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Windows 7: Windows uses a lot more pagefile that assigned.

09 Oct 2016   #21
Messerschmitt

windows 7
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by LMiller7 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by AddRAM View Post
But the problem here is, according to the OP, the system is using a larger page file then he has allotted.
I suggest he go a week without a page file, see what happens.
It is clear from the Task Manager screenshot that the pagefile usage is no where near as high as the MSI Afterburner screenshot would seem to indicate. The pagefile size would have to be at least the size of pagefile usage which would produce a commit limit of over 32 GB. The commit limit is equal to RAM size + pagefile size - a few MB. Task Manager shows a commit limit of only 16 GB but due to rounding it is likely closer to 17 GB. The most reasonable explanation is that MSI Afterburner is showing commit charge but misleadingly labeled as pagefile usage. This misleading labeling is actually quite common. XP Task Manager did just that.

From the information provided there is nothing to indicate that there is any pagefile usage at all.

But there is a problem in that the commit charge is very close to the commit limit. The commit limit cannot be exceeded. If the pagefile were disabled the limit would be lower than what is currently shown. Before that point were reached there would be out of memory errors. The fact that there is plenty of RAM is available is not at all relevant.

The situation regarding the high commit charge must be resolved before even considering disabling the pagefile.
So what exactly is the difference between commit and page file. I thought Commit = Ram used + page file used. My ram usage is 6.3GB, since Commit is 17GB, that would mean my page file would be the difference, almost 11GB. Yet my limit is 1GB.

This is where I am confused and I am questioning if the page file is actually correctly assigned.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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09 Oct 2016   #22
LMiller7

Windows 7 Pro 64 bit
 
 

Commit charge has nothing to do with RAM usage or pagefile usage or any combination of the two. It is rather difficult to explain and I do not have time right now.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
09 Oct 2016   #23
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

Believe me LMiller7 can explain this subject better than I can.

Microsoft has spent a lot of time and money on Windows 7's management of memory.
Knowing all the the in's and out's of how Windows 7 manages memory is above my pay grade.
Because I don't know all the in's and out's is another reason I use system management for pagefile.
I also leave pagefile and Temp's on Partition "C". I know of no reason Windows 7 should have to keep looking for them in other places.
If you running out of free space on your drive/partition you have two options.
1. Remove things from the drive/partition.
2. Get a bigger drive.

I personally would never use a program such as MSI Afterburner to make judgements about pagefile.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

09 Oct 2016   #24
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18 MATE, W10IP VM, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 
Ed Bott Article

From an Ed Bott article about Windows 7 Memory:
Quote:
Watching the color-coded Physical Memory bar graph on the Memory tab of Resource Monitor is by far the best way to see exactly what Windows 7 is up to at any given time. Here, from left to right, is what you'll see:
Windows uses a lot more pagefile that assigned.-w7-memory-ed-bott-.png
Hardware Reserved (gray) This is physical memory that is set aside by the BIOS and other hardware drivers (especially graphics adapters). This memory cannot be used for processes or system functions.

In Use (green) The memory shown here is in active use by the Windows kernel, by running processes, or by device drivers. This is the number that matters above all others. If you consistently find this green bar filling the entire length of the graph, you're trying to push your physical RAM beyond its capacity.

Modified (orange) This represents pages of memory that can be used by other programs but would have to be written to the page file before they can be reused.

Standby (blue) Windows 7 tries as hard as it can to keep this cache of memory as full as possible. In XP and earlier, the Standby list was basically a dumb first-in, first-out cache. Beginning with Windows Vista and continuing with Windows 7, the memory manager is much smarter about the Standby list, prioritizing every page on a scale of 0 to 7 and reusing low-priority pages ahead of high-priority ones. (Another Russinovich article, Inside the Windows Vista Kernel: Part 2, explains this well. Look for the "Memory Priorities" section.) If you start a new process that needs memory, the lowest-priority pages on this list are discarded and made available to the new process.

Free (light blue) As you'll see if you step through the entire gallery, Windows tries its very best to avoid leaving any memory at all free. If you find yourself with a big enough chunk of memory here, you can bet that Windows will do its best to fill itby copying data from the disk and adding the new pages to the Standby list, based primarily on its SuperFetch measurements. As Russinovich notes, this is done at a rate of a few pages per second with Very Low priority I/Os, so it shouldn't interfere with performance.

In short, Windows 7 (unlike XP and earlier Windows versions) goes by the philosophy that empty RAM is wasted RAM and tries to keep it as full as possible, without impacting performance.
Questions? Comments? Leave them in the Talkback section and I'll answer them in a follow-up post or two.
Article
Windows 7 memory usage: What's the best way to measure? | ZDNet
Gallery
How to measure Windows 7 memory usage | ZDNet


My System SpecsSystem Spec
09 Oct 2016   #25
LMiller7

Windows 7 Pro 64 bit
 
 

Quote:
In short, Windows 7 (unlike XP and earlier Windows versions) goes by the philosophy that empty RAM is wasted RAM and tries to keep it as full as possible, without impacting performance.
Actually this philosophy disn't start with Windows 7, or Vista, or even XP, but has been a part of the NT platform from the very beginning. Vista introduced some innovative methods to use memory that would otherwise be free but this was an enhancement, not a change in philosophy.

For the first time in Vista Windows Task manager and resource Monitor showed that available memory consisted of standby and free memory. Standby memory will typically form the largest part and serves a dual role. Like free memory it is available for use by any process that needs it. But in the meantime it acts as a kind of cache and makes a very significant contribution to good performance.

XP and earlier systems showed only available memory and people tended to think of this memory as all free. A reasonable assumption, but wrong. Standby memory was not introduced in Vista. The Microsoft publication Inside Windows 2000 discusses it in detail. I read an article written before the introduction of NT 3.1 (the first version of NT) in 1993 where it was mentioned. Standby memory has been a part of NT from the very beginning but it was not until Vista that it was shown as distinct from Free memory. As far as I aware the only utility that would show Standby memory in older versions was a kernel debugger, an advanced program used primarily by programmers.

Vista did introduce Superfetch which made better us of otherwise free memory but under the right conditions Standby memory can form the largest part of available memory without it.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Oct 2016   #26
LMiller7

Windows 7 Pro 64 bit
 
 

Regarding the commit charge and limit:

Explaining complex technology in a way that is technically accurate and easy to understand is very difficult. Most descriptions of the commit charge are either quite technical or wrong. I will attempt to do that as simply as possible.

While an application is running it must often allocate or request space from the system memory manager to store temporary data. Storage of data in files is outside the scope of this post. Note that this allocation doesn't actually reserve storage for the data. The system memory manager is just promising that the storage will be available when the application requires it and this may occur long after the allocation is made. Initially the data would be stored in RAM but the memory manager may at it's discretion offload the data to the pagefile. The storage limit is the size of RAM + pagefile size - a few MB. When approving allocations the memory manager must ensure it doesn't exceed the storage that is physically available. It does this by maintaining a running total of allocations (the commit charge) and making sure it does not exceed physical storage (the commit limit). Exceeding the limit, if this were allowed to happen, could have dire consequences such as a system crash.

This can be compared to an airline accepting reservations for a flight. When the reservation is made there is no actual assignment of a seat on the plane, just ensuring that one will be available. The current number of reservations is like the commit charge and the number of seats on the plane is the commit limit.

When an application attempts to make an allocation of storage that would exceed the commit limit the memory manager will issue an out of memory warning, or error if it is unable to expand the pagefile to increase storage space. This can happen even if there is plenty of RAM currently available. That fortunate situation may not prevail later when the application tries to use the storage it was promised. If the memory manager approved the allocation it would be putting itself in a dangerous position. It would essentially be lying to the application. It would be like the airline giving out more reservations than there were seats on the plane. Maybe it will get lucky and someone will not show up for the flight. But if everyone does there might be 101 passengers with only 100 sets for them. The airline has a problem. Most airlines do over reserve but that is another matter.

This might seem complicated but it is actually a VERY simplified version of what actually happens.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Oct 2016   #27
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

Very good LMiller7.

If I'm understanding correctly what you posted; I have look at Standby Memory as (just in case I need memory).
A program starts and request memory to use and Standby memory just in case it needs it. The program might not need or ever use the Standby but it is reserved for the program. (Just in case).

Free Memory is just memory that is not being used or reserved to be use for anything.

My system has 16 gb of memory and I have yet to use half of it at any one time.
Then why do I have 16 gb of ram.
It's my personal (just in case I ever need it.)

If by chance I'm using more programs that need more memory, Windows 7 will just grab some Free Memory and switch it to a combination of In Use and/or Standby memory for the use of the added programs. My systems are set to Windows 7 manage memory.

***LMiller7 are you and I on the same page? Or am I off in wa wa land with my thinking.

Jack
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Oct 2016   #28
AddRAM

Windows 7 Pro x64 Windows 10 Pro x64
 
 

Everything you do on your computer will go into the Standby memory category.

Eventually your Standby Column will be full, and your free memory will "look" empty, which is totally normal for Windows 7

But your actual "in use" should always be roughly the same depending on what you use your PC for.

Call it PC Pre thinking for you. If it didn`t do this your CPU would work harder to get the data off your drive, which in turn makes your drive work harder.


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