and Swedish (Working languages English & Swedish, Family language German, my own language, mother tongue, Finnish. I really need Ultimate to get to use Language Packs!) |
11-16-2010
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#8 | | |

Quote: Originally Posted by Kari @James Near the end of the post, I ask people not to automatically believe what I've said, or those counter arguments. It's up to each and everyone of us to find the balance between paranoia and reality, smooth and fast running computer and security.
My balance was found... Apologies if I appeared to be criticizing your opinion. Quite the opposite. I felt comfortable adding mine because your opinion was not the domineering, my way or highway opinion so often heard these days. Your post conveyed respect for differing ideas, freeing others to respect yours. And btw, I may not have agreed with everything you said, but much of it resonates.
James | My System Specs | | OS Win7U 64 RTM CPU Q9550 Motherboard GA-EP45-UD3R Memory 8GB Gskill Graphics Card ASUS|EAH4850/HTDI/1GD3/A Sound Card xfi Plat Monitor(s) Displays Dell 2405fpw Screen Resolution 1920x1200 Keyboard MS Natural Ergonomic 4000 Mouse Logitech MX610 USB Cordless PSU Antec Case Antec Hard Drives Seagate & WD sata Drives |
11-17-2010
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#9 | | Windows 7 x64 pro/ Windows 7 x86 Pro/ XP SP3 x86 |
Most privacy concerns and allegations of personal information collection are associated with click-stream data generated through online activities like surfing, gaming and shopping. Personally I never heard of WAT, CEIP or any security software transmitting personal data by themselves (unless one thinks the name of the computer is personal).
As for Google, I do believe it harvests personal data through search and probably even email. As long as it doesnt splash the contents of my last amorous email all over the web, its OK.
But privacy is an issue thats only going to get bigger and bigger. All "credible" companies have a reputation to sustain but the competition out there is getting meaner and boundaries are being pushed. | My System Specs | | System Manufacturer/Model Number Too many to describe... OS Windows 7 x64 pro/ Windows 7 x86 Pro/ XP SP3 x86 |
11-17-2010
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#10 | | |
As Kari has rightly noted, the whole "calling home" thing is a non-issue, and is mostly responsible for making Windows 7 such a great product. One only needs to look at how Windows itself has evolved over the years to realize this. All the way from Windows 95 through to Windows 7, performance and usability has improved, which will not have been possible if Microsoft could not automatically collect usage data, which has defintely been put to good use.
Case in point. When a program crashed in Windows XP, you have a chance to click "Send" or "Dont Send" crash data to Microsoft. It was extremely rare to get any kind of positive feedback from sending said crash report - maybe 1 in 100, if you got lucky. This was improved significantly with Vista and Windows 7, and now perhaps 1 in 100 "fault reports" do not get positive responses.
Even finding drivers for hardware via Microsoft Update has become better. Even though I'm old-skool and still prefer to go directly to the manufacturer, Windows Update has on countless occasions helped me to get an obscure piece of hardware functioning again after a reload.
None of this would have been possible without Windows "phone home" or without my own participation in Customer Experience Improvment Programs. | My System Specs | | System Manufacturer/Model Number Custom Build OS Windows 7 Ultimate x64 CPU AMD Phenom 9600 Quad Core Motherboard ASUS MB-M3A32-MVP Deluxe/WiFi Memory 2 x A-Data 2GB DDR2-800 Graphics Card ASUS ATI Radeon HD 2400PRO Sound Card C-Media 7.1 Surround Monitor(s) Displays Sahara 19" Screen Resolution 1600x1200 Keyboard Mercury Mouse Logitech PSU 800W Case Thermaltake Tai-Chi Cooling Tai-Chi Water Cooler Hard Drives 1 x 80GB Seagate (IDE)
2 x 120GB Seagate (IDE/Sata)
2 x 200GB Seagate (IDE/Sata)
1 x 250GB Seagate (Sata)
1 x 320GB Seagate (Sata)
2 x 1TB Seagate (Sata)
1 x 1.5TB Seagate (Sata) Internet Speed 384kbps All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:03 PM. |  |