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Windows 7: Why would you need UEFI if 64 bit system is suppose to protect

28 Oct 2014   #1
groze

W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit
 
 
Why would you need UEFI if 64 bit system is suppose to protect

Why would you need UEFI if 64 bit system is suppose to protect you from the rootkits? I have been doing some reading about UEFI it is confusing, a few sites say ignore what you read on other sites.

Wouldn't 3rd party backup software fail with UEFI enabled?

I read Ubuntu and other Linux system are starting to support UEFI & GPT just not secure boot-yet. I am not a linux fan but I do like LUbuntu with Xfce4 desktop installed. I just don't like entering password constantly.


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28 Oct 2014   #2
LMiller7

Windows 7 Pro 64 bit
 
 

When 64 bit systems were first introduced they were relatively safe from Rootkits. But as they gained market share rootkit authors began to target them. There are now 64 bit rootkits and more are expected in the future.

UEFI systems offer a number of advantages over BIOS systems which they will eventually replace. It isn't just about security.
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29 Oct 2014   #3
3D Jed

Windows 7 pro x64 SP1
 
 

Call me cynical*, but I thought the whole idea of UEFI was to prevent the well-known piracy MBR hack that has cost Microsoft billions. The hack is located in the MBR, and mimics OEM SLP activation. Since it loads before Windows it cannot be detected or prevented (although can be easily seen in a MGADiag report). The only fix is a hardware one - UEFI secure boot.

*cynical - adjective - 'believing that people are motivated purely by self-interest; distrustful of human sincerity or integrity'
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29 Oct 2014   #4
groze

W7 32 bit, Linux Mint Xfce 18 64 bit
 
 

3d Jed, UEFI is not only used by Microsoft, it is used by other operating systems including Apple, Linux, BSD, etc. Secure boot is separate feature.

If I understanding what I have read & What Lmiller 7 said
UEFI with Secure boot enabled is the safest but usually can't install other operating systems. UEFI without Secure Boot is 2nd and you can usually install other operating systems that support UEFI

There are a couple of 32 bit systems that support UEFI don't know if it is with or without Secure boot.

I don't think windows 7 64 bit supports secure boot but supports UEFI, I am quite not sure on that.
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29 Oct 2014   #5
LMiller7

Windows 7 Pro 64 bit
 
 

UEFI wasn't implemented for any one reason.

The BIOS system used in many modern computers is descended from that used in the original IBM PC released in 1981. And that was closely based on that used by the 8 bit CPM operating system of the 1970's. It's primary purpose was to provide a hardware independent interface for the operating system and to initiate the boot process. A secondary function was to manage the initial hardware configuration of the system.

The BIOS system worked quite well for the hardware and operating systems it was designed for. It served us well for many years. But a great deal has changed since then. Modern operating systems use the BIOS functions only in the very early stages of the boot process. The functions provided by the BIOS are hopelessly inadequate for the requirements of any modern OS. Once loaded the OS doesn't use the BIOS at all. The ability of the BIOS to perform it's other roles are limited by the basic concepts of it's design.

UEFI was designed to replace the old BIOS system and to avoid it's many technical limitations. Security was just one of many reasons.

Note that I am by no means an expert with UEFI and in fact know very little about it.
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29 Oct 2014   #6
3D Jed

Windows 7 pro x64 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by groze View Post
3d Jed, UEFI is not only used by Microsoft, it is used by other operating systems including Apple, Linux, BSD, etc. Secure boot is separate feature.
I could post links to the MBR piracy hack, and you could try it out in a VM, and see what I'm talking about, but forum rules forbid (for obvious reasons). I've tested the MBR hack in a W7 VM and it works. MS have lost billions due to this. IMHO all this UEFI malarkey is about MS and piracy.
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29 Oct 2014   #7
logicearth

Windows 10 Pro (x64)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by 3D Jed View Post
IMHO all this UEFI malarkey is about MS and piracy.
No it is not. UEFI started long before Microsoft and the SLIC Bios hacks. UEFI brought several technical advantages with it, for example, hard drives larger then 2TB were supported for booting with thanks to GPT just one example.

Either way Microsoft is not the one pushing UEFI, hardware manufacturers are. Almost all new motherboards and OEM system builders are UEFI now. This was happening well before Microsoft had any incentive.

Not that it matters, if this was about piracy as proclaimed, Microsoft would stop one from installing on older BIOS based systems. But nope, go ahead install away. Heck, can turn off UEFI and emulate an old BIOS system all most UEFI systems.
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29 Oct 2014   #8
3D Jed

Windows 7 pro x64 SP1
 
 

dude - you don't understand

MBR hack works and has cost MS billions

when all BIOS is UEFI the above hack won't work
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29 Oct 2014   #9
logicearth

Windows 10 Pro (x64)
 
 

I understand perfectly fine. But there is nothing stopping those hacks from working on UEFI based systems. After all, UEFI supports booting MBR as well as other things. What changed is Microsoft altered the way SLIC work in Windows 8 by removing universal OEM keys.

The problem with understanding is you, however. You are so focused on your own single point of view.
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30 Oct 2014   #10
3D Jed

Windows 7 pro x64 SP1
 
 

The loader I'm referring to resides in MBR and can't be used with GPT. You say 'UEFI supports booting MBR as well as other things' - maybe I don't understand UEFI, but isn't 'UEFI with MBR' just MBR with a groovy interface that has mouse support + graphics. IMHO eventually MBR support will end (and so will MBR piracy).

Quote from the FAQ for the loader that the pirates use -

'The loader doesn't work when the systems using GPT. The workaround is to pre-format your hard drive so that it uses MBR instead.'

anyone who's come up against probs downgrading Windows 8 to 7 will know all about locked down BIOS and locked HDDs. That's the MS/UEFI way to solve their piracy problem.

Report: China's software piracy rate falls to new low -- of 77% | ZDNet

this discussion is getting a bit close to the forum rules re: piracy, so I'm outta here . . .
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 Why would you need UEFI if 64 bit system is suppose to protect




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