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Windows 7: Quasi-Administrator account versus a true Adminstrator Account?

24 Feb 2012   #11
glennc

Windows 7 Ultimate
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
When a user installs WIn7 or sets up a preinstalled computer, the account set up is an Administrator-level account since it's assumed this is the owner. It will allow changes after warning you by dimming the desktop and prompting about impending changes being made.

Inexperienced users are sometimes advised to set up in Control Panel a Standard User Account for regular use, as we helped you do last year Glenn. This will prompt for Admin password whenever changes are being made to the machine.

If you don't understand what changes are being made and their implications, I wouldn't proceed without asking here first.

The hidden Built-in Administrator account should only be used by the most experienced users - you know who you are. It also cannot serve a Standard User without another Administrative level account being present since when hidden the Built-in Admin account will fail to provide a box for prompted password resulting in an elevation stalemate which may require System Restore from boot.
Thanks Greg,
You are the one who coined quasi-adminstrator. So far I have not had any problems that I can recall except a few incidents that might be related, thus my question. I'll ask the specific question in another thread! Thanks kind dude! Also your last sentence was unclear and scary enough to be pretty comfortable as it is!
Glenn


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
24 Feb 2012   #12
gregrocker

 

One is supposed to be able to establish a Standard account only as long as an Administrator account also exists (to approve requests).

However if you delete the existing quasi-Administrator account you set up under (as distinguished from the Built-in Hidden Administrator) it will give prompt for password which has no password box to type into.

To undo this one needs to unhide Built-in Administrator but you cannot approve an elevated Command Prompt to do so, so you're stuck with trying to run it's Enable command from WinRe command line which doesn't help, or System Restore which does work. Phew!

This all happened to me yesterday when I was testing it while flying cross country.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 Feb 2012   #13
glennc

Windows 7 Ultimate
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
One is supposed to be able to establish a Standard account as long as an Administrator account also exists (to approve requests).

However if you delete the existing quasi-Administrator account you set up under (as distinguished from the Built-in Hidden Administrator) it will give prompt for password which has no password box to type into.

To undo this one needs to unhide Built-in Administrator but you cannot approve an elevated Command Prompt to do so, so you're stuck with trying to run it's Enable command from WinRe command line which doesn't help, or System Restore which does work. Phew!

This all happened to me yesterday when I was testing it while flying cross country.
Sounds like you had a heck of a time! Least you can do something about it, most of what you wrote in not decoded, so I will take it as heavy duty and difficult!
L8tr
Glenn
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

25 Feb 2012   #14
codekiddy

Windows 7 Enterprise x64 SP1 Version 6.1 Build 7601
 
 

http://**************/image/e95otdpyn[IMG]http://**************/image/e95otdpyn/[/IMG][IMG]http://**************/image/e95otdpyn/[/IMG][IMG]http://**************/image/e95otdpyn[/IMG]
to show what I thought,
here in this screenShot only Administrator can rename Admin. account
My System SpecsSystem Spec
25 Feb 2012   #15
glennc

Windows 7 Ultimate
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by codekiddy View Post
http://**************/image/e95otdpyn[IMG]http://**************/image/e95otdpyn/[/IMG][IMG]http://**************/image/e95otdpyn/[/IMG][IMG]http://**************/image/e95otdpyn[/IMG]
to show what I thought,
here in this screenShot only Administrator can rename Admin. account
Yes, those items are that same as in you example!
Glenn
My System SpecsSystem Spec
25 Feb 2012   #16
bbearren

7 Ultimate x64/7 Home Premium x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by codekiddy View Post
http://**************/image/e95otdpyn[IMG]http://**************/image/e95otdpyn/[/IMG][IMG]http://**************/image/e95otdpyn/[/IMG][IMG]http://**************/image/e95otdpyn[/IMG]
to show what I thought,
here in this screenShot only Administrator can rename Admin. account
However, that's not necessarily true.

As the attached thumbnails illustrate, from a created account in the Administrators Group I created another account in the Administrators Group, and gave it a name. I then renamed that account in the Administrators Group from my original created account in the Adminstrators Group, not the default Windows Administrator.

But then, I don't run a standard installation of Windows 7.


Attached Thumbnails
Quasi-Administrator account versus a true Adminstrator Account?-admin-user-accounts.png   Quasi-Administrator account versus a true Adminstrator Account?-create-duck.png  
Attached Images
Quasi-Administrator account versus a true Adminstrator Account?-new-duck.png Quasi-Administrator account versus a true Adminstrator Account?-renaming-duck.png Quasi-Administrator account versus a true Adminstrator Account?-renamed-duck.png 
My System SpecsSystem Spec
26 Feb 2012   #17
glennc

Windows 7 Ultimate
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bbearren View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by codekiddy View Post
http://**************/image/e95otdpyn[IMG]http://**************/image/e95otdpyn/[/IMG][IMG]http://**************/image/e95otdpyn/[/IMG][IMG]http://**************/image/e95otdpyn[/IMG]
to show what I thought,
here in this screenShot only Administrator can rename Admin. account
However, that's not necessarily true.

As the attached thumbnails illustrate, from a created account in the Administrators Group I created another account in the Administrators Group, and gave it a name. I then renamed that account in the Administrators Group from my original created account in the Adminstrators Group, not the default Windows Administrator.

But then, I don't run a standard installation of Windows 7.
Hello bbearren,
Many thanks for the time and explanations, with examples! Much appreciated. But I still can not get my head around it! There are so many questions and not enough room for the answers {:-))!
Glenn
My System SpecsSystem Spec
26 Feb 2012   #18
bbearren

7 Ultimate x64/7 Home Premium x64
 
 

The default Windows Administrator is a part of the OS; there can be only one (the original) Windows Administrator. The Administrators Group is also part of the OS. The OOBE when setting up a new desktop or laptop creates the first member account in the Administrators Group. One can use this first created member of the Administrators Group to create more members of the Administrators Group, but just the one (created during the OOBE) is sufficient for all practical purposes when first setting up a new system.

In my rambling/poking/dissecting/deviling-in-the-details of Windows 7, I have found only a handful of registry entries that cannot be tampered with unless one is logged on as the default Windows Administrator. Most users will never go there.

For all other practical purposes, the privileges of a created account in the Administrators Group are sufficient for anything. When UAC is triggered and the box pops up asking if you want to allow such-and-such program to make changes to the computer, when you enter the password for the created account in the Administrators Group and click OK (or if you are logged on using that account, just click OK), you have successfully elevated the privileges of such-and-such program sufficiently to make changes to the computer that will have effects system wide (that is to say, all users), for that instance. Once those changes are made, if you should go back again to such-and-such program to make some more adjustments (system-wide changes), UAC will popup again, asking for permission, again.

In order to avoid unintended consequences and unforeseen intractable conundrums, Windows requires two members in the Administrators Group. The first (the default inactive Windows Administrator) is always there; the second is a created account that is a member of the Administrators Group. Leave the default Windows Administrator account inactive, and the created Administrators Group account will suffice for all your needs.

If you find that you wish to run routinely as a Standard User (this is what I always advise, and so does Microsoft) but you don't want to lose all the files and settings that you got used to when running under the OOBE-created Administrators Group account, you can create another account that is a member of the Administrators Group (I always name mine Admin), create a password for that account (make it something you can easily remember and/or write it down), then logoff. Next, logon as the newly created member of the Administrators Group, go to Start > Control Panel > User Accounts and click on "Manage another account". Select your original OOBE account name and then select "Change the account type". Click the radio button for Standard user, and OK your way back out.

This will save all your files and settings from your first account, but that account will now only have the privileges of a Standard User. And you will have an Administrators Group account and password to use whenever UAC pops up asking for permission for some program to make changes to the computer.

Some programs require Administrator privileges and will refuse to run for a Standard User. There are two ways to deal with them. You can right-click the shortcut for such a program whenever you want to run it and select "Run as administrator", then type in the correct password when UAC pops up. The other method saves a step; again, right-click on the shortcut for such a program and select "Properties". Click on the "Advanced" button on the Shortcut properties sheet and put a check in the box by "Run as adminstrator". UAC will still popup, but this saves you the step of always right-clicking the shortcut every time you want to run that program; once and done. Routine system maintenance tasks (defragging, disk cleanup, etc.) can be run in this manner, all from a Standard User account.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
26 Feb 2012   #19
codekiddy

Windows 7 Enterprise x64 SP1 Version 6.1 Build 7601
 
 

bbearren,
Thanks for testing this, I didn't notice that

glennc,
I found a thread with same question on google, have a look:
windows - What differences are there between built-in Administrator and other Administrators? - IT Security - Stack Exchange
My System SpecsSystem Spec
26 Feb 2012   #20
glennc

Windows 7 Ultimate
 
 

Thank you again bbearren,
You have a way of explanation that allowed me to follow most of what you wrote. At this moment, I don't have sufficient horsepower to really get it.... I have the account that I use as the administrator, my standard user account and another persons user account. Seems to work okay.
Where I get lost is the changing the properties to run as administrator. This would allow the other user account to have too much privilege in my limited understanding. So basically I am good enough for now.
What I find confusing is when I install a program in the admin account as opposed to my user account. It seems in the first case, if I run the program in the user account it pops up asking for my admin password. If I do it in the user account it doesn't, when run.
In another thread I was having a problem installing a .msi program even as admin as the newer version said I didn't uninstall it. I couldn't find it in Revo Pro (did not run as administratore) and couldn't find it. Did a forced uninstall to the program name. CCleaned and it wouldn't get everything.
Luckily a member of the Software group Raw Therapee sent me a complete install in a directory that I could just cut and paste into the Program Files (x86). Couldn't get it to unpack with msciexec. In any case, I pinned the executable to my taskbar. So my only access is via that shortcut. I would like to get it in the All Programs menu in the Start Up tab. Again, haven't a clue.
To many pots on the stove. Thanks for your help!!
Glenn
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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