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Windows 7: Building a new computer, help/info needed!

07 Feb 2013   #61
essenbe

Windows 7 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 Pro X64/Linux Mint
 
 

Twocables, it seems that the only arguement here is the theory of buying more than you need. I think both sides have their merits. It seems no one is arguing whether Corsair PSUs are good, only what size they should be. I can understand what you are saying and can see it has merit, I just would prefer to have way too much than too little. Plus, I am a constant upgrader and I don't want to upgrade my PSU as well as the rest of my rig.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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07 Feb 2013   #62
ICIT2LOL

Desk1 7 Home Prem / Desk2 10 Pro / Main lap Asus ROG 10 Pro 2 laptop Toshiba 7 Pro Asus P2520 7 & 10
 
 

Now for my two cents worth I see that somewhere it was mentioned that the GPU was rated at 450 watts abut that is only at full tilt isn't it? or does it use that at idle?
I was under the impression that any PSU will just provide the wattage that is required ie if the total use of the machine is say for arguments sake 250watts at any one instance then the PSU will just run that to the machine if you start to crank the machine up then that PSU will automatically adjust to that and the wattage goes up.
A bit like you depressing the accelerator pedal in a car it automatically adds more fuel/ air mixture into the engine or am I being too simplistic?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 Feb 2013   #63
TwoCables

 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Britton30 View Post
I trust Newegg's reviews. Period. Why you ask, Well I have written about some crappy items and they were published in all their negative glory. I know another member who has done the same.

PSU all have some peak/continuous rating of some sort. Having such a rating doesn't make one a good one though. The 80+ ratings take it all into account. Having a single 12V rail is desirable too.
Take the HX650 for example. Its 650W rating is a continuous rating, not a peak. This rating is based on 50C, and this means that as long as the PSU's temperature never exceeds 50C, then it can continuously deliver 650W. If the temperature exceeds 50C, then the amount of power that it can continuously deliver goes down as the temperature goes up.

The 80+ has nothing to do with the PSU's capacity. It's referring to how much power is lost as heat during the conversion process from the raw power at the wall outlet to the useable power for the system.

Let's say a system is pulling 425W from a PSU. If that PSU is 80% efficient while having 425W pulled from it, then it will have to pull 531W from the wall outlet. If it's 85% efficient while having 425W pulled from it, then it would have to pull 500W from the wall outlet. If it's 90% efficient while having 425W pulled from it, then it will only have to pull 472W from the wall outlet.

The amount of power the system is pulling from the PSU is what counts, not what it's pulling from the wall outlet. So in all 3 examples above, the only thing that matters is the rated wattage of the PSU. The efficiency is unrelated to the PSUs capacity (or "rated wattage").

Regarding having a single +12V rail vs. a multi-rail:

Single Rail vs. Multi Rail *Explained*

Note: this is a playfully-written article. I think he was in an extra good mood that day.
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07 Feb 2013   #64
Britton30
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Ultimate X64 SP1
 
 

I like my rig over-powered with Mr. Fusion power generator with flux capacitor, 1.21 gigawatts.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 Feb 2013   #65
essenbe

Windows 7 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 Pro X64/Linux Mint
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Britton30 View Post
I trust Newegg's reviews. Period. Why you ask, Well I have written about some crappy items and they were published in all their negative glory. I know another member who has done the same.

PSU all have some peak/continuous rating of some sort. Having such a rating doesn't make one a good one though. The 80+ ratings take it all into account. Having a single 12V rail is desirable too.
And that would probably be me. It's true, they will publish it. The trick is reading the reviews and determining who knows what they are talking about and who doesn't. There are also a few shills thrown in too. But, I do my research there and will continue. I know of no place who has more reviews on any piece of hardware than newegg. Just read carefully.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 Feb 2013   #66
TwoCables

 

Yikes. It looks like I stirred up a bee's nest.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ICit2lol View Post
Now for my two cents worth I see that somewhere it was mentioned that the GPU was rated at 450 watts abut that is only at full tilt isn't it? or does it use that at idle?
That's the PSU recommendation to power the entire system. However, that's for peak-rated PSUs (it always is). Almost all 450W peak-rated PSUs can (or should be able to) deliver about 3250-350W continuously. Some of the cheapest 450W units would really only be able to do 300W continuously if you're lucky. The general rule of thumb is multiply the PSU recommendation by 0.70 - 0.75 and that's the wattage rating to look for when shopping around for quality-made units.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ICit2lol View Post
I was under the impression that any PSU will just provide the wattage that is required ie if the total use of the machine is say for arguments sake 250watts at any one instance then the PSU will just run that to the machine if you start to crank the machine up then that PSU will automatically adjust to that and the wattage goes up.
A bit like you depressing the accelerator pedal in a car it automatically adds more fuel/ air mixture into the engine or am I being too simplistic?
That's correct. The PSU is just a unit in between the computer and the wall outlet that is enabling the computer to use the raw power from the wall outlet. So, it's converting the raw power from the wall outlet into power that the computer can use as it needs it. Higher quality PSUs do a much better job at this and so their power delivery is usually cleaner and more stable. Lower-quality units are still able to convert the raw power to power that the computer can use, but the quality of the power delivery is questionable (risky). It can be dirty and unstable. Low quality PSUs can sometimes cause lock-ups, BSODs, and other computer problems.
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07 Feb 2013   #67
TwoCables

 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by essenbe View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Britton30 View Post
I trust Newegg's reviews. Period. Why you ask, Well I have written about some crappy items and they were published in all their negative glory. I know another member who has done the same.

PSU all have some peak/continuous rating of some sort. Having such a rating doesn't make one a good one though. The 80+ ratings take it all into account. Having a single 12V rail is desirable too.
And that would probably be me. It's true, they will publish it. The trick is reading the reviews and determining who knows what they are talking about and who doesn't. There are also a few shills thrown in too. But, I do my research there and will continue. I know of no place who has more reviews on any piece of hardware than newegg. Just read carefully.
The problem is, what if you're a customer who doesn't know how to tell the difference?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 Feb 2013   #68
Britton30
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Ultimate X64 SP1
 
 

Two Cables you just have a way with words, don't you? Apparently you do know more than everyone else since you have disagreed with almost any statements made here. I hope th OP realizes the good recommendations here and see through the smoke and mirrors.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 Feb 2013   #69
ICIT2LOL

Desk1 7 Home Prem / Desk2 10 Pro / Main lap Asus ROG 10 Pro 2 laptop Toshiba 7 Pro Asus P2520 7 & 10
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Britton30 View Post
I trust Newegg's reviews. Period. Why you ask, Well I have written about some crappy items and they were published in all their negative glory. I know another member who has done the same.

PSU all have some peak/continuous rating of some sort. Having such a rating doesn't make one a good one though. The 80+ ratings take it all into account. Having a single 12V rail is desirable too.
Take the HX650 for example. Its 650W rating is a continuous rating, not a peak. This rating is based on 50C, and this means that as long as the PSU's temperature never exceeds 50C, then it can continuously deliver 650W. If the temperature exceeds 50C, then the amount of power that it can continuously deliver goes down as the temperature goes up.

The 80+ has nothing to do with the PSU's capacity. It's referring to how much power is lost as heat during the conversion process from the raw power at the wall outlet to the useable power for the system.

Let's say a system is pulling 425W from a PSU. If that PSU is 80% efficient while having 425W pulled from it, then it will have to pull 531W from the wall outlet. If it's 85% efficient while having 425W pulled from it, then it would have to pull 500W from the wall outlet. If it's 90% efficient while having 425W pulled from it, then it will only have to pull 472W from the wall outlet.

The amount of power the system is pulling from the PSU is what counts, not what it's pulling from the wall outlet. So in all 3 examples above, the only thing that matters is the rated wattage of the PSU. The efficiency is unrelated to the PSUs capacity (or "rated wattage").

Regarding having a single +12V rail vs. a multi-rail:

Single Rail vs. Multi Rail *Explained*

Note: this is a playfully-written article. I think he was in an extra good mood that day.
Again for what my opinion is worth you are exactly right what is pulled from the mains is the % of the input current is proportional to the output wattage and the easiest way is to calculate the max output wattage using Ohms law is 40 amps X + 12v = 480 watts assuming therefore that means that roughly 567 watts is being pulled at the mains outlet given a 20% loss. .

I meant to add that is working on the 12v alone of course the other volts are in my tiny mind negligible in comparison in modern units.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 Feb 2013   #70
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ICit2lol View Post
Now for my two cents worth I see that somewhere it was mentioned that the GPU was rated at 450 watts abut that is only at full tilt isn't it? or does it use that at idle?
I was under the impression that any PSU will just provide the wattage that is required ie if the total use of the machine is say for arguments sake 250watts at any one instance then the PSU will just run that to the machine if you start to crank the machine up then that PSU will automatically adjust to that and the wattage goes up.
A bit like you depressing the accelerator pedal in a car it automatically adds more fuel/ air mixture into the engine or am I being too simplistic?
Very good question. I will keep it simple because that is me.
I don't care if you have a 5000W power supply for your computer.
If you computer request 300W that is all the power supply will start producing and giving it to the components requesting it. When the request (demand) changes the power supply changes its output accordingly.
*** Example: Ohio Edison has millions of watt capability. What comes to my house is only what my house requires and ask for, no more. Hopefully no less. Because a power supply can produce xxxx does not mean it does it all the time. Just when asked to by the computer components.

It took me longer to search out the power supply I wanted looking through all the specs and checking out all the reviews than any other hardware in my computer. Remember the power supply and the tower/case is the roots of the computer tree.
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