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Windows 7: Getting New Win 7 Pro PC To Work With Old Home Premium Drive

16 Jan 2015   #11
Adelphi1

Win7 64bit Home Premium
 
 

DSperber, GregRocker: I cannot get Internet from work as Home Preium does not support subnet masks or gateways. It looks like that rules out Winows Anytime Upgrade.

So if I upgrade at work via the Optiplex, it should boot off the T5610 in Legacy Mode. Does That sound logical


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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16 Jan 2015   #12
gregrocker

 

Not if you want to run it on your home PC that still may need to have it's BIOS settings adjusted. The Upgrade should be done there to work correctly.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Jan 2015   #13
dsperber

Windows 7 Pro x64 (1), Win7 Pro X64 (2)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Adelphi1 View Post
DSperber, GregRocker: I cannot get Internet from work as Home Preium does not support subnet masks or gateways. It looks like that rules out Winows Anytime Upgrade.

So if I upgrade at work via the Optiplex
You just lost me.

First you said you can't get Internet from work through Home Premium. But you'd been using the original Dell Studio 435/9000 (which has crashed and is dead, I believe) at work. Are you saying you didn't have Internet capability on your Studio at work??? Seems not possible.

Then, if you try the temporary transplant of the hard drive from the Studio into the Optiplex (where it CAN boot in this working computer) you say "if I upgrade at work via the Optiplex". Well, it's the same Home Premium now running in the Optiplex, so why should you now have Internet capability from the Optiplex using the identical Windows system you were previously using in the now-dead Studio and which you just said "does not support subnet masks or gateways" and therefore could not get Internet.

Is the Optiplex in a whole different network setup, not involving subnet masks or gateways?

I'm confused. Please straighten me out with some explanation and clarification of the full story. I thought all three of these machines were at WORK, not home. So shouldn't all three of them have (or used to have when they were alive) working Internet access through your work network setup?


Quote:
it should boot off the T5610 in Legacy Mode. Does That sound logical
That was my suggestion, purely on the basis of hypothesis. If the problem is Home Premium not being able to run on the dual-processor T5610 (and you haven't confirmed that your T5610 DOES have two processors), then upgrading your Home Premium Windows system to Pro should accomplish what is needed... and without requiring reinstall of your application software, which you said you no longer have the original installer files and license keys for.

But you still haven't detailed exactly what "does not boot" means when you have the Home Premium hard drive installed in the T5610 and try to boot:

(1) Is it an actual boot-time BIOS hardware complaint? If so what is the BIOS message?

(2) Does Windows actually get started, but then quit for some reason? If so, what is the message you see?

(3) Is there some other symptom of the failure? Blue screen? Anything?? Please describe.

Anyway, my thought was that if it is truly Home Premium which can't run on what I am speculating (since you haven't confirmed that either) is a dual-processor T5610 and that it actually will not start at all because of the presence of that second processor (as opposed to the other possibility regarding the MS rules, namely that it would actually run but would simply would ignore the second processor), that if we can accomplish an upgrade from Home Premium to Pro in SOME machine that can at least boot from that Home Premium hard drive (now removed from your dead Dell Studio and being installed in assorted other PC's, trying to boot) that we can then TRY using the now-upgraded Pro hard drive back in the T5610. We know Pro will support the dual-processor T5610, so the [theoretical] goal was to upgrade Windows on your Home Premium hard drive to Pro. That is the goal.


Will it work? Can it work? Don't know. You still haven't clarified exactly what "does not boot" means, and until we know what the actual problem/symptom is this discussion and proposed solution is kind of completely hypothetical!! It is critical that you provide a clear explanation of what "does not boot" means when you try to boot from the Home Premium hard drive when it is installed in the T5610.

Even if you could get to try the Anytime Upgrade with the Home Premium hard drive installed in the Optiplex, would the upgrade be allowed and legal? It's an OEM licensed copy of Windows, not a retail copy, running on a different machine than it was originally licensed for (OEM licenses are not transferrable to other PC's). Would the upgrade process detect that current mismatch of installed OEM Windows Home Premium on a different CPU/motherboard than it originally was installed/licensed on? Probably.

Don't know what to say, other than that you certainly should have a usable and complete backup of your Home Premium hard drive data/files, just in case something you try to do goes wrong.

I also wonder why you don't still have the original application software installer files and license keys for what's currently on your Home Premium system from the Dell Studio. Aren't these programs for work, provided by work? This is a work machine you said, not a home machine, so isn't it possible to get fresh installer files and license keys from your network/enterprise people so that you can just install this software again onto your new T5610 which DOES boot from the hard drive that came with the machine and which was presumably provided by Dell and/or your network staff?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

16 Jan 2015   #14
AddRAM

Windows 7 Pro x64 Windows 10 Pro x64
 
 

Seems like there is a thing going around lately where people take hard drives (old) from other machines, (with a operating system already on it) and put it on a newer machine (or just different) and try to get the OS to run. Whatever happened to buying a (new) hard drive and installing windows on it, using a new copy and key or the key on the COA ? Hard drives and even ssd`s are so cheap and so is an oem copy of windows.

samsung evo - Best Buy

Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit - Operating Systems - Newegg.com

What OS originally came on this dual Xeon machine ?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jan 2015   #15
Adelphi1

Win7 64bit Home Premium
 
 

DSperber:

"You just lost me.

First you said you can't get Internet from work through Home Premium. But you'd been using the original Dell Studio 435/9000 (which has crashed and is dead, I believe) at work. Are you saying you didn't have Internet capability on your Studio at work??? Seems not possible."

My bad for my phrasing and/or omissions. The Dell 435/9000 is dead and the CPU/box has been recycled. What remains is its old hard drives and other components. Motherboard is gone. Any work I have been doing with it is using its old Home Premium hard drive, not the box itself. The box I am using to test this is an Optiplex 990 work PC, but one that can ONLY be used at work. My life would be MUCH easier if I could have the two side-by-side somewhere. Not the case.

Then, if you try the temporary transplant of the hard drive from the Studio into the Optiplex (where it CAN boot in this working computer) you say "if I upgrade at work via the Optiplex". Well, it's the same Home Premium now running in the Optiplex, so why should you now have Internet capability from the Optiplex using the identical Windows system you were previously using in the now-dead Studio and which you just said "does not support subnet masks or gateways" and therefore could not get Internet.

Is the Optiplex in a whole different network setup, not involving subnet masks or gateways?

OptiPlex is at work, needing subnets and gateways to connect to Anytime Upgrade so I can get Win Pro on the drive to use on a 2-processor CPU, the T5610. Home Premium (as I verified) does not allow those. So I could not upgrade from work. Thus I believe I need a retail DVD of Professional to upgrade without Internet. Right???

I'm confused. Please straighten me out with some explanation and clarification of the full story. I thought all three of these machines were at WORK, not home. So shouldn't all three of them have (or used to have when they were alive) working Internet access through your work network setup?

Apologies for the confusion. I appreciate all your massive amount of help. To summarize, the OptiPlex 990 is at work, the T5610 is at home. The old Home Premium hard drive can go to both PCs. I have no Internet on the drive at work because Home Premium does not allow masks and gateways. And I presume it will not boot at home, even in legacy mood, because the T5610 has two CPUs.


Quote:
it should boot off the T5610 in Legacy Mode. Does That sound logical


That was my suggestion, purely on the basis of hypothesis. If the problem is Home Premium not being able to run on the dual-processor T5610 (and you haven't confirmed that your T5610 DOES have two processors), then upgrading your Home Premium Windows system to Pro should accomplish what is needed... and without requiring reinstall of your application software, which you said you no longer have the original installer files and license keys for.

I confirmed via visual inspection, and owner's manual, that PC has two CPUs.

But you still haven't detailed exactly what "does not boot" means when you have the Home Premium hard drive installed in the T5610 and try to boot:

(1) Is it an actual boot-time BIOS hardware complaint? If so what is the BIOS message?

(2) Does Windows actually get started, but then quit for some reason? If so, what is the message you see?

(3) Is there some other symptom of the failure? Blue screen? Anything?? Please describe.

The last time I tried it, I get a very fast BSOD. I will try it again to confirm in a subsequent post. I have not been able to get any info on the BSOD

Anyway, my thought was that if it is truly Home Premium which can't run on what I am speculating (since you haven't confirmed that either) is a dual-processor T5610 and that it actually will not start at all because of the presence of that second processor (as opposed to the other possibility regarding the MS rules, namely that it would actually run but would simply would ignore the second processor), that if we can accomplish an upgrade from Home Premium to Pro in SOME machine that can at least boot from that Home Premium hard drive (now removed from your dead Dell Studio and being installed in assorted other PC's, trying to boot) that we can then TRY using the now-upgraded Pro hard drive back in the T5610. We know Pro will support the dual-processor T5610, so the [theoretical] goal was to upgrade Windows on your Home Premium hard drive to Pro. That is the goal.

You have that 1000% right.

Will it work? Can it work? Don't know. You still haven't clarified exactly what "does not boot" means, and until we know what the actual problem/symptom is this discussion and proposed solution is kind of completely hypothetical!! It is critical that you provide a clear explanation of what "does not boot" means when you try to boot from the Home Premium hard drive when it is installed in the T5610.

Even if you could get to try the Anytime Upgrade with the Home Premium hard drive installed in the Optiplex, would the upgrade be allowed and legal? It's an OEM licensed copy of Windows, not a retail copy, running on a different machine than it was originally licensed for (OEM licenses are not transferrable to other PC's). Would the upgrade process detect that current mismatch of installed OEM Windows Home Premium on a different CPU/motherboard than it originally was installed/licensed on? Probably.

Anytime Upgrade, from what I have seen the last two days, is a non-option. I can get a retail Win7 Premium DVD and license today, so this issue is now moot

Don't know what to say, other than that you certainly should have a usable and complete backup of your Home Premium hard drive data/files, just in case something you try to do goes wrong.

AMEN. I have tried and tried (see my first post) to get a bootable backup of my old hard drive. No success.

I also wonder why you don't still have the original application software installer files and license keys for what's currently on your Home Premium system from the Dell Studio. Aren't these programs for work, provided by work? This is a work machine you said, not a home machine, so isn't it possible to get fresh installer files and license keys from your network/enterprise people so that you can just install this software again onto your new T5610 which DOES boot from the hard drive that came with the machine and which was presumably provided by Dell and/or your network staff?

One of the dilemmas one faces as a corporate PC tech (last 30+ years) is that one deals with personal PCs from staff, it is an unofficial, yet very expected part of the job. You want to be professional but the same people who write the IT dept. rules will also expect you to fix users' personal PCs, especially those higher up on the food chain. In every shop I have been in, that is standard procedure. At the same time, you can work on your own PC as well. Obviously work comes first but the Studio PC and now the T5610 are my personal PCs.

Again, thank you for the massive amount of help.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jan 2015   #16
Adelphi1

Win7 64bit Home Premium
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by AddRAM View Post
Seems like there is a thing going around lately where people take hard drives (old) from other machines, (with a operating system already on it) and put it on a newer machine (or just different) and try to get the OS to run. Whatever happened to buying a (new) hard drive and installing windows on it, using a new copy and key or the key on the COA ? Hard drives and even ssd`s are so cheap and so is an oem copy of windows.

samsung evo - Best Buy

Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit - Operating Systems - Newegg.com

What OS originally came on this dual Xeon machine ?
Win 7 Pro.

My situation came about because my PC crashed with little warning. Did it make sense to get a new motherboard? Nope. The drives were good, so they could go to a new box.

Also, there are few reliable ways to migrate an app to a new CPU. How many apps did I have (even when I regularly removed non-used apps) on that CPU after many years? Did I have disks, or nowadays, install files? Even for an obsessive tech like me, I don't have the apps. Thus the need to migrate drive.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jan 2015   #17
Adelphi1

Win7 64bit Home Premium
 
 

DSperber:

But you still haven't detailed exactly what "does not boot" means when you have the Home Premium hard drive installed in the T5610 and try to boot:

(1) Is it an actual boot-time BIOS hardware complaint? If so what is the BIOS message?

(2) Does Windows actually get started, but then quit for some reason? If so, what is the message you see?

(3) Is there some other symptom of the failure? Blue screen? Anything?? Please describe.

First off, BIOS confirms two working CPUs in this box.

When I try to boot off old hard drive in T5610 in legacy mode, I get choices to run Startup repair or boot normally. I choose boot normally, I get the fastest bSOD, (I tried to freeze it and I can't) and then a reboot. If I try startup repair, the drive give lots of activity for a long time (over 35 minutes), it reboots and sends me to the same place. Methinks, it is hung in this configuration. I am pretty sure it will boot up on the OptiPlex 990 on Tuesday.

Meanwhile, I am getting my Windows Pro.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jan 2015   #18
dsperber

Windows 7 Pro x64 (1), Win7 Pro X64 (2)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Adelphi1 View Post
To summarize, the OptiPlex 990 is at work, the T5610 is at home.
AHA moment!! This hadn't been made clear before now. Now lots of questions are immediately answered.


Quote:
The old Home Premium hard drive can go to both PCs. I have no Internet on the drive at work because Home Premium does not allow masks and gateways. And I presume it will not boot at home, even in legacy mood, because the T5610 has two CPUs.
Again, this is true and explains what I was confused about until now.


Quote:
the Studio PC and now the T5610 are my personal PCs.
I had thought these were work machines. Now I understand the whole story.


So really, what it comes down to now is the following:

(1) You have a hard drive from the old/dead/gone Studio machine (which was your personal machine at home, where you had no problem getting to the Internet with its Windows Home Premium system) containing what was at one time a usable 100% working-on-the-Studio-machine Home Premium (x86 or x64?) system.

This Home Premium hard drive of course also has a bunch of additional self-installed application software (acquired over the years from who knows what sources, but for which the original installer files and license keys were not saved). You don't want to lose those already purchased(?) and installed 3rd-party products if possible (although I assume it is at least possible to purchase newer up-to-date versions of some of them now from the vendor).

And because you don't have those original installer files and license keys, all this old software cannot simply be reinstalled from scratch onto the 100% working-on-the-new-machine (but "virgin") new Win7 Pro x64 system hard drive that Dell provided with your newly acquired T5610 dual-Xeon machine. If you had those installer files and license keys there would be no problem at all, aside from the reinstall process onto the new Win7 Pro x64 system that came with the new hard drive in the new T5610.

==> Word to the wise for the future: ALWAYS KEEP YOUR INSTALLER FILES AND LICENSE KEYS. Create a folder for these, with separate sub-folders by vendor/product name. Include this folder in your normal regular nightly/weekly/monthly full/incremental/image backup process (to an external USB 3.0 drive or separate internal hard drive media).

(2) As an experiment, it turns out that the old Studio (Windows Home Premium) hard drive CAN be installed into the Optiplex 990 machine at work, and CAN be successfully booted there, at least as far as getting all the way to the Windows desktop.

That old Win7 Home Premium system can apparently [and remarkably, quite frankly] successfully adapt dynamically to the very significantly different motherboard, CPU, chipset, peripheral equipment, etc., in the Optiplex box from the original Studio box in which its OEM system was first living.

Now I'd be quite surprised if after the first time this experiment was performed using that drive in the Optiplex box and Windows does whatever it does when discovering new hardware in the Optiplex ("new home?" it probably thought) for the first-time, that there weren't also permanent changes to the OS system files on the hard drive itself to record these hardware changes permanently. In other words, I would not be surprised that the old Studio hard drive no longer looks exactly as it did when you first removed it from the Studio box, but now probably somewhat reflects its use in the Optiplex (for which its Dell-provided OEM one-machine license really was not intended).

(3) But because the Optiplex machine is at work, where there is a work-network environment (with subnets and gateways, not supported by Windows Home Premium) there is no way to get to the Internet from this hybrid experimental setup of the old Studio hard drive now living in an Optiplex mobo/CPU box.

And because this Studio/Optiplex hybrid system can't get to the Internet on this work machine, there's no way to accomplish while at work an Anytime Upgrade (if even possible on this second machine for this originally one-machine OEM license) to upgrade from Windows Home Premium to Windows Pro x64 on this hard drive, which is the new goal target Windows system since it WILL support the dual-processor hardware in the new T5610 at home.

The plan clearly is to get the Anytime Upgrade performed (if somehow possible), and then remove the hard drive from the Optiplex at work and bring it back home for insertion into the new T5610, where the newly upgraded-to Win7 Pro x64 system will in fact now work perfectly on the T5610 (now a third machine being used for the original Studio one-machine OEM license).

If only the Anytime Upgrade could be performed on this original old Studio hard drive with Home Premium and all of the "orphan" 3rd-party software products already installed, bringing this system from Home Premium to Pro x64, then hopefully [but not guaranteed] all of those old 3rd-party software products [for which the original installer/license files aren't available] would still be fully usable and just immediately work without any issue once the now Pro x64 hard drive is removed from the Optiplex at work and inserted into the T5610 at home, it's final target resting place.

(4) It's not possible to "borrow the work Optiplex box with the Studio hard drive in it" from work for the night, taking it home where you DO have straightforward home Internet access which WOULD be accessible from the Home Premium system living in the Optiplex at the moment?

If you could get the Optiplex home for the night, and actually do the Anytime Upgrade from Home Premium to Pro x64, you could then at least see if the newly Pro x64 hard drive could then be re-transplanted into the T5610 [also at home] to see if it really would now work?

(5) Although the Studio Home Premium hard drive installed version of Windows was apparently able to "make the jump" (i.e. discovering new hardware and acclimating accordingly) to the new Optiplex hardware, I'm honestly not surprised that it seems to have a MUCH HARDER TIME ADJUSTING to the radically different hardware (mobo/dual-CPU, chipset, peripherals, etc.) in the T5610.

So your immediate-BSOD trying to use it in the T5610 is not really a surprise. Doing what is required to first-time discover of moderately different new hardware is moderately challenging for an existing installed Windows system, when the hardware differences are moderate. But in this case, the dual-processor T5610 is a radically different machine and not designed to be supported by Home Premium at all.

I'm not surprised by a BSOD doing this experiment.

(6) I've never done it so I don't know if its even possible, for you to do what effectively is an Anytime Upgrade in the office on your Optiplex box with the Studio hard drive installed (and seemingly "operational" on that box) but where there is no Internet access, using nothing more than a retail Win7 Pro x64 installation DVD.

Presumably, if you do actually accomplish that upgrade using the DVD (rather than a fresh cold install), once you are now at Pro x64 on that hard drive you should now be able to navigate your work network with its subnets and gateways, and connect to MS Licensing/Activation for this system.

But quite honestly, I believe there still are licensing and activation issues trying to upgrade your original already installed Studio Home Premium OEM license system to Pro x64 using a retain Pro x64 installation DVD with its own separate product key.

If you don't have yet some other available machine (say from a friend, in some home/non-work environment where Internet Access would be available and the Anytime Upgrade attempted) I suppose it can't hurt to not give up yet but to at least try accomplishing the Anytime Upgrade on the Optiplex at work using the retail Pro x64 installation DVD.

But I would be "cautiously optimistic" at best, and "realistically pessimistic" at worst. You might just prepare yourself for in the end not actually being able to accomplish what you're trying to accomplish. You may actually have to re-purchase those needed 3rd-party software products. Salvaging any crucial data off of the old hard drive is not even a problem, but the software products themselves must obviously be truly "installed" onto the new Pro x64 system by running an installer file, and there's no way around that other than to have those installer files and license keys.


Bottom line: this is quite a challenge, apparently all the result of not retaining the original 3ed-party software installer files and license keys. Had those files and keys still been available today, they could be used to reinstall all these products on the brand new 100% working Win7 Pro x64 system hard drive that Dell provided pre-installed in the new T5610 box.

Also, one-machine OEM licensing may really not even technically and legally allow you to do what you're trying to do.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jan 2015   #19
Adelphi1

Win7 64bit Home Premium
 
 

I am having awful time find a retail Win 7 professional. It is Microsoft OEM. Do you know of sites that actually sell full retail version? Are those disks navy blue with hologram?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jan 2015   #20
Adelphi1

Win7 64bit Home Premium
 
 

In the midst of a massive home renovation as well. Looking on e-bay for full retail versions.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 Getting New Win 7 Pro PC To Work With Old Home Premium Drive




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