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Windows 7: Libraries : the way it should be

07 Apr 2009   #1

Vista H.P. SP1 x32 Seven RC x64
 
 
Libraries : the way it should be

Hi

I thought something about libraries and the way it work on Seven.

I like the concept, and I think they really have to push in this way. But at this time Library feature goes not totally where it should be.

Today when you launch Seven for the first time libraries includes old default folders like "My docs" & Cie. User have to know he can put what he want, or even create new libraries… Not sure lot of people may do the work…
And for adding folder into libraries, I think there's a big issue for me: The folder must already be indexed. So, user must add the folder in the index option control panel. Operation that most people will never know the existence. And I don’t mention the fact that you need NTFS disc drive, with index option active => lot of really different step for one goal, not very user friendly.

I think there's a really big miss at this time. Adding a folder into libraries should be the only thing to do. Putting it into index location must be automatic and transparent when you choose the folder you want to add in a library!

The second thing is that they have to rip of defaults folders one time for all. When you first launch Seven you have to manage homegroups and sharing folders. Why not add a step before, allowing user to manage the "Docs", "Music", "Videos" and other default folder ?

If you don't show to the users that they can change the "physical" location of the data, they will never do… most people don't take care of it, until the day they have trouble… too late!
Libraries are totally useless until default folders work the way it is under XP and Vista.

And finally, of course MS has to work with partners and hardware vendors for that. HP, Dell & Cie have to stop selling PC with one big HDD … one big partition (500GB in C: !! Nice guys! ) and all the data stored in there by default.

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07 Apr 2009   #2

W7 X-64 RTM,SUSE 11.1, XP PRO SP3 as a VM, VMware ESXi
 
 

Hi there -- Bonjour

Libraries are great once you get used to them but as I remarked on another post there's no way to SHARE libraries across a network even if the network consists of Windows 7 machines only.

Now you can see a potential problem here.

Say I have a folder called "Glacier pics Apr 2009) which I've just added to a Library on Computer A. It's possible that this folder isn't on a "Shared drive".

Now imagine this scenario -- I'm using a Laptop on a network and want to access the "Glacier pics Apr 2009") folder.

Where is it and how do I find it. If you use the Network browsing facility You'll only see your defined shares (either discs or directories or both). No Libraries.

This still means I'd have to make either the drive the folder is on "Shareable" or the folder itself.

This to me is a very serious limitation on the usefulness of libraries on Multiple computer systems as I now have EXTRA work to do -- as well as maintaining the library I have to ensure that all the components in it are "shareable" across a network.

Of course you can get to the library by using "Remote Desktop" or similar but in a lot of situations that option is neither desirable or possible.

To implement shared libraries would not be a problem -- there's got to be a catalog or internal table of the components of the library so allowing the remote computer to access this would easily enable the "sharing" facility. Anybody who has played around with data bases such as MySQL knows this is quite simple to do -- just define a table which contains the file links / urls.

Cheers
jimbo
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07 Apr 2009   #3

Vista H.P. SP1 x32 Seven RC x64
 
 

Hi Jimbo.

I wanted answer to you, but u do it for me in a other thread

But if we talk about network share. I tried to put network share on my libraries.. unsuccessful.
I am totally unable to put any network drive on the index location.

I can understand when it's with my linux server under Debian/samba
But I tried with a Windows home Server, WDS4.0 installed.. no way too ...
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07 Apr 2009   #4

W7 X-64 RTM,SUSE 11.1, XP PRO SP3 as a VM, VMware ESXi
 
 

Hi there
It is possible but only if you share the Libraries in a Home Group (that only works with Windows 7 Machines and you can only have 1 Home group per Network).

To share the library in a network just click the Share with button in the explorer bar and select READ (or READ WRITE) to the home network. The computers must be members of the Home group

The other computer(s) on the network will then see the library under in the Home Group icon in Windows explorer.

Better than nothing I suppose.

Cheers
jimbo
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08 Apr 2009   #5

Vista H.P. SP1 x32 Seven RC x64
 
 

Hi

Sorry to tell you that but you're wrong

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
It is possible but only if you share the Libraries in a Home Group
See there:
http://www.sevenforums.com/general-d...ia-player.html

Using Network Shares in Libraries | Hacking Windows 7 Media Center
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08 Apr 2009   #6

W7 X-64 RTM,SUSE 11.1, XP PRO SP3 as a VM, VMware ESXi
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by LePoilu View Post
The "Library" in the Media player is really a "Database" rather than a conventional "Library". Of course any Database can be shared (after all that's the whole point of it -- to be accessed by many users irrespective of locations -- such as Online shopping / booking airline seats etc etc.

We are talking here about "Libraries" as a collection of folders which can be shared as a Library rather than individual shares. These libraries contain primarily DATA.

These still can only be shared in Windows 7 systems by using the Homegroup feature. It's no good uisng WMP for saving your EXCEL spread sheets or shared project documentation in. Besides what if the other machine doesn't have multimedia capability.

So my OP still stands.

Cheers
jimbo
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 Apr 2009   #7

Windows 7
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by LePoilu View Post
And for adding folder into libraries, I think there's a big issue for me: The folder must already be indexed. So, user must add the folder in the index option control panel. Operation that most people will never know the existence. And I don’t mention the fact that you need NTFS disc drive, with index option active => lot of really different step for one goal, not very user friendly.
I've never had to do any of that. I've simply created a library and added a (non-indexed) folder into it. Worked like a charm.

I have to wonder how long it'll take before 3rd party programs are able to use libraries though. For example you can't save files from browsers to libraries but have to point them to the actual folders instead.
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08 Apr 2009   #8

Vista H.P. SP1 x32 Seven RC x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by laxu View Post
I've never had to do any of that. I've simply created a library and added a (non-indexed) folder into it. Worked like a charm.

Are you sure folder were not in index location ?

What built do you use ? Maybe the recent built can do it well; so it would be a good news. I don't know because i'm still on built 7000
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08 Apr 2009   #9

XP/win7 x86 build 7127
 
 

I think you might wanna get off that 48 build jimbo. No problems sharing over network here at all, neither with 7 to 7 nor 7 to XP or XP to 7... no problems with sharing the libraries with added folders to said libraries (example inluding wallpaper folder to pictures library). Same for created libraries. Altho i do have the folders indexed. Am using IPv6 also just fyi.

There are two ways to "share" the libraries over a network/homegroup. One is the share with option (which I define it as the XP'ish way to share over a network under 7). Or use the homegroup for its intended purpose, which is to share thru the libraries inside the homegroup. If you use the "include in library" option, this will not display a "network drive" icon on the client 7 pc, when viewing the target 7 pc user libraries/homegroup. This is the whole concept of the Longhorn Castle / MS 7 Homegroup. Tho you will have to index those folders. But if not mistaken, once included in library, windows auto adds that location to the index.

You can also create more than one Homegroup on the network. You can also create a different Homegroup on the same network, in the same workgroup. Its all about the key/password that lets you inside the "Castle" to access its files. If you just use the share with, it will work, yes (under 7000 still), but it will "advertise" your shares/shared drive(s)/folders.


My main gripe about all this is completely missed when talking about Homegroups and libraries. That is the NTFS/FAT.... Cant include an external USB FAT32 drive in a library under 7. I can share, but not include. Why this is a problem? Well for me i use also as a dvr backup or can use as a flash drive to a dvd player. Of course, the other hardware will not read NTFS, no firmware out to do it either. So, i have to keep it Fat32 for my needs, and not able to include to a library.
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09 Apr 2009   #10

Vista H.P. SP1 x32 Seven RC x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Digger View Post
My main gripe about all this is completely missed when talking about Homegroups and libraries. That is the NTFS/FAT.... Cant include an external USB FAT32 drive in a library under 7. I can share, but not include. Why this is a problem? Well for me i use also as a dvr backup or can use as a flash drive to a dvd player. Of course, the other hardware will not read NTFS, no firmware out to do it either. So, i have to keep it Fat32 for my needs, and not able to include to a library.

FAT32 may not be indexed by default. You need an addon call UNCFAT for Desktop Search, which allow you to index FAT32 drive or Network location (other than location allready indexed on the network computer)

If you have x64 edition, UNCFAT doesn't work. On x86 edition it work with Vista, so should work on Seven.
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