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Windows 7: Shut Down Nightly vs 24/7 Studies?

12 Feb 2012   #41

Windows 8 64 bit PRO
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bigmck View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by chris1neji View Post

I enjoy having my programs open and ready on the go. Todays computer are much more energy effecient than older models.

One thing I do shut off is always the monitor.
I leave my PC and monitor on 24/7. Why do you turn the monitor off. If the screen is black, what is the difference?
The file transfers, schedule maintances, and remote access does not need my monitor on. My monitor should only be on if i need it when i am sitting on it like now. Besides is just a waste to have it on forever, possible screen image burn, dead pixels, and it pretty much acts a giant nightlight at bed time hours.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

12 Feb 2012   #42

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

I don't think there is legitimate study out there to back anything up since there a few variable factors there such as time most notably.

Having said that, here is my two cents, or my "study" that is worth two cents.

I think of computer as a car. When you start a car up, it takes more gas to start it up and some more time and gas (depending on how old the car is) to warm up the engine. If you were to start it up and not turn it off, considering you have a constant supply of fuel, the engine will wear out faster. This, of course, considering you do a routine fluids check and change and the typical maintenance.

The flaws here are: it isn't necessary to keep the car on all the time for time to time usage with downtime included. It also causes an OUTRAGEOUS gas bill and if you're the type that is for conservation, it is SATANIC VILLIAN for the environment. And also, the engine will unnecessary wear out for it was only genuinely used from time to time will being on idle standby all the time.

This translates over to the computer. It is true that when you start up your hard drive to boot, it does put more wear on the drive than in use. But that is limited to a few seconds or so and then levels out during normal use of your computer. If you were to keep the hard drive on all the time, it will wear out faster because of heat build up in the disk, the actuator, the actuator arm, the spindle and such. Unless if you keep it really cool and the airflow very cool and clean, the drive will fail resulting in replacement costs, the time needed to reinstall Windows and the time needed to reinstall and reconfigure your machine and settings. That is what will happen to the hard drive.

The other components would be able to stand up to being on all the time, but then, the RAM will need a refresh due to some error or such. That is though considering, the airflow will need to be cool and clean to prevent dust build up.

That may not go so well for the power supply though. The other parts, excluding the hard drive, are able to be powered down from software setting so they don't consume so much power, which reduces heat, which reduces wear on the parts. The power supply has to regulate the power flow and do the AC to DC power conversions. That in itself will produce heat energy. It's the main source point all power in a computer. Without clean and cool air by default, there is a higher chance the power supply could fail as well because it has a HUGE stream of electron flow, and a HUGE stream of electron flow results in heat in the wiring and heat isn't a good thing anywhere.

To conclude my thoughts and ideas on this two cent study, you should at least put your machine to sleep. If you don't want to wait for Windows to boot, just put into sleep mode, or even hibernate and restart from time to time to clear out the RAM. The wear on the hard drive during a reboot is rather negligent towards the life of the drive, and other parts as well. It also will save you money and time having to replace the hard drive or other parts for that matter, as well as money on electricity.

Now for the real part of the study.

I happen to been through the use of a machine that lasted for about eight, nine years. It was born of xp and died with 7...it was a national tragedy.... It was constantly on every week and was shut down every day or few days depending if there was torrent downloading being done. Two years ago, the hard drive finally died after the motherboard was replaced due to some power fault I believe. Hard drives have a data retention span of about ten years if I remember correctly and limited power on hours, so that hard drive lasted close to what it should have been at. And keep in mind that hard drive was built in 2001 technology.

The motherboard died from some power issue, I think something shorted out. The power supply is still fine, I actually still have it.

The moral of this story is, there is reason to shut down or sleep for that matter. If you mean the computer itself, as in the processing components, will last being on for so long; those parts will remain working if they're on all the time. But if you mean the hard drive, it will not last that long compared to being shut down or off nightly. This is all.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Feb 2012   #43
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Ultimate X64 SP1
 
 

Andy, I give you at least 14˘ for your study.

You minor flaw is that cars have a lot of metal to metal contact which cause it to be eaten away. I think the only contacts like that in a PC are the motors in a spinner drive and optical drive, and fans of course. The lasers in optical drives also move along a screw-like shaft with little friction. The actuator hub has some contact but very little stress at all and the read/write heads glide on a cushion of air a few microns thick.
A car needs to be at operating temps to be the most efficient, a PC can do well when cold.

Darn good read and explanation.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.


12 Feb 2012   #44

windows 7 ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
I don't think there is legitimate study out there to back anything up since there a few variable factors there such as time most notably.

Having said that, here is my two cents, or my "study" that is worth two cents.

I think of computer as a car. When you start a car up, it takes more gas to start it up and some more time and gas (depending on how old the car is) to warm up the engine. If you were to start it up and not turn it off, considering you have a constant supply of fuel, the engine will wear out faster. This, of course, considering you do a routine fluids check and change and the typical maintenance.

The flaws here are: it isn't necessary to keep the car on all the time for time to time usage with downtime included. It also causes an OUTRAGEOUS gas bill and if you're the type that is for conservation, it is SATANIC VILLIAN for the environment. And also, the engine will unnecessary wear out for it was only genuinely used from time to time will being on idle standby all the time.

This translates over to the computer. It is true that when you start up your hard drive to boot, it does put more wear on the drive than in use. But that is limited to a few seconds or so and then levels out during normal use of your computer. If you were to keep the hard drive on all the time, it will wear out faster because of heat build up in the disk, the actuator, the actuator arm, the spindle and such. Unless if you keep it really cool and the airflow very cool and clean, the drive will fail resulting in replacement costs, the time needed to reinstall Windows and the time needed to reinstall and reconfigure your machine and settings. That is what will happen to the hard drive.

The other components would be able to stand up to being on all the time, but then, the RAM will need a refresh due to some error or such. That is though considering, the airflow will need to be cool and clean to prevent dust build up.

That may not go so well for the power supply though. The other parts, excluding the hard drive, are able to be powered down from software setting so they don't consume so much power, which reduces heat, which reduces wear on the parts. The power supply has to regulate the power flow and do the AC to DC power conversions. That in itself will produce heat energy. It's the main source point all power in a computer. Without clean and cool air by default, there is a higher chance the power supply could fail as well because it has a HUGE stream of electron flow, and a HUGE stream of electron flow results in heat in the wiring and heat isn't a good thing anywhere.

To conclude my thoughts and ideas on this two cent study, you should at least put your machine to sleep. If you don't want to wait for Windows to boot, just put into sleep mode, or even hibernate and restart from time to time to clear out the RAM. The wear on the hard drive during a reboot is rather negligent towards the life of the drive, and other parts as well. It also will save you money and time having to replace the hard drive or other parts for that matter, as well as money on electricity.

Now for the real part of the study.

I happen to been through the use of a machine that lasted for about eight, nine years. It was born of xp and died with 7...it was a national tragedy.... It was constantly on every week and was shut down every day or few days depending if there was torrent downloading being done. Two years ago, the hard drive finally died after the motherboard was replaced due to some power fault I believe. Hard drives have a data retention span of about ten years if I remember correctly and limited power on hours, so that hard drive lasted close to what it should have been at. And keep in mind that hard drive was built in 2001 technology.

The motherboard died from some power issue, I think something shorted out. The power supply is still fine, I actually still have it.

The moral of this story is, there is reason to shut down or sleep for that matter. If you mean the computer itself, as in the processing components, will last being on for so long; those parts will remain working if they're on all the time. But if you mean the hard drive, it will not last that long compared to being shut down or off nightly. This is all.
I know cars better than computers. so 2 things wrong with what you used as a point.
1. it doesn't take more gas to start a car than leaving it run.
2. your car doesn't need to be warmed up anymore. that went away with the carburetors.

electricity doesn't work like your car engine though. there is a surge of power when you turn anything that uses it on.
and electric motor for example needs a lot more amps to start spinning. you can clearly see this if you start up a saw the lights will dim.

everyone understands mechanical things wear out with use. of course leaving it sit unused it will last forever.

but a little thing about electic motors that are in the hard drive for example, it wears them out faster starting them up and shutting the off than it does to let them keep running.

so with a mechanical hard drive it makes sense to want to keep it spinning instead of shutting it down. that would be the only part of the computer that would benefit from leaving it on
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Feb 2012   #45

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
 
 

An old man and fellow student on a computer course I took once told me (in answer to this very question):

"If you buy a brand new light bulb and never use it, how long will it last?"

So I said "Forever!"

So he said "There's your answer"

I thought that was probably the most succinct and effective explanation I've ever heard!



I have also noticed that even when my PC is switched off, but still plugged in, there is a little green LCD light inside the PC that I can see through the holes, so I unplug the PC too.

And when the monitor is switched off, but still plugged in, the "whatever"(??!) box attached to the cable still gets hot, so clearly power is still being used then as well.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Feb 2012   #46

Windows 7, Home Pre4mium, 64 bit
 
 

Just a few thoughts from an old fogy. I think the idea that HDs wear out faster when cycled often is a holdover from the “old days” when the mechanical technology was not up to the wear and tear of repeated start ups and thermal cycles. I do shut down overnight or if out for the day.

Where I live is subject to violent electrical storms. The PC, monitor, modem, scanner and printer are all plugged into one power strip which I unplug from the wall, along with the phone connection when a storm is on it’s way or am going to be away for a day or more. I lost a wireless phone/answering machine due to a surge through the phone line so disconnecting the computer phone lead is a consideration.

Cheers
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Feb 2012   #47

Windows 7 Home Premium 32-Bit - Build 7600 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by theskyeye View Post
Just a few thoughts from an old fogy. I think the idea that HDs wear out faster when cycled often is a holdover from the “old days” when the mechanical technology was not up to the wear and tear of repeated start ups and thermal cycles. I do shut down overnight or if out for the day.

Where I live is subject to violent electrical storms. The PC, monitor, modem, scanner and printer are all plugged into one power strip which I unplug from the wall, along with the phone connection when a storm is on it’s way or am going to be away for a day or more. I lost a wireless phone/answering machine due to a surge through the phone line so disconnecting the computer phone lead is a consideration.

Cheers
I also lost an answering maching due to a surge. I didn't lose anything else so I am not sure if it was due to the phone or electrical socket. == When I was a kid, my father would always tell us to unplug the TV if there was a storm coming. Of course back then was when everyone had the big antenna on the roof. I always thought it was strange that he never had us unhook that from the TV
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Feb 2012   #48

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

About a year ago in Southern California they had a brown out or blackout, what ever name they were using at the time and when the power came back to normal thousands were complaining of all the things it did to their computers.
Here is a web site that gives lots and lots of information on brown outs, black outs and power surges. It's a lot of reading but very informative.
For the normal home user IMHO should use Surge Protectors and turn thing off when not in use for a period of time. Everything that hooks to my computers are hooked to a Surge Protector, phone, speakers, modems, printers and of course the computer itself. Turning things off and using Surge Protection is not a save all but it does put the odds on your equipment being saved better than not doing these things. If I'm on the computer and the power goes off I also unplug everything for another layer of protection. Then I go to the V.F.W because they have emergency lighting systems and have a few Jacks and wait for the power to come back on. To make a long story short, which I haven't done. The few seconds it take to plug things in, push a few button and boot is not worth taking a chance of harming my equipment.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Feb 2012   #49

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by serpentracer View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
I don't think there is legitimate study out there to back anything up since there a few variable factors there such as time most notably.

Having said that, here is my two cents, or my "study" that is worth two cents.

I think of computer as a car. When you start a car up, it takes more gas to start it up and some more time and gas (depending on how old the car is) to warm up the engine. If you were to start it up and not turn it off, considering you have a constant supply of fuel, the engine will wear out faster. This, of course, considering you do a routine fluids check and change and the typical maintenance.

The flaws here are: it isn't necessary to keep the car on all the time for time to time usage with downtime included. It also causes an OUTRAGEOUS gas bill and if you're the type that is for conservation, it is SATANIC VILLIAN for the environment. And also, the engine will unnecessary wear out for it was only genuinely used from time to time will being on idle standby all the time.

This translates over to the computer. It is true that when you start up your hard drive to boot, it does put more wear on the drive than in use. But that is limited to a few seconds or so and then levels out during normal use of your computer. If you were to keep the hard drive on all the time, it will wear out faster because of heat build up in the disk, the actuator, the actuator arm, the spindle and such. Unless if you keep it really cool and the airflow very cool and clean, the drive will fail resulting in replacement costs, the time needed to reinstall Windows and the time needed to reinstall and reconfigure your machine and settings. That is what will happen to the hard drive.

The other components would be able to stand up to being on all the time, but then, the RAM will need a refresh due to some error or such. That is though considering, the airflow will need to be cool and clean to prevent dust build up.

That may not go so well for the power supply though. The other parts, excluding the hard drive, are able to be powered down from software setting so they don't consume so much power, which reduces heat, which reduces wear on the parts. The power supply has to regulate the power flow and do the AC to DC power conversions. That in itself will produce heat energy. It's the main source point all power in a computer. Without clean and cool air by default, there is a higher chance the power supply could fail as well because it has a HUGE stream of electron flow, and a HUGE stream of electron flow results in heat in the wiring and heat isn't a good thing anywhere.

To conclude my thoughts and ideas on this two cent study, you should at least put your machine to sleep. If you don't want to wait for Windows to boot, just put into sleep mode, or even hibernate and restart from time to time to clear out the RAM. The wear on the hard drive during a reboot is rather negligent towards the life of the drive, and other parts as well. It also will save you money and time having to replace the hard drive or other parts for that matter, as well as money on electricity.

Now for the real part of the study.

I happen to been through the use of a machine that lasted for about eight, nine years. It was born of xp and died with 7...it was a national tragedy.... It was constantly on every week and was shut down every day or few days depending if there was torrent downloading being done. Two years ago, the hard drive finally died after the motherboard was replaced due to some power fault I believe. Hard drives have a data retention span of about ten years if I remember correctly and limited power on hours, so that hard drive lasted close to what it should have been at. And keep in mind that hard drive was built in 2001 technology.

The motherboard died from some power issue, I think something shorted out. The power supply is still fine, I actually still have it.

The moral of this story is, there is reason to shut down or sleep for that matter. If you mean the computer itself, as in the processing components, will last being on for so long; those parts will remain working if they're on all the time. But if you mean the hard drive, it will not last that long compared to being shut down or off nightly. This is all.
I know cars better than computers. so 2 things wrong with what you used as a point.
1. it doesn't take more gas to start a car than leaving it run.
2. your car doesn't need to be warmed up anymore. that went away with the carburetors.

electricity doesn't work like your car engine though. there is a surge of power when you turn anything that uses it on.
and electric motor for example needs a lot more amps to start spinning. you can clearly see this if you start up a saw the lights will dim.

everyone understands mechanical things wear out with use. of course leaving it sit unused it will last forever.

but a little thing about electic motors that are in the hard drive for example, it wears them out faster starting them up and shutting the off than it does to let them keep running.

so with a mechanical hard drive it makes sense to want to keep it spinning instead of shutting it down. that would be the only part of the computer that would benefit from leaving it on
That's why it's a two cent study!

But isn't there a brief, initial moment where there is more fuel consumed to start the engine up? I'm not fully sure with newer engines, I'm still driving my 1990 Mazda 626...

And also, isn't it a good idea though to allow the engine to run for about 10 seconds at least to get the engine at proper idle and allow the oil to pump through the engine?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Feb 2012   #50
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Ultimate X64 SP1
 
 

An internal combustion engine needs more fuel to air when it's cold , even with no carburetors, the injection is computer controlled to squirt more more when cold and then less at operating temps. Fuel burns more efficiently in a hot chamber.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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