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Windows 7: Trying to clone displays

02 Apr 2014   #41
dsperber

Windows 7 Pro x64 (1), Win7 Pro X64 (2)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by rmike1991 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
What we don't really know is whether this image is 1600x1200 (which I would have thought to be IMPOSSIBLE to display on the 1920x1080 TV
My guess is that “Scale image to full panel size” checked resizes that 1200 to fit into 1080. Obviously it fits.
Well, if true and it's actually the same 1200 pixel Windows desktop vertical content as shown on the CRT but just compressed vertically to appear in 1080 pixels on the HDTV screen (i.e. 1200 pixels worth of desktop reduced in vertical pixel size so as to display fully using only 1080 vertical pixels on the TV), and that 1600x1200 for the clone setup is actually a valid resolution in WinXP in CLONE mode although it does NOT show up as a valid clone resolution in Win7 (where your older driver supported 1440x900 max for clone mode while the latest 13.9 driver now supports 1600x900 max for clone mode), then I suppose it points to the Win7 video drivers as the "culprit".

If they could increase the max clone mode resolution via software, in a newer driver from 1440x900 to 1600x900, and if WinXP really supported 1600x1200 (though that seems to require the TV to be able compress the 1200 vertical height for display in 1080 pixels, something I really didn't think was possible), then maybe it really is just a Win7 driver issue.


Quote:
No. This is not what I say. I say that Windows 7 forces a switch to 1440x900 from 1600x1200 on my monitor and keeps it that way in the clone/duplicate mode (I loose 1600X1200 on my monitor). And this is the only problem that I have.
Well, with the newer Win7 driver installed I guess you now can use 1600x900 instead of the previous 1440x900. So that's a small improvement, yes?

Of course this is not increasing the vertical maximum, but rather only the horizontal maximum. It's still 900 vertical (with the TV screen being 1080), whereas the 1600 vs. 1440 maximum horizontally does still seem reasonable as the horizontal width of the HDTV screen is 1920 pixels. So this simply means thinner black bars on left and right of the 1600x900 image on the 1920x1080 screen, i.e. more Windows desktop real estate width is possible.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
It's vertical height is 1080, so 1200 cannot be displayed.
Quote:
Let’s try this. You have a king size pillow and you want to put it in the Vons’s plastic bag. Of course your pillow is larger than your bag. But you can squeeze it in. Right? In my mind this is exactly what the software does. Depending on the resolution (with “Scale image to full panel size” checked) it will either shrink or expend it to the size of the other screen. And my video (taken in XP) proves it.
I guess so. I thought the TV's pixels were fixed size, and you simply used n of them to display that equal number of pixels from the Windows desktop. I didn't think it was possible to display 1200 vertical pixels of Windows desktop in a 1080 vertical pixel maximum HDTV screen.

But... I don't know how else to explain your WinXP results other than a "bug" in the driver and CCC display, which is a stretch.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
I still would sure like you to be using CURRENT DRIVERS and CURRENT CATALYST CONTROL CENTER in Win7, instead of software from 3-4 years ago.
Quote:
Installed the latest and greatest driver 13-9-legacy_vista_win7_64_dd_ccc_whql. The only thing added is a maximum resolution of 1600X900 (maximum was 1440X900). So couple more versions of drivers and they will hopefully add 1600X200 and it’s going to be as good as XP driver in 2009 . Also in Win7 I have different options on TV: connected to XP-> Zoom-Panoramic-Normal-Wide; connected to 7-> Zoom-Stretch-Wide.
Here are 2 videos with old and new drivers/CCC on Win7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2FUok0U8V4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJi9pHUzzAg
Well now you've got me VERY confused.

Originally, you said your Win7 setup did NOT have that "scale image to fill panel size" box checked, and that if you did check it problems arose (which you "demonstrated" with a previous video). This was in contrast to the WinXP setup that DID have the same "scale image to fill panel size" box checked. I brought up this discrepancy between Win7 vs. WinXP's setup, and suggested you CHECK the Win7 setup, which you did but then showed in the video how this caused problems.

And yet now, with the newest 13.9 driver and CCC, sure enough I see that the "scale image to fill panel size" box IS NOW CHECKED!! Did you do that? Or was that just the default? So now the Win7 setup is identical to the WinXP setup? Is it better or worse than it was before, when you were using the old driver? What happens if you now UNCHECK that item in the new Win7 driver/CCC setup... better or worse?

Is the newly available 1600x900 in Win7 (instead of the 1600x1200 available in WinXP) almost acceptable? Seems that this is the only difference now, meaning the Win7 vertical desktop height is now less than the 1600x1200 for WinXP? I would think this would force Windows to rearrange your desktop icon shortcuts so they would all be visible using 1600x900.

So... how close are we to what you want? What does that video look like now, when the new 1600x900 clone mode max resolution is selected? If NORMAL (zoom mode on the HDTV) is no longer available, might this be caused by the item checked for "scale image to fill panel size"? If you UNCHECK that item, can your TV now use NORMAL mode?

(you live somewhere in LA and I live in MDR... I'm almost ready to suggest I come over in person, to work through this "live")


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03 Apr 2014   #42
rmike1991

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
I'm almost ready to suggest I come over in person, to work through this "live")
Dear dsperber, I REALLY appreciate everything you were trying to do for me here. I know you couldn't believe your eyes when watching my "XP videos" but still didn't leave me on my own and even offered "live" support THANK YOU!
After I finished writing my last post saying that
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by rmike1991 View Post
couple more versions of drivers and they will hopefully add 1600X200 and itís going to be as good as XP driver in 2009
I was thinking it through and it just hit me. If AMD or Microsoft couldn't give me what I want, I have to search for it somewhere else. Google-> how to create custom resolution in windows 7-> now it's finally solved. Some people think I'm stupid, but I'm stubborn and it's a little different. I new if it could work in XP it should work in 7 one way or another. So here is what I did:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-ynnTUTi00

You can even watch it in 1440P
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03 Apr 2014   #43
dsperber

Windows 7 Pro x64 (1), Win7 Pro X64 (2)
 
 

Serious congratulations!!

As I like to say to myself when I finally solve seemingly and previously insurmountable problems due to similar sticktoit-iveness because I just don't want to admit defeat and just won't give up, NO MATCH FOR THE KID!!

Terrific! Great work.

Apparently it really was a Win7 driver problem all along, being different from the WinXP driver, and the needed (but missing from AMD) additional resolution of 1600x1200 being supported in clone mode on the TV screen. Really shouldn't have been missing clearly, and it shouldn't have taken someone else's custom software product to provide a "custom resolution" to deliver what was previously available as standard with WinXP.

Just a few questions...

(1) I assume your video is of the HDTV, not of the CRT. Right? It shows the change from 1440x900 to 1600x1200 when you select that resolution, increasing the "height" of the Windows desktop and adding the additional blank real estate at the bottom of the screen.

Does the CRT look the same way... originally at 1440x900 (and filled vertically with with 12 rows of desktop shortcut icons down the left edge), and then also "growing" vertically to 1600x1200 with the same additional blank real estate at the bottom of the screen?

Again, your CRT original desktop area (when truly 1600x1200, in "extend" mode) had 15 rows of desktop shortcut icons. And I mentioned that when going to "duplicate/clone" Windows which had then originally forced 1440x900 would have also forced a rearrangement of the desktop icons given the change in desktop resolution. So what we're seeing here as the starting point before using that custom resolution utility to select 1600x1200 must obviously be the 1440x900 desktop, and I'm just asking if it looks identical on the primary CRT as well.

(2) You've got the HDTV obviously not doing any ZOOM, so there are black bars on the left and right as I would expect as the centered 1600x1200 is less wide than the 1920 width of the screen. I'm just still quite amazed that the 1200 pixel vertical height can actually be "vertically compressed" to display in the 1080pixel native height of the screen... but obviously that's what's happening.

With this 1600x1200 resolution, what are the available ZOOM mode choices that the TV presents you??

(3) Your video did not show what Catalyst Control Center displays after going to "clone/duplicate" and selecting the custom 1600x1200 resolution.

So what is presented by CCC for each of the two monitors, and specifically in the "scale image to fill panel" item for each monitors... is it CHECKED or UN-CHECKED??

(4) In the current non-ZOOM state of the HDTV and with 1600x1200 custom resolution in effect for "clone/duplicate", with the black bars on left and right, what does your original video/movie cartoon now finally look like when played on Win7? I'd like to see both CRT and HDTV, like with your original video in XP.

Or, if you do ZOOM the HDTV (to eliminate the black bars?), what is the ZOOM setting you select? And then does the video now display EXACTLY the same in Win7 as it used to in WinXP?

(5) By the way, what software are you using to capture your desktop animations and make those videos?


Anyway, EXCELLENT WORK!!! You have emerged victorious!
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06 Apr 2014   #44
rmike1991

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Dsperber, sorry it took so long for me to respond. Taking care of business..

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
resolution of 1600x1200 .. Really shouldn't have been missing clearly, and it shouldn't have taken someone else's custom software product to provide a "custom resolution" to deliver what was previously available as standard with WinXP.
EXACTLY!

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
(1) I assume your video is of the HDTV, not of the CRT. Right?
No. Everything was captured on my desktop. I donít know why you call it CRT. Itís an LCD monitor. (Or this is just the way you call all monitors?) My TV wasnít even on when I did it.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
I'm just asking if it looks identical on the primary CRT as well.
It does. Basically now everything works like it was on WinXP

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
(2) With this 1600x1200 resolution, what are the available ZOOM mode choices that the TV presents you??
Just like in this video -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKr7mTzRPnE. Zoom-Panoramic-Normal-Wide. Again. Just like it was on WinXP. Since I was able to add ďcustomĒ 1600X1200 resolution it now shows ďNormalĒ too.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
(3) Your video did not show what Catalyst Control Center displays after going to "clone/duplicate" and selecting the custom 1600x1200 resolution.

So what is presented by CCC for each of the two monitors, and specifically in the "scale image to fill panel" item for each monitors... is it CHECKED or UN-CHECKED??
It is checked. Could not be any other way (would not fit vertically ). Here is the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_mv...ature=youtu.be

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
(4) In the current non-ZOOM state of the HDTV and with 1600x1200 custom resolution in effect for "clone/duplicate", with the black bars on left and right, what does your original video/movie cartoon now finally look like when played on Win7? I'd like to see both CRT and HDTV, like with your original video in XP.

Or, if you do ZOOM the HDTV (to eliminate the black bars?), what is the ZOOM setting you select? And then does the video now display EXACTLY the same in Win7 as it used to in WinXP?
I can make another video if you like, but there is no point. ďthe video now displays EXACTLY the same in Win7 as it used to in WinXPĒ ©
This is why I started this thread. I wanted Win7 to do EXACTLY the same as it was in XP. And the only thing I was missing to accomplish that is 1600X1200 resolution.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
(5) By the way, what software are you using to capture your desktop animations and make those videos?
I use HyperCam I looked through the whole bunch of programs like that and chose this one since itís very easy to use.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dsperber View Post
EXCELLENT WORK!!! You have emerged victorious!
THANK YOU!!! Itís not me though. I just believe in a hammer and a chisel Itís that software developer. He deserves all the applause and flowers.
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29 May 2015   #45
adamkade

windows 7 home
 
 
Scratches head

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by AddRAM View Post
Why do you want to duplicate the displays ?

What`s the benefit of duplicating them ?

I would just extend your main display.
I am having the same problem. I like to show my children how to use various things on microsoft office on my 19 inch monitor and would like it to be duplicated on the 42 inch t.v. A previous version of driver (catalyst) allowed me to do just that. I needed reinstall windows, so did that, but the latest driver/software is giving me problems. It is very useful to duplicate displays as it is a useful tool for teaching people (or children) how to use a particular program. If there is just person looking over my shoulder then that is okay, but if you want to teach a group of people how to do something then duplication would be a great tool to do just that. Also, surely duplicating desktop on larger desktops has been developed for just such a purpose.

Although the gentleman didn't (perhaps) explain in great detail what he was trying to do, I got the gist of what he wanted to do (and I am not very tech savvy). It wasn't difficult for me to traverse the gap of communication and understanding, and if I can, then I suspect people who understand windows so much better than I would be able to do so also.

As it was so long ago, since I adjusted the resolution on the television now I cannot remember how it was done. Is it the driver, or am I missing something simple?
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29 May 2015   #46
GokAy

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

You can set screen resolution in Display settings (Control Panel, or right click empty desktop-Screen resolution).

Is the TV properly recognized? You should see it in the same Display screen above.

Try Win+P shortcut and see if it will work.
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02 Jun 2015   #47
adamkade

windows 7 home
 
 

thank you for the reply, that is a neat thing that you showed me. The television screen is now fine, but for some reason, on my monitor, the bar is raised by about 7 inches. Actually, it only happens when I try to duplicate the screens. It is okay on extended desktop. Thanks.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
02 Jun 2015   #48
GokAy

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

Like this?

Trying to clone displays-taskbar-enlarged.jpg

If so, right click Task Bar - Lock the Taskbar (uncheck), from its top click and drag all the way down, lock it again


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