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Windows 7: Connects with DSL Modem - Not with Cable Modem

18 Apr 2013   #11
boweasel

Windows 7 home premium 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Britton30 View Post
It could be the connection post in the PC has a misplaced wire that gets moved in shuttling back and forth
Can't believe that this wire always becomes misaligned on the trip to his place, and that it always self-corrects on the journey to my house.
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Britton30 View Post
As a not the router's IP should be 192.168.1.x, where x can be from 1-100.
There is no router involved - this is a wired connection.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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19 Apr 2013   #12
King Arthur

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

Let's get something clear here, what are the network setups like at your place and your uncle's?

You mentioned a cable modem at your uncle's with IP address of 169.*.*.*, and a DSL modem at your place with IP address of 192.168.*.*. This suggests that the computer in question connects to your DSL modem through a router or some other device with DHCP (192.168.*.* is a reserved range of IPs used for local networks), while it connects directly to the cable modem at your uncle's (I assume 169.*.*.* is the IP address given to your uncle by his ISP).

The fact the computer is also reconfiguring itself automatically each time it's connected to a different internet connection also leads me to safely assume the computer is having its connection information (IP, gateway, subnet, DNS, etc.) assigned dynamically through DHCP, not through static information previously entered by hand.

Given the above, have you looked through your uncle's internet connection's paperwork that his ISP should have provided? Have you used the information in those papers to check if the computer is configured properly for his cable connection? Putting aside the bootup issues, the problem as it has been described so far sounds like Windows either isn't being configured properly to use your uncle's cable connection.

You should also cross-check through ipconfig the connection information the working XP laptop your uncle has and the current computer in question. What differences are there, if any? Different IP addresses? Different gateways? Different subnets?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
19 Apr 2013   #13
boweasel

Windows 7 home premium 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by King Arthur View Post
Let's get something clear here, what are the network setups like at your place and your uncle's?

You mentioned a cable modem at your uncle's with IP address of 169.*.*.*, and a DSL modem at your place with IP address of 192.168.*.*. This suggests that the computer in question connects to your DSL modem through a router or some other device with DHCP (192.168.*.* is a reserved range of IPs used for local networks), while it connects directly to the cable modem at your uncle's (I assume 169.*.*.* is the IP address given to your uncle by his ISP).
No. The DSL modem I'm using is a combination router/modem, but I'm connecting my uncle's PC to that equipment with an ethernet cable. My uncle has no router of any sort. Just a plain vanilla cable modem. AFAIK an IP address that begins with the numbers 169 will never connect. In fact when I perform Troubleshooting on his connection (at his house, of course) it tells me that it has an invalid IP address.
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by King Arthur View Post
The fact the computer is also reconfiguring itself automatically each time it's connected to a different internet connection also leads me to safely assume the computer is having its connection information (IP, gateway, subnet, DNS, etc.) assigned dynamically through DHCP, not through static information previously entered by hand.
That is correct. His unit is configured to automatically detect network settings.
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by King Arthur View Post
Given the above, have you looked through your uncle's internet connection's paperwork that his ISP should have provided? Have you used the information in those papers to check if the computer is configured properly for his cable connection? Putting aside the bootup issues, the problem as it has been described so far sounds like Windows either isn't being configured properly to use your uncle's cable connection.
The people from the ISP spent 3 and a half hours at his house. They reinstalled his OS. Presumably they knew how to configure his system to suit their equipment. They left no paperwork.
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by King Arthur View Post
You should also cross-check through ipconfig the connection information the working XP laptop your uncle has and the current computer in question. What differences are there, if any? Different IP addresses? Different gateways? Different subnets?
The only thing I checked with the XP laptop at his house was the IP address. It started with the numbers 192.



Now, even though I've taken his PC back to factory settings and it's working and connecting, I do have a problem. And it's giving me great concern about hooking it up to his modem:
  • If I restart his PC all is well
  • If I shut down his PC and start it again with the power button all is well
but
  • If I turn off his computer for a longer period of time (and I can't give you anything exact, but I would say for at least 10 minutes), when I then restart it, it ALWAYS freezes at the Starting Windows screen, just before the sphere animation. This has happened every time with my modem. When I hold in the button to turn it off, then use the button to turn it on again I of course always get the Launch Repair or Start Normally choices. If I start normally I always get the sphere animation, the desktop always displays normally, and I ALWAYS get a perfectly clear Network icon in the Notification Area. And it always connects.
  • Every time I've taken it to my uncle's house that same scenario occurs. Since it's been without power for about 20 minutes it freezes on Starting Windows, before the balls. When I power off and power on it always takes me to the desktop, but with one .big difference. At his house there's ALWAYS a yellow triangle over the Network icon. And I ALWAYS cannot connect. Subsequent restarts at his house do not freeze, but the yellow triangle never goes away.
I assumed that this return to factory would eliminate that freezing problem, but I still have it if the machine is powered off for a while. I'm concerned that whatever is causing that freeze is a factor in why his PC won't connect with his modem.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

19 Apr 2013   #14
Britton30
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Ultimate X64 SP1
 
 

Previously in this thread...
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by boweasel View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Britton30 View Post
As a not the router's IP should be 192.168.1.x, where x can be from 1-100.
There is no router involved - this is a wired connection.
My router is wired.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
19 Apr 2013   #15
alphanumeric

Windows 10 Education 64 bit
 
 

If the XP PC is getting a an IP address that starts with 192 there is a router. IP addresses that start with 192 are in the private IP rang. If there was no router that PC would get a public IP address. Wired or wireless has nothing to do with whether there is a router or not.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
19 Apr 2013   #16
TVeblen

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 64 Bit Home Premium SP1
 
 

Some of the devices supplied by ISP are combination modem/routers.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
19 Apr 2013   #17
boweasel

Windows 7 home premium 64 bit
 
 

Okay, I need to correct a bit of information I supplied. I have WAY too many numbers on little tiny pieces of paper.

The IP address at my uncle's house using the XP laptop which is connected with an ethernet cable to his cable modem is 70.44.xxx.xx. This address works and he can connect to the internet.

His HP tower always has a 169 address at his house using the same modem and cable, and it won't connect. His HP tower connected to my DSL modem/router with an ethernet cable always gives a 192 address and it always connects.

Sorry about that. Does this help?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
19 Apr 2013   #18
TVeblen

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 64 Bit Home Premium SP1
 
 

Not much to me. I'm a hardware guy. Networking protocols make my head hurt.

What I know is that when you get a 169.xxx.xxx address that you basically have no connectivity (duh).
Here is a person speaking a foreign language:
169.254.0.0/16 addresses explained - Packet Life

If you were managing the network through a router using DNS this would be easier to manage. Since you are connecting directly to the modem I think it means that Windows is managing the addresses. And that is where you've lost me.

I suggest posting a new thread in the Networking forum. That's where you'll find someone who understands the protocols.
Keep the post simple, to the point, with just the correct facts. That helps folks who do not benefit from actually seeing what is going on.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
19 Apr 2013   #19
alphanumeric

Windows 10 Education 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by boweasel View Post
Okay, I need to correct a bit of information I supplied. I have WAY too many numbers on little tiny pieces of paper.

The IP address at my uncle's house using the XP laptop which is connected with an ethernet cable to his cable modem is 70.44.xxx.xx. This address works and he can connect to the internet.

His HP tower always has a 169 address at his house using the same modem and cable, and it won't connect. His HP tower connected to my DSL modem/router with an ethernet cable always gives a 192 address and it always connects.

Sorry about that. Does this help?
Yes, somewhat. 70.44.xxx.xxx. is a public IP and that means no router. Now having established that I have few more questions. How are these two PC connected to the modem? Are they both connected at the same time and if so how? The reason I ask is most ISP's will only give you 1 public IP address, which means only one device (PC) can be connected at any one time. To connect another PC you would have to install a router or request a second public IP and use a switch. If you only plugging in one PC at a time that may be the problem. The modem will remember the MAC address of the last device connected and only allow that device to connect. Power cycling the modem with the other PC connected will reset it and should get you back on the internet. If you have a switch connected the modem may still only allow one device to connect as each device will want a public IP and it will only give one out, usually to the first device that asks for it. A router gets around this because it only asks for one public IP address for its WAN port. It has its own DHCP function and gives out private IP addresses on the LAN ports. The router appears as one device to the modem and it does all the network translation internally to keep track of what PC is looking at what web page etc.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
19 Apr 2013   #20
boweasel

Windows 7 home premium 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
70.44.xxx.xxx. is a public IP and that means no router. Now having established that I have few more questions. How are these two PC connected to the modem? Are they both connected at the same time and if so how?
The 2 PCs - the XP laptop and the HP W7 are never connected at the same time. His cable modem only has 1 ethernet port, and when I went to his house tonight I detached the ethernet cord from the laptop (which was connected with the 70. IP address), and plugged it into his HP, which (after the freeze and subsequent reboot) would not connect and gave the 169 address.
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
If you only plugging in one PC at a time that may be the problem. The modem will remember the MAC address of the last device connected and only allow that device to connect. Power cycling the modem with the other PC connected will reset it and should get you back on the internet.
We have unplugged the modem while it's connected to the HP, left if off for 2 minutes, plugged it back in and stlll got the 169 IP.
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
If you have a switch connected the modem may still only allow one device to connect as each device will want a public IP and it will only give one out, usually to the first device that asks for it. A router gets around this because it only asks for one public IP address for its WAN port. It has its own DHCP function and gives out private IP addresses on the LAN ports. The router appears as one device to the modem and it does all the network translation internally to keep track of what PC is looking at what web page etc.
Interesting, but no switch. My uncle has now become so disgusted by the entire process that he vows not to waste any more time on the HP all in one. I hooked up his wireless keyboard and mouse to the laptop - he can read his email, play his Pogo games, and that's all he needs.

Personally, I would love to find out what the problem is, and whether it's related to the always freezing situation when the HP's unplugged for more than 10 minutes.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 Connects with DSL Modem - Not with Cable Modem




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