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Windows 7: hard shutdown caused problems. need help figuring it out


29 Jun 2012   #1

Windows 7 Home x64 & Windows XP Pro x86
 
 
hard shutdown caused problems. need help figuring it out

I have a resonable computer setup. which has been reliable since it was built.

I recently opened the case up and placed 2 additional HDD's into the
computer via Sata 2 connection. The HDD's were a Samsung f1 1TB Sata and a
Western Digital Green Caviar 3TB Sata 3. So i could transfer data from one to
the other.

After the transfer i removed the additional HDD's and left the sata cables in
the computer as i had to remove the Graphics Card to reach the motherboard
Sata Sockets.

I screwed the Case back up and switched the computer on. I heard the Initial
Beep as the computer started up and a faily obvious repetative tap/click. I
Thought that it could be a cable caught in a fan and because i couldnt get to
the cables fast enough i resorted to yanking the power cable out as the pc
was going through the black background and white writing stage just before
the windows 7 startup logo appears.

I then re-opened the PC case to clear the wires from the fans. I didnt notice
any specific obstructions (and neither did i notice the DVD Drive sata cable
was unplugged).

When i started the machine up. it almost instantly displayed a message that
stated 'Overclocking failure!!'. I then entered the BIOS and noticed nothing
specifically modified and because i now absolutely NOTHING about over
clocking i decided that restoring the defaults was the best option.

The only original differences in the bios from default was seting the DRAM to
1333 from 1600 for compatibility. and setting asus cool'n'quiet and smart fan
settings.

That night,

I setup a UTorrent list which was rather big. The torrent client crashed and
i reloaded it and waited for the torrents to reverify. Then i started up a
game called Elderscrolls 5 - Skyrim. It Ran ok but utorrent does sometimes
slow down the game. When i finished playing the game i shut it down and
viewed the torrent progress. i saw a message stating the HDD was overloaded.

I left the torrents moving along and then ran firefox. I opened a few tabs
and then the computer shutdown instantly. I had to switch off the PSU and
then unugged it for 3 or 4 seconds. I placed the power back in and turned
the PSU back on. The PC started up displaying a message to choce safe mode
or not. I loaded up as normal.

I left the machine downloading for the night, it did not shutdown. How-ever.
The following night the same thing happened again and i left the machine
downloading over night with a shutdown. I had assumed that it was utorrent
causing a critical failure.

However, its started happening during excessive web browser usage only and
then it started hapening on a fresh startup and opening the Windows 7 forum book
mark. there have been times when i havent had a crash at all with over 10
tabs open.



MY QUESTIONS:-

1a - Would the BIOS be corrupted by Switching the pc off during start-up?

1b - Would the BIOS Defaults be corrupted aswel?

1c - Could a corupted BIOS cause a critical system shutdown?

1d - Could a corrupted BIOS setting/bios overclocking setting cause that
specific component to fail by shuting down the pc?



2a - Could the extra power draw from 2 additional HDD's cause the PSU to be
permenantly damaged therefor causing critical system shutdown?

2b - Could the system have assigned tasks the the additional HDDs that no
longer exist?

2c - As the PC shutsdown primarily whilst Browsing the net using Firefox and
downloading mass files in uTorrent. What Hardware components are
specifically Taxed running those programs?

2d - Could it just be a coincidence that its happening whilst browsing and
downloading?



3a - The components that were modified/moved during the hdd swapping was the
Sata cables and Graphics Card. Could a damaged Graphics card cause a
system shutdown whilst browsing the net but not whilst playing a pc game
that is limited to 4GB of ram and no more (Skyrim)?


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

30 Jun 2012   #2

Windows 7 Home x64 & Windows XP Pro x86
 
 

bump
My System SpecsSystem Spec
30 Jun 2012   #3

Windows 7 x64 Professional SP1
 
 

Hello there Jonesie85, that's quite a problem you've got there, and it's very well articulated too!

I'm not an expert but i'll try to answer the questions that i can, as best as i can based on what i know from my limited knowledge...

1a-d My knowledge on the inner workings of the BIOS is limited so i'm afraid i cannot give an honest answer to those questions

2a - 2 additional HDDs by themselves would not AFAIK sip enough power to cause permanent damage to your PSU (based on your system specs, I reckon you have a beefy enough PSU to handle a full rack of HDDs in RAID10 or crossfirex with 2 or 3 graphics cards!)

2b - The only way to find out as an elimination exercise would be to reinstall those drives on your system and repeat the steps (surf the net on firefox and use your torrent software) that caused the issue.. If the issue still persists than you can rule that probability...

2c - Firefox should only stress your CPU and RAM (HDD too if you use disk cache) if you open up tonnes of tabs and flash/javascript heavy sites, utorrent would be very very HDD intensive (i'm not sure whether you're drives are in a RAID or seperate), and CPU intensive but only when verifying and hashing the files of your torrent that you downloaded

2d - Probably so, but have you used other intensive software to rule that out? You mentioned that your system performs admirably when running Skyrim (itself quite the demanding game at high settings), but you didn't mention how long for. To rule out the concidence and to narrow down what the problem is, have you considered stress testing your system with Furmark (www.ozone3d.net/benchmarks/fur/) and Linx (www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?201670-LinX-A-simple-Linpack-interface) seperately and together?

3a - To put it simply, a damaged graphics card would flatline more sooner on game than on an internet browser like firefox. Managing to run the game over an extended period of time successfully, but failing to do so on a lighter program like firefox would indicate a software problem or the problem is focussed somewhere else (not a GPU issue)

I hope that helps out somewhat.... Sorry if i couldn't be more concise!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.


30 Jun 2012   #4

Windows 7 Home x64 & Windows XP Pro x86
 
 

the computer resets after about 3-5 hours of skyrim gameplay but was browsing for about 1 hour and computer was running for about 9 hours. I had my first crash on skyrim since the problem started. it it normally happens during web browsing and downloading but has happened after i browsed 10 tabs started many many torent downloads and then during downloading i started up skyrim.

thank you for your help by the way.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
30 Jun 2012   #5

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bits 7601 Multiprocessor Free Service Pack 1
 
 

So it crashes.... What is the BSOD message and number?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
30 Jun 2012   #6

Windows 7 x64 Professional SP1
 
 

Thanks for the reply,

It sounds like based on the follow-up information you've given, one or both of your currently installed hard drive(s) on your system may have been damaged (corrupted sectors) when you yanked out the power cable, but we still cannot definitively rule out CPU/GPU instability yet..

Can you try downloading and running the two stress tests (LinX and Furmark) i mentioned and linked in my previous post to definitively rule those those two components out of the equation?

EDIT:- LinX will only take 10 - 15 minutes to either prove stability or crash your computer due to instability, same goes with Furmark

EDIT2:- My bad i forgot you're using an AMD processor, LinX only works with Intel's instructions... you can try multiple instances of Prime95 instead to simulate the same load but LinX gets the job done much more quickly
My System SpecsSystem Spec
30 Jun 2012   #7

Windows 7 Home x64 & Windows XP Pro x86
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Kaktussoft View Post
So it crashes.... What is the BSOD message and number?
it simply shutsoff all power. no BSOD or error message. The PSU wont allow me to turn the system back on until after i turn of the psu switch and then unplug the power cord.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
30 Jun 2012   #8

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bits 7601 Multiprocessor Free Service Pack 1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Jonesie85 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Kaktussoft View Post
So it crashes.... What is the BSOD message and number?
it simply shutsoff all power. no BSOD or error message. The PSU wont allow me to turn the system back on until after i turn of the psu switch and then unplug the power cord.
unplug power cord??? Are you sure that's really necessary?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
30 Jun 2012   #9

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bits 7601 Multiprocessor Free Service Pack 1
 
 

You can't boot whatsoever when it goes power off all of a sudden? Also not if you wait 15 minutes to cool down?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
30 Jun 2012   #10

Windows 7 Enterprise 32 bit; Windows 7 Professional 64Bit
 
 

Several ideas:
1. You did a hard disconnect from the wall. If this was during shutdown the load on the PSU would not be as high as it is when doing multiple tasks where the HDD and other components are under load. However, PSUs are senstive to this sort of "shock" and will fail. Thus-have you tried a replacement PSU to be absolutely certain that you have a completely functional one? BTW: PSU ratings are/can be misleading. I always build with a safety factor of 1.5 to 1 as a minimum.
2. The BIOS issue can be due to it becoming corrupted. Did you remove the battery and or use the reset jumper? If not-do this FIRST with all power removed from the machine. Reset you RAM compatibility and any other special settings that must be there for proper operation. This will help us help you.
3. Firefox is not the culprit unto itself. It may have become corrupted as might have U-torrent software. A reinstall would not hurt.
4. Hard Drive health can be stress tested using either of the programs mentioned or that of the drive maker. Not a bad idea in this case.
5. This is not a Windows 7 issue since the machine is shutting itself down. Programs don't do this unless written with that feature. I am assuming that there are NO timers that would cause the system to do it either.
I suspect that you may also have an issue on the motherboard itself. Intermittent shutdowns can be due to overtemp, failed components and connections that are no seated properly.

Please reread your last reply as to why I have made the statements above. Remember-servicing a machine can be done by a process of elimination.
Hope this points you in the right direction.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
Reply

 hard shutdown caused problems. need help figuring it out




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