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Windows 7: SSD Real Slow

17 Nov 2011   #11
carwiz

Windows 7 Pro-x64
 
 

That's interesting. I wonder how they determined TRIM was even executed? It's not an operation the drive will perform immediately on request. And the drive doesn't return an Ack. And how was it determined that GC even ran? My drive performs better now than it did when new. Why would I contribute that to GC or TRIM?


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17 Nov 2011   #12
Corazon

Windows 7 Professional SP1 32-bit
 
 

Hmm.

I feel more and more validated in my decision to avoid Sandforce in my first-ever SSD (an OCZ Vertex Plus).

Of course, it's only a few weeks old so I don't qualify for making useful comments here just yet.
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17 Nov 2011   #13
smarteyeball

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by carwiz View Post
That's interesting. I wonder how they determined TRIM was even executed?
By disabling it via the cmd prompt

Quote:
fsutil behavior set disabledeletenotify 1

Also in the mix were SSD in Raid where trim isn't/wasn't available. Some did the log off/idle thing - others didn't.

To be honest, iirc, the testing methodology was a little... imprecise. But it was enough to get an idea that GC does something.




Quote:
My drive performs better now than it did when new. Why would I contribute that to GC or TRIM?
Fornication for me if I had the knowledge


Personally I log off every now and then if I remember to do it. Most of the time I don't and I haven't noticed any perceptible slowdowns.


Whatever the combo or individual feature - one or both seem to work for the most of us.



*

In the OP's case, a last resort would be to clone the drive, secure-erase it and re-add the image. If it's still playing silly buggers, it might be on it's way out.



However one question I haven't seen asked is were any Windows Updates, new software, Drivers, new hardware etc installed in the days prior to it's aberrant behaviour?

If yes, it may be nothing to do with the drive at all.
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17 Nov 2011   #14
carwiz

Windows 7 Pro-x64
 
 

LOL... The bandwagon must be getting pretty large by now. That instruction doesn't tell you if the drive executed TRIM. That was my question. Not whether the drive was capable of it. There is NO current method to determine if it has run or not. Windows sends TRIM commands to the disk but the disk doesn't respond to the command right away, if ever. From what I understand, the drive may never run the TRIM unless it's running short on space. And that makes sense to me; Otherwise, the drive would be busy running TRIM all the time. Every time you edit a picture and save, open a Word file, watch U-got-Tubed, install a program or execute nearly any program, a temp file might be opened then deleted.

But, I'm willing to revise my point of view should evidence be presented. Like the man-made warming controversy, a small consensus doesn't make it fact.

Hey, if sitting idle after log-on or log-off (or whatever it is) makes you feel better then by all means do it.

I just meant that I think it's more productive for Garbage Collection to run while there is NO activity on the drive--Like at BIOS idle when drive firmware can have full and unshared access to the disk. Any time Windows is running, it's hitting the disk around 20+ times a second. Even at log-xx time.
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17 Nov 2011   #15
gzt7d8

Windows 7 Professional (64bit)
 
 

Good feedback, but I'm feeling a breeze, but that's ok, I'll catch up with you soon.

One comment about power interruptions - yes, that's because I've been getting freeze/lockups call it what you want but I have to force it to power down and then up again.

Issues with recent updates - I tried to go do a system restore back by 1 week...but it failed. I could go in an uninstall those changes but I think it was one 1 that I recall. Weird thing about the freeze/lockups, can't find anything inthe event viewer other than an interrupted session. Mini dumps on the drive are from last year...no help there.

So, trying the idle again but at the login screen. Turned off sleep in the Power Mgmt so I get a full time. I've done that before so it worries me that the drive is degrading...sooner than I expected....1 year (?). I may be asking for direction how to properly clean the drive and reinstall..hate having to reinstall all the progs, maybe you can help there too with mirror/cloning the drive.

Continued thanks for your comments.
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17 Nov 2011   #16
essenbe

Windows 7 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 Pro X64/Linux Mint
 
 

have you tried running sfc /scannow to see if there are corrupted system files?

@carwiz. I was only saying what OCZ says works and has worked for several people on this forum. But, if trim is done by windows 7, then it hast to be loaded for the garbage collection to work. Supposedly, garbage collection is a part of trim to get what trim missed. It seems to be only on sandforce controllers. Intel says 'idle time garbage collection' does not work for their drives and I have never seen it mentioned on Crucial forums.
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17 Nov 2011   #17
smarteyeball

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by carwiz View Post
LOL... The bandwagon must be getting pretty large by now. That instruction doesn't tell you if the drive executed TRIM. That was my question.
I'm not arguing the toss here mate. I was merely mentioning some thread on some forum I stumbled across a while ago. I don't think I stated anywhere above emphatically that I was offering concrete evidence.



Quote:
But, I'm willing to revise my point of view should evidence be presented.
Google/Bing is right there



Quote:
Like the man-made warming controversy, a small consensus doesn't make it fact.
Never said it did. The fact that some SSD manufacturers themselves withhold important information about the Sandforce controllers at Sandforces behest (looking at you OCZ) has helped perpetuate a mix of both myths and facts.

I merely offered what I've found regarding the current 'general' (not small, but general) consensus. This was done in good faith. If it turns out I; and many, many others are wrong - then I shall be suitably chagrined in my part of myth perpetuation.


Quote:
I just meant that I think it's more productive for Garbage Collection to run while there is NO activity on the drive--Like at BIOS idle when drive firmware can have full and unshared access to the disk. Any time Windows is running, it's hitting the disk around 20+ times a second. Even at log-xx time.
I agree with you. However do you recall?

Quote:
The drive may not be 'fully' idle at log off, but it's idle 'enough' for GC to do it's thing.
The main reason that the log off method is recommend is because it's the best 'compromise' for the 'average' user.

The majority of SSD users are Windows based who do not, nor will not; sit at a BIOS screen. A lot 'average' users don't even know what a bloody BIOS is.

So in the absence of ideal and optimal performance for GC , the next 'best' thing is recommended. In this case: logging off.


As much as I don't mind going off-topic, this thread has been hijacked enough as the OP's issue is still not fixed.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by gzt7d8 View Post
I may be asking for direction how to properly clean the drive and reinstall..hate having to reinstall all the progs, maybe you can help there too with mirror/cloning the drive.

Continued thanks for your comments.

Here's just one of a few tutorials about cloning your drive. Just some background info to give you a better idea should you decide to go that route. There's a few clone/backup options available.

One caveat about cloning though - if your issue is actually software based (something hinky with your current install) then obviously cloning will also 'clone' the issue. But hopefully a full re-install can be avoided.
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17 Nov 2011   #18
gzt7d8

Windows 7 Professional (64bit)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by essenbe View Post
have you tried running sfc /scannow to see if there are corrupted system files?

@carwiz. I was only saying what OCZ says works and has worked for several people on this forum. But, if trim is done by windows 7, then it hast to be loaded for the garbage collection to work. Supposedly, garbage collection is a part of trim to get what trim missed. It seems to be only on sandforce controllers. Intel says 'idle time garbage collection' does not work for their drives and I have never seen it mentioned on Crucial forums.
Yes I ran that scan that you suggested and found there were no problems found.

So attached is a screen shot on the Trim question, to me it sounds like it is running...do you agree?

Lastly, put the system to the Login screen for over 2 hours tonight, no change.

Thanks for your attention!


Attached Images
SSD Real Slow-capture.jpg 
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17 Nov 2011   #19
Britton30
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Ultimate X64 SP1
 
 

You could try, if you haven't, leave the machine on for several hours while you sleep or are at work. Idle with no programs running.
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17 Nov 2011   #20
gzt7d8

Windows 7 Professional (64bit)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Britton30 View Post
You could try, if you haven't, leave the machine on for several hours while you sleep or are at work. Idle with no programs running.
Ok, will try that tonight.

-----------------------
Update:
Let the machine idle at login screen for about 8 hours. When I came back it was froze up, had to cycle the power.

Looks like I will have to start over again.

Now my question, what can I do to prevent this? It's only been a year since I installed the drive,
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