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Windows 7: Apostrophe Key has massive delay on EN-UK Keyboard

05 Jan 2013   #11
inaniloquent

Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Kari View Post
Completely normal Windows behavior:
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by inaniloquent View Post
EN-US keyboard has similar problem it seems: In FF it only shows up the apostrophe if I press it twice or if I type letters immediately after typing an apostrophe. Annoying.
You need to understand that EN-US and EN-US International are two different keyboard layouts; what you describe is exactly how EN-US International should work and is designed to work.

This post has a bit more about differences between EN-US and EN-US International keyboard layouts: Issue with keyboard input

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by inaniloquent View Post
In FF it only shows up the apostrophe if I press it twice or if I type letters immediately after typing an apostrophe. Annoying. However, it doesn't seem to show up at all on the rest of my PC software (notepad, word, explorer etc)...
The chosen input language and keyboard layout can be set independently for each application and program.

What you describe is typical when, although only one input language (English US), there are more than one keyboard layouts enabled and separately set to be used on different applications. In this case it is quite obvious the EN-US International is set to be used with Firefox, whereas other apps use system default EN-US.

An example:

User has selected only one input language to be used, English (US). Within this input language both EN-US and EN-US International keyboard layouts are selected:

Attachment 248521

The input language in this case is English, with two different keyboard layouts, default US and alternative US International:

Attachment 248522

By default the fast keyboard layout switch is ALT + SHIFT.

User opens Firefox and either using above mentioned keyboard shortcut or keyboard / language icon on notification area changes the keyboard layout to US International. From now on every time Firefox is used it uses this layout instead of default US layout. Notice that selecting other than default keyboard layout only affects the application which is currently active. When Firefox is active and keyboard layout is changed, the layout only changes on Firefox.

When user then uses other apps, Word, Notepad and so on, they are still using the default US keyboard layout as long as the layout is not changed to US International for that application.

Let's say user in this example jumps between Firefox and Word. Every time Word is made active, keyboard layout is automatically switched to (default) US, but as soon as user clicks Firefox window to make it active the system automatically switches to US International layout for it is the keyboard layout selected for Firefox. And vice versa; user clicks Word to make it active, layout is again automatically switched to (default) US.

Tutorials:
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by inaniloquent View Post
On the EN-UK (using now) keyboard, pressing space does nothing.
The delay is like.. maybe 2 seconds? But because I have to hold it down to get them to show up, it means that a bunch of them come out like this ''''''' because I can`t time when to let go of the key...
This is a very typical hardware issue, common especially with wireless keyboards. It is normally caused by bad reception, the USB receiver for instance does not pick the keyboard signal as it should causing delays.

One known reason with especially Logitech's wireless keyboards is the frequency the USB receiver uses, it being too close to some other wireless frequencies. In some cases it helps to change wireless routers frequency.

Kari
A lot of this wasn`t relevant: I want my UK keyboard to work. I do not want to use the US one if I don`t have to. How does this help me fix this one key that refuses to work?

Also, as I have said possibly twice before: it is NOT a hardware issue. Please read my previous posts again if you still don`t believe me...


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05 Jan 2013   #12
Kari

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

 

How is it irrelevant to tell you why Firefox shows up the apostrophe only after another key is pressed? Check you Input Language settings, the EN-US International keyboard layout is the only one from EN-UK & EN-US keyboard layouts that does that.

It is absolutely sure that if you have installed EN-UK keyboard layout from Region and Language settings and are using it, that wont happen. This, having to press a key after apostrophe to get a letter with said apostrophe, is how EN-US International layout works, being the only EN-UK or EN-US layout that behaves so.

Keyboard settings in Windows is one of those Windows elements that really works. En-UK keyboard layout does not act like you said.

I was not saying you must have a hardware issue. I gave you one very common explanation for the delay such as what you described.

With utmost sincerity I want to apologize you for using my free time in trying to help you. Rest assured it will never happen again.

Kari, Windows Langue (Display and Input) expert.
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06 Jan 2013   #13
inaniloquent

Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit
 
 

I don`t really get why you`re so mad, or what you`re saying..but okay.
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06 Jan 2013   #14
Kari

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

 

I am not mad. I am just apologizing for wasting my time in my effort to help you.

I will repeat this one more time: What you described (apostrophes only typed after another key is pressed) is because of, and can only be because of that Firefox is set to use EN-US International keyboard layout, no other EN-US or EN-UK keyboard layout does this. That is for 100% sure the reason for this kind of behavior in Firefox or any other application.

I your opinion this was irrelevant. I have some difficulties to understand this: You have issues you do not understand. I tell you about the only possible reason for one of your issues (FF & apostrophes), and explain some typical reasons why another issue of yours might occur (delayed typing). You tell me my answer was not relevant.

So be it.

Kari


Kari
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10 Feb 2013   #15
zomb

Win 7 x64 Ultimate
 
 
Same

Hi all,

Chiming in here to say I am also having the same problem.

On my EN-UK keyboard, I am unable to type an apostrophe without holding it down for about 2 seconds.

The problem is not hardware based, as I have tried another keyboard.

Changing the keyboard layout to EN-US allows me to use the apostrophe key. However, this is not an acceptable work-around, as the rest of the keyboard is also different (@ sign, # etc).

Kari - Your post was not relevant given the information that had been provided in previous posts by inaniloquent.

Does anyone else have any ideas, inaniloquent, did you manage to sort this out?

This has only started happening since I reinstalled windows 7 with a new motherboard.
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10 Feb 2013   #16
zomb

Win 7 x64 Ultimate
 
 

For anyone who is looking at this problem, I have managed to fix it.

Using a 'custom' layout keyboard made with the Keyboard Layout Creator (v1.4).

You can download the installer for the keyboard layout & source from my website here: Windows 7 x64 en-UK Keyboard Apostrophe Fix
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10 Feb 2013   #17
Kari

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by zomb View Post
Kari - Your post was not relevant given the information that had been provided in previous posts by inaniloquent.

Does anyone else have any ideas, inaniloquent, did you manage to sort this out?

This has only started happening since I reinstalled windows 7 with a new motherboard.
The information I gave was and is relevant. EN-UK keyboard layout does not work like that, that's a fact.

Most common reason why this happens, and why it so often happens after reinstall is that user accidentally uses US language and input settings when installing simply by clicking Next or hitting Enter on first screen when install is launched. This screenshot from a typical Windows 7 install I just made to a virtual machine an hour ago, install media bought in Europe still defaulting to US:

Apostrophe Key has massive delay on EN-UK Keyboard-win7_install_1.png

Add the fact that Windows not only allows keyboard layout set independently on each application but also remembers it, and the issues begin. User goes to language settings and switches to EN-UK but forgets to remove the underlying EN-US. When an application is now used which was already used at least once before setting a new default input language, the old setting remains active for that application.

I repeat: EN-UK keyboard layout does not behave like that, it does not wait another key to be pressed after an apostrophe key is pressed. It is always a user fault or a fault in the system which can be fixed by deleting / disabling wrong keyboard layouts, setting applications to use correct ones and setting correct default layout.

Kari


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10 Feb 2013   #18
zomb

Win 7 x64 Ultimate
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Kari View Post
EN-UK keyboard layout does not work like that, that's a fact.
I don't care what you think is a fact, I'm not here to argue with you.

You can be a keyboard warrior all you like. The only fact is, I only had the EN-UK keyboard installed, all other types of keyboard were not installed at install time.

I repeat: The only keyboard layout I had installed was the EN-UK one.

I understand what you're saying about having multiple layouts installed, yes I have witnessed that behaviour. But when I experienced the problem to begin with I only had one layout installed.

End of the day, your reply didn't help. And you got all up-tight about it because you were wrong.

I repeat: I'm not here to argue.
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10 Feb 2013   #19
Slartybart

x64 (6.3.9600) Win8.1 Pro & soon dual boot x64 (6.1.7601) Win7_SP1 HomePrem
 
 

Shades of Monty Python
"I'm here for an argument"
"No you're not"
"Yes, I AM"
"NO, you're not"
This isn't an argument"
"Yes, it is"
"No, it's not. It is merely a contradiction of Terms"



Anyway, there might be some confusion because there is a lack of hard information needed to help find a solution. Kari provided what he knows - good info.

It would help if the language diaglogs were shown so members could actually see how the keyboard and languge selections correspond. You'd be surprised how many things are fixed once members can see what you see. Many times there's a minor chnage that is missed, even by experienced people (I'm guilty)

I'm curious to know what the default keyboard is set to (UK or JP) and if the language bar is being used to switch between the two settings. I'm also curious to see if there are additional languages defined for this system. There is one more itme, I by chance noticed when grabbing my screen shots. The hotkey combination for switching text input.

See attached and please post yours:


Attached Images
Apostrophe Key has massive delay on EN-UK Keyboard-lang-kbfmts.png Apostrophe Key has massive delay on EN-UK Keyboard-lang-kbloc.png Apostrophe Key has massive delay on EN-UK Keyboard-lang-kb.png Apostrophe Key has massive delay on EN-UK Keyboard-lang-inpt.png Apostrophe Key has massive delay on EN-UK Keyboard-lang-chgkey.png 
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23 Feb 2013   #20
Slartybart

x64 (6.3.9600) Win8.1 Pro & soon dual boot x64 (6.1.7601) Win7_SP1 HomePrem
 
 

Keyboard layout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by wiki
United Kingdom extended
Windows XP SP2 and later also offer a "United Kingdom Extended" keyboard layout which allows input on a standard physical UK keyboard for many languages (including Welsh) without changing any of the allocations of frequently used keys (the rarely used grave accent key becomes a dead key). In particular, the apostrophe, double-quote, tilde and caret keys are not changed into dead keys modifying the character generated by the next key pressed, as used by the US International layout. Instead, the additional characters are obtained using the AltGr key. The extended keyboard is software installed from the Windows control panel, and the extended characters are not normally engraved on keyboards.



The layout provides support for adding diacritics to the vowels a, e, i, o, u, w and y (the last two being used in Welsh) as well as capitals:
  • The grave accent key ` (left of 1) becomes a dead key which adds a grave accent to a subsequent vowel, generating , , etc. Pressing the key followed by a character which does not take a grave accent behaves as on a standard keyboard; grave followed by spacebar generates a grave accent character.
  • Vowels with acute accents are generated either by pressing AltGr and the relevant character key simultaneously, or AltGr and apostrophe ' (acting as a dead key combination) followed by the character. Some programs use the combination of AltGr and a letter for other functions, in which case the AltGr+' method must be used to generate acute accents.
  • AltGr+6 acts as a dead key combination to add a circumflex to a subsequent vowel (, , etc.). Use of the shifted 6 key is intended to be mnemonic as the key is marked with the caret (^), which looks like a circumflex.
  • AltGr+2 acts as a dead key combination to add a diaeresis/umlaut to a subsequent vowel (, , etc.). Use of the shifted 2 key is intended to be mnemonic as on UK keyboards the key is marked with the double quote ("), which looks a similar to a diaeresis.
  • AltGr+# (hash) acts as a dead key combination to add a tilde (~) to a subsequent A/a, N/n or O/o (, , etc.), as used in Spanish and Portuguese. This is mnemonic again; the # key on a UK keyboard is marked with the tilde character (~).
  • With Windows versions newer than Windows XP SP2, AltGr+C generates lower-case c with cedilla (), and AltGr+⇧ Shift+C generates the capital letter ().
The UK extended layout is almost entirely transparent to users familiar with the UK layout; a machine with the extended layout will behave exactly as with the standard UK except for the rarely used grave accent key. This makes this layout suitable for a machine for shared or public use by a user population in which some, but not all, are aware of the extended functionality.
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