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Windows 7: Trying to clone displays

28 Mar 2014   #21
rmike1991

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Kari View Post
Reading this through I have difficulties to understand what I just typed . Hopefully you get it.
WOW! This is quite a post! I think I understand it based on plain English explanation BUT (don't kill me for that question) How is that possible to still have 1600X1200 resolution on the monitor in Windows XP with the same exact setup? I mean everything is the same except the Windows version. Same monitor, same TV, same video card, same cables, same mouse pad ... Just everything. If we go by the rules you just described, it wouldn't be possible at all (doesn't matter what OS we are talking about). Right? Yet it's possible in XP and I have to compromise 1200 for 900 in 7 so my desktop will look like.. you know.. Somehow those rules could be overwritten in previous versions of Windows. I want to know how and I want to overwrite them again. This is why I'm here asking for help. As a matter of fact before I posted here I've done a lot of research on the web and people like me (looking for the same solution) were saying that it was also possible in Vista. I've never used that OS so I can't vouch for that. Went to XP from 98 and would run it for another ?? years if Microsoft would support it.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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28 Mar 2014   #22
dsperber

Windows 7 Pro x64 (1), Win7 Pro X64 (2)
 
 

As I requested above, can you please make a second YouTube video showing what this looks like under Win7?

Your mention of "compromise 1200 for 900" is unclear to me. What are you referring to??

Anyway, what is needed is a Windows 7 video version of the same thing you produced previously with WinXP. That will make absolutely clear what you're complaining about under Win7.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
29 Mar 2014   #23
rmike1991

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
I'm curious to see what, if anything is different. Again, picture = 1000 words, so this demonstration approach is perfect.
I don’t know if the video will look any different but the screen resolution will. In your specs I see that the screen resolution that you’re using is 1920x1200. Try to step down a little, click apply and see how “beautiful” everything will look on your monitor. Same thing is when Win7 forces me from 1600X1200 to 1440X900

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
As I requested above, can you please make a second YouTube video showing what this looks like under Win7?
I will do it tomorrow.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
Your mention of "compromise 1200 for 900" is unclear to me. What are you referring to??
Sorry to make it unclear. I was replying to Kari’s post:
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Kari View Post
In this case the best possible compromize would be to use 1600 * 900 resolution
I was referring to my monitor's resolution. Now it's 1600X1200 and when I click on “duplicate”, Windows changes it to 1440X900. I should have put the whole thing there.



Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
However this doesn't mean you're not watching both display devices at 1600x1200.
If I understood this correctly – it does. Because once again: I can’t keep 1600x1200 resolution. If I could this thread would not exist.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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29 Mar 2014   #24
rmike1991

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by AddRAM View Post
Download and install CPU-z then open the memory tab to check.
Thank you. I have CPU-z. Will run it and check tomorrow on 7. I have dual on XP
My System SpecsSystem Spec
29 Mar 2014   #25
dsperber

Windows 7 Pro x64 (1), Win7 Pro X64 (2)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by rmike1991 View Post
In your specs I see that the screen resolution that you’re using is 1920x1200. Try to step down a little, click apply and see how “beautiful” everything will look on your monitor. Same thing is when Win7 forces me from 1600X1200 to 1440X900
1920x1200 (i.e. 16x10) is the native resolution of my monitor. It is certainly rectangular shaped, but it is a bit taller than your standard HDTV or lesser monitor which has a 16x9 aspect ratio (i.e. 1920x1080, or 1280x720, or 1680x1050.)

All this means is that when viewing a 16x9 image (e.g. standard HDTV picture) on my 16x10 screen, I have small black bars on top and bottom of the 16x9 image which is centered vertically (but extends horizontally across the complete width of my 16x10 screen).

If I change the resolution of my screen (i.e. the Windows desktop) from 1920x1200 to 1920x1080, the amount of "desktop real estate" shrinks in the vertical direction, since I now only have 1080 pixels vertically. But those 1080 pixels are stretched in the vertical direction in order to fill the entire 16x10 sreeen shape. So actually my desktop appears slightly distorted, as I'm looking at a 16x9 image (i.e. the 1920x1080 Windows desktop) spread completely (horizontally and vertically) across my 16x10 screen. So the image no longer has its OAR (original aspect ratio) of 16x9, but rather has been stretched to fit completely onto a 16x10 (background) screen raster.

That's what is meant by "native resolution", i.e. the actual shape of the screen and the presentation configuration which will give you the BEST LOOKING IMAGE... i.e. no horizontal or vertical stretching at all, but all OAR images.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
As I requested above, can you please make a second YouTube video showing what this looks like under Win7?
I will do it tomorrow.


Quote:
I was referring to my monitor's resolution. Now it's 1600X1200 and when I click on “duplicate”, Windows changes it to 1440X900. I should have put the whole thing there.
Why is this the first time I've seen this information? Did I just miss it before? Or is this the first time you're mentioning that THIS is what happens??

What if you UNCHECK the "scale image to full panel size" in CCC? What difference does that make?

Note that 1600x1200 is the 4:3 shape of your desktop monitor. And 1440x900 is 16:10. Can't imagine right off the bat why this should happen, or why 16:10 would be what it changes to?

So now I understand that it is THIS resolution change from 1600x1200 to 1440x900 which defines the problem. That was completely unknown to me before now.

What happens if you uncheck the "scale" box?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
29 Mar 2014   #26
rmike1991

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
Again, picture = 1000 words, so this demonstration approach is perfect.
Exactly! I agree with you 200%

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
Why is this the first time I've seen this information? Did I just miss it before? Or is this the first time you're mentioning that THIS is what happens??
No, it’s not the first time. I guess you did miss it:

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by rmike1991 View Post
So how do I keep my monitor’s resolution while doing that? As soon as I click on “duplicate”, Windows changes it to 1440X900 and I can’t change it.
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
What if you UNCHECK the "scale image to full panel size" in CCC?
It is unchecked in Windows 7. If I check it there things get ugly.

I made couple of videos/presentations today to make myself clear of what I want to accomplish. Watch them in HD.

The 1st one is about duplicating screens in Windows 7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWLC8yVALDA

The 2nd video is about what happens when the resolution is changed in Windows 7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_S59QO20HI

The 3rd one is the requested video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWHbaF63J8s

The last two videos will show exactly what I want to do in Windows 7. Those are XP videos.
In this one I forgot to open the properties on the desktop to show that it’s running 1600X1200 but since it was already uploaded to youtube …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUkIqjrCVOo

Finally the last one. This is the way it should work...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erm5pOrwVs8

Thanks for not giving up on me! I think Kari already did
My System SpecsSystem Spec
29 Mar 2014   #27
rmike1991

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by AddRAM View Post
Is your memory running in dual channel with 10 GBs ?
Yes it is.

Trying to clone displays-cpu-z_win7.jpg


My System SpecsSystem Spec
29 Mar 2014   #28
Kari

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

 

What is it you don't understand? This thread is becoming ridiculous.

Try to understand this: Your TV has a maximum resolution of 1920X1080. It can show maximum 1920 pixels horizontally, and 1080 pixels vertically It cannot show 1200 pixels vertically.When you clone displays, the lesser resolution and aspect ratio of the displays you have is used. Read this post again: Trying to clone displays

What you want is not possible. It was not possible in Windows XP, it is not possible in Windows 7. Please confirm you have understood this, somehow you seem to be confused and I am not sure you understand written English. You tell you understand, then you go further demanding something absolutely, totally, utterly impossible.

If you want both displays to use an individual resolution, you have to use extended desktop settings. Please try to understand the meaning of the terms cloning or duplicating: a pixel by pixel copy. How can a 1600*1200 display be cloned to 1920*1080? Do you really not understand this simple thing?

What you want is not possible, as we have told you several times. Please stop now!

I am becoming frustrated. You have been told that what you want is absolutely impossible. You insist it is possible and provide videos to prove your point, not understanding that the videos prove the opposite, the thing we have been trying to tell you: It is not possible!.


Kari
My System SpecsSystem Spec
29 Mar 2014   #29
3D Jed

Windows 7 pro x64 SP1
 
 

Just to confuse things - anyone else notice that the OP's YouTube was in 1440p HD ? See attachment screenshot

1920 * 1440 is 4:3 but . . . I thought his 4:3 was 1600 . . .

Trying to clone displays-1440p.jpg


My System SpecsSystem Spec
29 Mar 2014   #30
dsperber

Windows 7 Pro x64 (1), Win7 Pro X64 (2)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by rmike1991 View Post
Now it's 1600X1200 and when I click on “duplicate”, Windows changes it to 1440X900.
Actually, your Win7 video shows that this is NOT what happens when you click on "duplicate". It was YOU who changed it to 1440x900, not Windows.

What actually happened when you clicked "duplicate" was that for some reason Windows changed the resolutions to 1280x960... from the original 1600x1200 which was originally in effect on the CRT monitor. Note that 1280x960 is also a 4:3 aspect ratio resolution, similar to 1600x1200 which is also 4:3.

Windows made that resolution change when you initiated "clone" mode because 1600x1200 cannot be displayed on the 1920x1080 Vizio screen. Maximum vertical size is 1080, so 1200 is too large. Remember it's a 16x9 HDTV, not an actual computer monitor which might support additional VESA resolutions. 1200 vertical is unacceptable, since the Vizio only has 1080 vertical maximum (remember, it's a 1920x1080 screen).

So Windows reduced the "clone" resolution down from 1600x1200 (4x3) to 1280x960, which is also a 4:3 resolution and is acceptable to the Vizio's vertical screen size. In fact it is apparently the largest possible 4:3 resolution the Vizio can accept (in its maximum 1080 vertical screen dimension).

And judging from other the values shown in the slider when you decided to dropdown the list, in addition to 1280x960 the Vizio can also accept 1280x1024, 1360x768, 1360x1024, and 1440x900... all of which do not exceed the Vizio's maximum of 1080 vertical screen size dimension, while at the same time also being acceptable to the Lenovo 4:3 monitor.

Note that as shown in your Win7 Res Change video, when you did manually (yourself) change to 1440x900, this image was presented inside the Vizio's 1920x1080 screen size as a 1440x900 centered image. So it looks "postage stamp", i.e. horizontally and vertically centered at 1440x900 size within 1920x1080 real estate, and technically speaking there are black bars on left and right, as well as on top and bottom... hence "postage stamp".

Similarly, if you'd left things the way they were originally changed to when you pushed the "duplicate" button (i.e. when Windows changed it to 1280x960), you would have again seen "postage stamp" on the Vizio, displaying a 1280x960 window within 1920x1080 real estate. Of course the 1280x960 (4x3) postage stamp would have been shaped differently than the 1440x900 (16x10) postage stamp, but both would have been "postage stamp" within the 1920x1080 screen size of the Vizio.

Again, the Vizio is an HDTV (not a true monitor) and has a set of acceptable display resolutions it can handle, up to a maximum of its "native" recommended resolution of 1920x1080 which would therefore fill 100% of its screen real estate with a 1920x1080 Windows desktop image.


Quote:
It is unchecked in Windows 7. If I check it there things get ugly.
I didn't see a visual proof of this statement in Win7, in any video. You showed clone mode details and that check box for XP in your WinXP video where the box IS CHECKED for both monitor and HDTV.

But you didn't show the equivalent in Win7, which you now say IS UN-CHECKED!! This is the opposite of how you have things in XP as clearly proven by your WinXP video, so now I'm not entirely surprised that things don't work exactly the same way in XP and 7.

So... how about CHECKING the boxes in Win7, to match how you have it in WinXP?? You say "if I check it there things get ugly", but I'd like to see what you mean... in another video please??


Anyway, I really do want you to upgrade your Catalyst driver to the latest 13.9 LEGACY driver, along with the matching current Catalyst Control Center. You don't need the optional HydraVision package at the bottom of the page. When you get the 13.9 components successfully installed, be sure to go into Catalyst Control Center and switch to "advanced mode" from the default "basic mode", so that you can see all options for everything.

And one more thing. If you look at your XP Desk TV video, you'll notice that on the left edge of your WinXP desktop on the Lenovo monitor there are 15 rows of shortcut icons, with the top row having 5 and the bottom row having 1. Now look at the Vizio screen later in the same video. Note that there are only 12 rows of shortcut icons, with the top row having 3 and the bottom row having 2. So the Vizio presentation in "clone" mode on XP has chopped off the top and bottom of what is simultaneously visible on the lenovo monitor. I don't know if this is being caused by some ZOOM MODE you might have active at this moment on the Vizio HDTV (which seems likely to me as the only plausible explanation), or some other additional oddity anomaly in the XP Catalyst driver and "clone" mode with different screen sizes.
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