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Windows 7: Don't waste your money on Ultimate

10 Aug 2009   #11

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Glad to be of help. It just seems people are drawn to the word "Ultimate" and they feel if they aren't using Ultimate then they are really missing out out something.

Personally, I'm a little tired of the multiple version Windows thing. They should just do like Linux OS's and Apple OSX...make 1 version. If you want more functionality, have a software repository online that you can install from.

My System SpecsSystem Spec
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10 Aug 2009   #12

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 8.1 Pro Preview with Media Center
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dinesh View Post
I feel that ultimate is the best version that you can have out of Windows Vista or Windows 7. Anything lesser than that would be against my reputation.
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by golden039 View Post
I agree because I too have a computer ego as big as a mountain and I'll just buy Ultimate and I don't care if I need it or not. I just wanted to put some info out there.
My words, exactly. Though I need language packs on a daily basis, it is not the reason I have Ultimate. I need the capability to join a domain, use BitLocker to secure my confidential customer files, back up to a network and maybe the most important thing: I can still run my older work related software in Virtual XP.

To defend OP: he's right. If you do not need all the extras Ultimate gives, I fully understand if you choose Home Premium or even Basic. This forum has over 20,000 members and as many opinions about which version we each should have. Every opinion is as valid and right as any other.

Kari
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Aug 2009   #13

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Kari,

If you have a need to join a domain, aren't you using an operating system that was provided and is supported by your employer? Seems like they would be using volume licensing and using Professional or Enterprise.

BitLocker or TrueCrypt...in my opinion they both provide the same functionality. 1 just comes with certain Windows versions and the other is freely available for everybody.

The backup to a network part can be done without Ultimate. There is drag and drop. You can backup locally and copy to a network location. You can use tools like robocopy to make a mirror copy on a network (that is what I do).

Anyway, not criticizing the use of Vista/Windows 7 Ultimate....just providing some arguing points saying that many can do the same things without necessarily using Ultimate.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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10 Aug 2009   #14

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 8.1 Pro Preview with Media Center
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
Kari, If you have a need to join a domain, aren't you using an operating system that was provided and is supported by your employer? Seems like they would be using volume licensing and using Professional or Enterprise.
I am my own "employer". From my office I join domains of my customers.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
BitLocker or TrueCrypt...in my opinion they both provide the same functionality. 1 just comes with certain Windows versions and the other is freely available for everybody.
I've used BitLocker with Vista Ultimate, it's served me well. I see no reason to change.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
The backup to a network part can be done without Ultimate. There is drag and drop. You can backup locally and copy to a network location. You can use tools like robocopy to make a mirror copy on a network (that is what I do).
I don't have to do anything after I setup my automatical backups after first installation of Windows 7, without any third party software. +1 for Ultimate

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
Anyway, not criticizing the use of Vista/Windows 7 Ultimate....just providing some arguing points saying that many can do the same things without necessarily using Ultimate.
Exactly what I said at the end of my post.

Kari
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Aug 2009   #15

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Kari View Post
I am my own "employer". From my office I join domains of my customers.
Huh....your machine can only be a member of 1 domain at a time.....you seriously cannot be joining their domain and then leaving their domain and going back to a workgroup and then going to another domain at a later time. I think that maybe there is some confusion on what "joining" a domain entails.

As a network/systems admin for a few different companies over the years...there is absolutely no way that we would ever allow an outside computer to be brought in and joined to our domain.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Aug 2009   #16

Windows 7 64 bit SP1
 
 

FYI, TrueCrypt and BitLocker are not the same thing. If you do have a TPM chip, then BitLocker will be superior. If you don't, there are still things that BitLocker does that TrueCrypt can't.. plus there was a recent exploit against TrueCrypt that made it ridiculously easy to hack.

Slashdot IT Story | Bootkit Bypasses TrueCrypt Encryption

BitLocker, for instance, allows key escrow. So your employees laptops can be secured, but you don't have to lose everything if the employee quits or is fired. TrueCrypt can't do that.

Many people want or need domains, even in the home. A buddy of mine has his family with 7 computers hooked up in a domain to make it easy to give access to those that should have it, etc..

VNC and the like are also not anywhere near as good as Remote Desktop. RDP shows virtually no lag, while VNC becomes virtually useless in a high latency environment. Also, RDP does a lot of things VNC doesn't.. including seamless mode, multiple monitors, and with Windows 7, you can even do 3D acceleration through RDP (including Aero).

Virtual XP mode isn't just a virtual machine either. Apart from the fact that you get a free license for XP with Ultimate (so you don't need to buy one if you don't already have one), it provides a seamless mode where you can put an icon for an app on your desktop and run that app just by clicking on the icon. Can't do that with VMWare.

Ultimate also has other advantages, like Windows Subsystem for Unix applications.

Now, maybe none of this stuff matters to you, and that's fine.. Ultimate isn't for you. But don't tell people that these things are useless, and you don't need or want it... Some of us do both need and want those features.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Aug 2009   #17

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 8.1 Pro Preview with Media Center
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
Huh....your machine can only be a member of 1 domain at a time.....you seriously cannot be joining their domain and then leaving their domain and going back to a workgroup and then going to another domain at a later time. I think that maybe there is some confusion on what "joining" a domain entails.

As a network/systems admin for a few different companies over the years...there is absolutely no way that we would ever allow an outside computer to be brought in and joined to our domain.
I know what joining a domain means. I need to do this with two customers, for both of them we have own dedicated rig with Vista Ultimate with tailor made software and access to their Intranet systems. Works well and (almost) without problems. Uptime for both rigs now over one year. EDIT: Not counting necessary reboots after updates and installations!

Windows 7 Ultimate already ordered for both, decided to wait with upgrade until official release.

Kari
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Aug 2009   #18

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
BitLocker, for instance, allows key escrow. So your employees laptops can be secured, but you don't have to lose everything if the employee quits or is fired. TrueCrypt can't do that.
Which I understand, but I would expect employers to be providing the OS on these computers and under volume license agreements it would be mostly enterprise or professional versions.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
Many people want or need domains, even in the home. A buddy of mine has his family with 7 computers hooked up in a domain to make it easy to give access to those that should have it, etc..
While there are some that might want this, I don't think it's a large percentage...nor do I think most average joe's would be willing to pay for the licensing that this would involve.

First, for Windows Server 2003 Small Business Server with 5 cals, you are looking at just over $700. Microsoft Windows Small Business Server 2003 Premium Edition w SP1 version upgrade package by Office Depot

And, your buddy would need an addition 5 CAL license to cover computers 6 and 7. That's nearly $200 more dollars, PC Connection - Windows Small Business Server (SBS) 2003 Device CALs 5-pack Add-on Upgrade

Finally, 7 computers running Windows 7 Ultimate OEM is $189 per box.

So, that's $700+$200+($189 x 7) = $2,223.....that's quite a lot of money for somebody playing by the rules.



Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
VNC and the like are also not anywhere near as good as Remote Desktop. RDP shows virtually no lag, while VNC becomes virtually useless in a high latency environment.
Ok, but most people would want RDP or VNC to connect to another computer in their house and there won't be a latency issue there.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
Now, maybe none of this stuff matters to you, and that's fine.. Ultimate isn't for you. But don't tell people that these things are useless, and you don't need or want it... Some of us do both need and want those features.
It's not that the features are useless....but people just hear "ultimate" and it's like "I gotta have that". While some of these features are useful to the right person (I'm a systems admin and have been for 10+ years, with certs in MS, RedHat and Cisco)....I still believe that a majority of the functionality is not applicable to the average home power user. I've known quite a number of people who invested in Vista Ultimate and were left wondering why they paid that extra money. It's all that I am saying....make sure that you understand and know what you are getting before you shell out the dollars for something just because it's got a fancier name.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Kari View Post
I know what joining a domain means. I need to do this with two customers, for both of them we have own dedicated rig with Vista Ultimate with tailor made software and access to their Intranet systems.
Sorry, I just didn't want to assume anything. I've heard some who think they cannot access a share on a domain unless they join to the domain...and we both know that isn't necessary.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Aug 2009   #19

Windows 7 64 bit SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
Which I understand, but I would expect employers to be providing the OS on these computers and under volume license agreements it would be mostly enterprise or professional versions.
Have you considered the case of "what if *I* am the employer?"

There's lots of small businesses out there. I have clients that run window cleaning services, and they want a laptop with their customer list in their vans. It's not unheard of in competitive industries to break into competitors vehicles looking for ways to steal each others customers. And in fact, one of my clients has had it happen.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
While there are some that might want this, I don't think it's a large percentage...nor do I think most average joe's would be willing to pay for the licensing that this would involve.
There are lots of ways to get legal licenses... ActionPak, Technet, Student licensing, employee benefits (some people have contracts with Microsoft to allow their employees to buy cheap copies of their software) etc.. the licensing may be grey (or overlooked) in some areas, but don't be niave.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
So, that's $700+$200+($189 x 7) = $2,223.....that's quite a lot of money for somebody playing by the rules.
Actually, i believe my friend got his copy of Widows server via a special student pricing a while back, etc..

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
Ok, but most people would want RDP or VNC to connect to another computer in their house and there won't be a latency issue there.
Most of my clients that use it, use it to access their home systems on rather slow Cellular connections. And i know a lot of people that RDP into their home systems from work. For instance, one guy RDP's into his home system to setup his Windows Media Center to record shows he wants.

My point is that we don't always know what we'll use something for. In some cases, it makes sense to buy more than what you need because you don't know what the future will bring, especially when upgrading later will be significantly more costly.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
I still believe that a majority of the functionality is not applicable to the average home power user. I've known quite a number of people who invested in Vista Ultimate and were left wondering why they paid that extra money. It's all that I am saying....make sure that you understand and know what you are getting before you shell out the dollars for something just because it's got a fancier name.
That's fine. Of course you should only buy what you're going to use. I just have a problem with people trying to tell others that things aren't worthwhile when they know nothing of those peoples needs. Especially trying to downplay the advantages as being 100% duplicatable via free alternatives (which may or may not even work correctly, being that they are not often designed to work with the latest OS. VNC, in particular, has a long history of having severe problems with UAC for instance).

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
Sorry, I just didn't want to assume anything. I've heard some who think they cannot access a share on a domain unless they join to the domain...and we both know that isn't necessary.
No, but it's siginficantly less convenient.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Aug 2009   #20

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
There are lots of ways to get legal licenses... ActionPak, Technet, Student licensing, employee benefits (some people have contracts with Microsoft to allow their employees to buy cheap copies of their software) etc.. the licensing may be grey (or overlooked) in some areas, but don't be niave.
I'm not being naive...I realize that 99.9% of people running a domain in their home are not doing it with legal licenses. I think the Microsoft Home Use Program is limited to Microsoft Office Applications. My last employer offered this. We could get Office 2007 for $19.99 and we could legally install it on 1 computer at home and when our employment was terminated, under legal contract it said it had to be removed from the computer.

I was actually disappointed when Microsoft Home Server shipped without the ability to be a domain controller. As you said, for some home users that would be valuable. But it's right in the EULA that you are NOT allowed to use DCPromo in any fashion to use the software as a domain controller.

With regards to the other programs, there are requirements to be in compliance with the EULA. For example, having Technet doesn't really provide the ability to install a server, run 7 clients, and use it for everyday production needs. Things like Technet are for evaluation purposes...but it seems that so many like to forget those little bits.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
Actually, i believe my friend got his copy of Widows server via a special student pricing a while back, etc..
I'm not aware of any student discounts on server OS's from Microsoft. I could be wrong because their licensing is pretty complicated...but I've never seen server OS's in the list. Nor am I a qualified student anymore either.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 Don't waste your money on Ultimate





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