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Windows 7: Hard disk recommendations (2TB) SATA III

25 Jun 2012   #11
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

If you are planning a striped array you could span the volume across pairs or even more then two drives. The initial install of 7 here on this case was to the first of the pair of S3 drives while the two S2 models were unplugged to avoid being seen as Disk 0. That was the first drawback of not seeing the boot information placed on the wrong drive.

You have to see which drive there will be seen first once you move the 7 host drive around for sure and likely need to unplug the drive plugged in where that is now before any repair or clean install if needed at some point.

An array however is generally a separate from OS drive type of set up where you go into the bios to select which drives listed by model series will be included in it. Each bios version has it's own options to go over preferably outlined in the manual for the board itself. Without any changes being made you should look them over ahead of time to get familiar with what the finish would be like.

The best MS reference for this however is seen at Windows and GPT FAQ That takes you through the general list of questions as it explains a good number of things.

For which commands to use at the command line you can always go back to MS for the DiskPart commands and definitions page. DiskPart Command-Line Options I toyed a little with an array on the last build while 7 was still in beta and somewhat with the RC but dumped the idea wanting the extra drives for testing varions things.

With the second OS drive now split up for system mages and another OS entirely I found the new partition table option there was a one clck deal when having used GParted for this back in 2009. Once I broke the array later however that was where the fun began of wiping each drive separately while the other was unplugged! If I simply reformatted on while the other was unplugged it would only resync back again as part of the array.

The command you would be using for spanning two drives rather then seein a Raid 5 set up would be "create volume stripe". This will also see a dynamic not basic volume created across the drives used! I thought I would let you know about that.


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25 Jun 2012   #12
smarteyeball

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by TanyaC View Post

I'm still fuzzy on GPT. It seems I set the BIOS to raid, boot, create the raid array, boot from windows dvd and run diskpart. Convert the array to gpt with "convert GPT" command, and then create the partitions..
Will that be for the OS drive or simply the storage drives?

If it's just the storage drives in RAID you can simply use disk management inside Windows to initialize/set up the GPT partitions. If not, disregard.


Quote:
And since I have to put the raid array on the sata 2 ports, I'm wondering whether I should create a raid array at all, or whether I should even bother upgrading the drives at all... Right now, I click open on a file in VLC from another computer for example, and have to wait 30 seconds for the open dialog to appear.. That may be simply because of the power plan, or the default drive cycle behaviour... <sigh>
If they are Green drives, and the power plan is default, the delay is indeed them 'turning on/waking up'.

You'll still have the access delay even if you RAID them. The only way around that delay is to not them sleep. But you'd appreciate the RAID when transferring files etc.
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25 Jun 2012   #13
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

That would one idea here as well since the pair of Sata III drives are now free from one being used for system images in order to span a single volume across both. I was considering adding in another Sata II 2.5tb or 3tb Black edition for storing system images and VHDs along for the ride as well.

The Green Power drive presently in the usb enclosure was one moved over from the last case where the second of that pair of 1tb drives is being used on a totally different build as the main storage drive. That was a new 7 to upgrade a family member out of an old XP Pro build.

The one in the enclosure was simply put to use backing up a pair of laptops lately and otherwise will no longer be used for backing this one. The first 500gb GP drive was simply one I pulled out of the usb casing it came to install internally and found to be no OS worthy drive for anything!

The 1tb GPs were on sale when those two were bought but that model series works out best for laptops as far as usb storage or with usb/eSata when not able to add a larger drive internally. If you are simply out for performance with any storage then you go with a performance series drive. That plus wanting to try out Sata III to compare was why I went with the BE over any GP drives.
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25 Jun 2012   #14
TanyaC

Linux Mint 17 Cinnamon | Win 7 Ult x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by smarteyeball View Post
Will that be for the OS drive or simply the storage drives?
Storage drives. I will keep my existing WD20EARX boot drive.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by smarteyeball View Post
If it's just the storage drives in RAID you can simply use disk management inside Windows to initialize/set up the GPT partitions. If not, disregard.
That makes life simpler.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by smarteyeball View Post
You'll still have the access delay even if you RAID them. The only way around that delay is to not them sleep. But you'd appreciate the RAID when transferring files etc.
Sadly, that defeats the purpose of the exercise, which is either to reduce or maintain current power consumption.

The reason for the upgrades in the first place is to eliminate the delays. Getting extra storage out of the exercise is a bonus. The drives are typically used for read access, it's only when I add a new media file that they are written to, so read performance is more important than write performance.

I'm now considering whether I should stick with what I've got and spend the few (cough) "spare" dollars on something else...

One interesting thing to note.. When all my drives were sata 2 the delays were nowhere near as long. Go figure.
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25 Jun 2012   #15
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

I didn't see any big gain with the two Sata III drives in and using that bus for either OS or data storage. For fast read times as well as write times you wouldn't go with any energy saving line up to start with. Some used to make up arrays with a pair of WD Raptors to speed up access time. You pay through the nose for them however!
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25 Jun 2012   #16
smarteyeball

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by TanyaC View Post

Sadly, that defeats the purpose of the exercise, which is either to reduce or maintain current power consumption.
Unfortunately it does.


Quote:
One interesting thing to note.. When all my drives were sata 2 the delays were nowhere near as long. Go figure.
That could be either the controller, or the drives firmware. Hard to say really.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by TanyaC View Post

I'm now considering whether I should stick with what I've got and spend the few (cough) "spare" dollars on something else...
A new ISP?

But extra space is always nice - how about an external drive?



Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
I didn't see any big gain with the two Sata III drives in and using that bus for either OS or data storage.
For mechanical HDD's, Sata III is rather pointless since HDD's don't even saturate the full bandwidth of Sata II, let alone III. But that's what new drives are being sold as.
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25 Jun 2012   #17
Night Hawk

W7 Ultimate x64/W10 Pro x64 dual boot main build-remote pc W10 Pro x64 Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64
 
 

That's where it's at! I hear people say they are "not seeing the full speed of the bus" whatever bus that is and have to explain you only see the full speed of any bus under ideal peak circumstances. The term maximum doesn't apply to every day usage.

As far as drives are concerned since I keep the power plan set for never turning drives off I went for the better model series wanting to try OSing the S3 drives first to see if and what performance value that would offer overall in the long term. In the long term reality check it turned out staying with the Sata IIs for OS and S3 drives on the secondary bus there being dedicated for storage.

As for external use the GPs work there since the enclosure will see slower access and transfer times by way of usb anyways over eSata. The laptops I backup with that however lack eSata as well as the brand of enclosure not seeing a fan cooled model with eSata to begin with ruling that option out.

For a 2tb or larger drive I frowned on any energy saver wanting to see one added in that would be from the same model series I run either II or III while i wasn't looking to break up the pair of S3 drives and then later have a need to match the new drive with a second. I simply rearranged the OS dept. a little and made the room available!
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26 Jun 2012   #18
vaidas3

Windows 7 pro 64bit. (SP1)
 
 

on spinners i dont see the point in needing sata3 .. sata2 is just fine.. exept maybe short burst from cache... HDD can not output/input so much data so i doubt sata2 cap will be reached.

maybe sata3 offers some other benefits?
you have to make compromise if you buy seagate.. and do backups (what you should do with any important data whatever HDD youre using) one year warranty is not so bad I believe that hdd can work longer thant this.
HDD usually fail in the beginning months or late after 3 or so years.
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26 Jun 2012   #19
Zepher

Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit
 
 

I am fond of the Samsung F4 drives. They are great for media storage and are surprisingly fast.
I've got 3 or 4 of them in my machine,
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26 Jun 2012   #20
TanyaC

Linux Mint 17 Cinnamon | Win 7 Ult x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by vaidas3 View Post
on spinners i dont see the point in needing sata3 .. sata2 is just fine.. exept maybe short burst from cache... HDD can not output/input so much data so i doubt sata2 cap will be reached.
The discussion is not really about whether to buy SATA 2 or SATA 3. For the most part, sata 2 drives are not available. Or if they are, they are priced higher than the sata 3 drives. It's about which sata 3 drive to buy.

As far as motherboards go, sata 3 ports are compatible with sata 2 drives, so i find it strange why motherboard manufacturers don't just put all sata 3 ports on the boards.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by vaidas3 View Post
maybe sata3 offers some other benefits?
Nope, sata 3 is mostly just marketing hype.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by vaidas3 View Post
one year warranty is not so bad I believe that hdd can work longer thant this.
HDD usually fail in the beginning months or late after 3 or so years.
True. Most drives I installed have lasted 3 years. I typically replace drives at least every three years, but that is mostly due to increasing capacity needs.

And finally I've made a decision - I'm going to get a ST3000DM001 - Just one - and replace one WD15EADS drive. A 1.5TB capacity increase, and at a cost of only 3 extra watts. I've gone through all my data and identified what really needs the performance, and I can fit that on a 3TB drive. This means it will add less than $8 per year to my power bill.
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 Hard disk recommendations (2TB) SATA III




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