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Windows 7: Problem with eSATA powered USB

20 Jan 2013   #11
essenbe
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 X64
 
 

This is an oversimplification. But, it's like USB and eSATA speak different languages. sata can talk to sata, but USB needs an interpreter to speak to sata. Even if you get a USB to esata converter cable, the cable is still speaking USB and has to be interpreted to sata, thus slowing down the process. That is a very oversimplified explanation. I know I am going to be jumped on by others here, but is probably the best way I know to explain why you can't get USB 3.0 speeds from an esata port. I hope that helps you understand it a little better.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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20 Jan 2013   #12
DocBrown

Win7 Enterprise, Win7 x86 (Ult 7600), Win7 x64 Ult 7600, TechNet RTM on AMD x64 (2.8Ghz)
 
 

What is the make & model of this 3tb ext HD ?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Jan 2013   #13
essenbe
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 X64
 
 

All computers run different. This is the speeds you will typically see with each type of connection. Sometimes faster sometimes slower, but typical. Doc showed up so I had to post a snip.

-esata-usb-3-2.png


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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20 Jan 2013   #14
DocBrown

Win7 Enterprise, Win7 x86 (Ult 7600), Win7 x64 Ult 7600, TechNet RTM on AMD x64 (2.8Ghz)
 
 

Thanks Steve, How about snips of the speeds of two types of internal SATA connections ?


If I really wanted to see a HD with the fastest speed that he is looking for, I would just connect the 3tb HD with extra long Data & power cables out the back or the side of the computer. See if that speed met with my expectations. If so then I would work on a cosmetically acceptable installation / enclousure.



Edit: That is providing you have some internal unsed SATA ports available to connect long cables to for testing.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Jan 2013   #15
B420

multiple computers and different OS'
 
 

my fault, should have done research on hardware. no offence essenbe but looks like you haven't done research on hardware either.

simplest explanation WHY this would never work:
eSATA/USB hybrid port or so called Power eSATA is 2 in 1, but it does not mean they use same cables/connections.
i examined HD image of eSATA/USB hybrid port and i noticed that in one side, it has connectors for eSATA and on other side USB2.
so when i plugged my USB3 device in there, it was simply connected to normal USB2 connectors, not to eSATA, so it is not matter of software and "language" but simple hardware problem.

USB3 cable and eSATA port are not even connected. after i examined that picture i thought .. wtf am i stupid that i never even looked how eSATA looks like?

anyway, adapter would work.
i would just need Mini USB3 male to eSATA .. and i would be set, but it doesn't seem to exist in whole world.
im sure there is a reason for this, but i don't realize it. its possible to make adapter for anything.


i think im going to get PCI USB2 high-speed adapter instead, they say it is 480mbps which is 60mb/s. right now im only getting 40mb/s so hopefully it will fix the issue. some of my internal HDDs are only around 60mb/s, so it should be more than enought for fraps recordings @ 30fps


EDIT:
unfortunetly my biggest problem is lack of ports. only 1 internal SATA and that's reserved for SSD.
nothing else is free, both PCI-E are taken and so is IDE. only ones left are PCI
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Jan 2013   #16
essenbe
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 X64
 
 

If he has internal ports, the cable I linked to would do that, or they would connect from the back port to an internal mounted drive, With that cable and a power source he could do it either way. But, aren't most 3TB drives 5400 RPM's? If they are he will never get top speed. But for a backup or a storage drive, it would be fine, I imagine. I was expecting a hard time about my anology.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Jan 2013   #17
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

essenbe I like your anology. Seems to me when one gets done buying all the adapters and cables and gadgets you could just install another motherboard to suit ones needs.
To me its simple. If you computer has max speed o xxx you are not going to get speeds of xxxxxxx out of it.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Jan 2013   #18
essenbe
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 X64
 
 

Well, for the sake of argument, there is no mechanical hard drive capable of sata II speeds of 3Gb/s But USB 3.0 is capable of 5 Gb/s. Those are the theoretical maximums of both. However, in real life, esata will transfer data approx. twice as fast as USB 3.0. There has to be a lot of overhead on USB that is not there on sata. Technically, there are 4 lanes on USB 2.0 and 9 lanes on USB 3.0. This allows for data to be transfered both ways at the same time on 3.0.

I believe I said before that you were using the USB 2.0 connection when you plugged in your USB 3.0 cable, not the esata. You may find this of interest. Regardless, esata is about twice as fast as USB 3.0 in practice, but not theoretically.
USB 3.0: What You Need To Know - TechSpot

You have to distinguish between theoretical speed and actual speed, they are quite different. If you will look in device manager under USB controllers, you will probably find one or two with the word enhanced in it. If you do, then you already have the high speed USB 2.0. As far as I am aware, there is only USB 1.1, USB 2.0 (also known as high speed USB), and USB 3.0 (also known as super speed).
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Jan 2013   #19
B420

multiple computers and different OS'
 
 

well i managed to get 40mb/s out of it using AsRock's XFast USB tool, it puts USB2 into Turbo mode that helps a LOT, but still only 40mb/s. it used to be slower, like 30 or below i think.
and yes it should be 5400rpm.
this one:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Seagate-STBV...8664711&sr=8-2

anyway i bought this for fraps recordings, but it lags my games so bad, i haven't tested it again, but i think its a lot better now. it got games stuck around 20fps or even 15. i did one quick test using turbo mode and i got about 29fps, which is quite playable during recording.
i hope that with standalone PCI USB card i get it working at 60mb/s and it will solve the speed issues.

thanks for explanations essenbe


now this goes bit offtopic, but is there adapter/device to connect HDD into RAM slot? i know it doesn't make much sense, but since RAM slot is so much faster than HDD and even SSD, i find it useful, i could connect like 10 external HDDs into one RAM slot and get max speed out of each HDD.
..just saying, they should make adapter that connects many HDDs/SSDs into RAM slot. i have 8gb RAM and it is more than enought (never used up over 6, running 2 games, photoshop, camtasia, browsers, skype..etc), so 2 slots just sit there .. empty.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Jan 2013   #20
essenbe
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 X64
 
 

Not that I have ever heard of. You may consider a ram disk. I've never used one but I hear they are pretty fast and used as a cache. I don't know if that would work, but it would have to be able to transfer data to a hard drive as I believe they empty as soon as you reboot. Again, I have not looked into them or ever used one, but maybe something like that could be used to hold the data until it could be written to disk. Even then you are still limited to the write speed of the disk.
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 Problem with eSATA powered USB




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