Connects with DSL Modem - Not with Cable Modem

My uncle has an HP all in one unit Omni running Home Edition SP1 64 bit that connects using a cable modem. The other day it stopped connecting and Ipconfig displayed an invalid IP address - 169 something.

I brought his unit home and connected it to my DSL modem. Immediate connection. IP address 192 something. I took it back to his house and it didn't connect again. He had the cable guys there for 3.5 hours Tuesday. They showed him that their laptop connected using his modem. I wasn't there to see it.

However he has an ancient XP laptop that connects just fine using his modem.

I now have his unit here at my house, and, once again, it's working perfectly.

The ONLY fly in the ointment is that when I took it back to his house it stayed on the Starting Windows screen. For about 5 minutes. We never got the merging balls. I held down the power button till it turned off, got the Repair your computer or Start Windows normally on the restart, selected start normally and this time got the merging balls and the desktop. I also got the yellow triangle on the network icon in the notification area.telling me taht I had no internet access. When I brought it back to my house and my DSL modem it again froze on the Starting Windows screen. I let it sit there for 20 minutes before I powered off. On the restart I again chose to start normally, but this time when the desktop displayed there was no yellow triangle, and I had internet access. I have no idea if this figures into the cable / DSL problem, but in the interests of full disclosure I thought I should add it to the info.

A chkdsk failed to find any problems.

It sounds like the Network Adapter in the HP is defective. The stall before the balls coalescing indicates a problem with hardware.

If all computers except the HP connect to the modem on the same cable (a 192 address indicates Ethernet connection) then you can assume the modem is OK and remove it from the equation.

If other computers connect to the modem using different cables then you might suspect the cable.

You could try uninstalling (removing from Device Manager) and reinstalling the Network Adapter. It should reinstall automatically on the next startup.

It might also be interesting to see what happens if you disable the device, to see if the startup stall disappears. You could disable it in Device Manager, but if you can disable it in the BIOS that would be an even better test.

Just so we're on the same page....these are modems that are not in the same physical area. The cable modem is at site A - the HP never connects, and always has a 169 IP address. The DSL modem is at site B - the HP always connects, and always has a 192 IP address.

I have uninstalled the network driver and turned the HP off, but the cable guys also messed with the Windows updates protocols so it's got 72 updates it's been installing for the past hour. Every single one of these seems to take several minutes to install, so I probably won't get to see the driver reinstall for at least another half hour. But I'm not sure what that'll tell us since the HP is now at site B, where it always connects.

Seems like there should be a better way to test this than constantly shuttling this HP the 10 miles between my house and my uncle's. And I have no idea what tools to use to try to diagnose the problem. And where would I use the tools if I had them? Site A - the cable modem? Or Site B - the DSL modem?

Updates completed, so the HP shut down. I removed the ethernet cable and the power cord, re-attached them and restarted the PC, now without an ethernet driver. It's been sitting on the Starting Windows screen (prior to the balls) for at least 10 minutes. I'll let it alone for another 30 minutes and report back.

Never budged. Held in power button. Restarted. Ignored startup repair and started normally (the only 2 choices). It spent what seemed like an inordinate amount of time configuring the updates (9 minutes), then it started normally, and the network icon has no yellow triangle. My IP address is 192.168.xxx.xxx and I connect immediately to the internet, so apparently the network adapter has reinstalled.

But I've seen this scenario before. I have a horrible feeling that if I take it for a 10 mile drive it won't connect.

As mentioned and if possible, try a different network cable. Other options are to power cycle/reboot the modem. You could also try running ipconfig/release and then ipconfig/renew from the command prompt window.

Thanks, but I've had enough... I've restored to factory settings and am installing Windows updates. So far, no freezing at the Starting Windows screen. And it connects every time. How it will do at my uncle's is anyone's guess.

I can't see how replacing any of the cables would mean anything. We've had 2 laptops connect without a hitch to that same modem using those same cables.

boweasel said:

Thanks, but I've had enough... I've restored to factory settings and am installing Windows updates. So far, no freezing at the Starting Windows screen. And it connects every time. How it will do at my uncle's is anyone's guess.

I can't see how replacing any of the cables would mean anything. We've had 2 laptops connect without a hitch to that same modem using those same cables.

Click to expand...

It wasn't obvious "not to me anyway", that another PC had used that cable so that's why I mentioned trying a different one.

It could be the connection post in the PC has a misplaced wire that gets moved in shuttling back and forth
As a not the router's IP should be 192.168.1.x, where x can be from 1-100.

alphanumeric said:

It wasn't obvious "not to me anyway", that another PC had used that cable so that's why I mentioned trying a different one.

Click to expand...

From my initial post:

I brought his unit home and connected it to my DSL modem. Immediate connection. IP address 192 something. I took it back to his house and it didn't connect again. He had the cable guys there for 3.5 hours Tuesday. They showed him that their laptop connected using his modem. I wasn't there to see it.

However he has an ancient XP laptop that connects just fine using his modem.

Britton30 said:

It could be the connection post in the PC has a misplaced wire that gets moved in shuttling back and forth

Click to expand...

Can't believe that this wire always becomes misaligned on the trip to his place, and that it always self-corrects on the journey to my house.

Britton30 said:

As a not the router's IP should be 192.168.1.x, where x can be from 1-100.

Click to expand...

There is no router involved - this is a wired connection.

Let's get something clear here, what are the network setups like at your place and your uncle's?

You mentioned a cable modem at your uncle's with IP address of 169.*.*.*, and a DSL modem at your place with IP address of 192.168.*.*. This suggests that the computer in question connects to your DSL modem through a router or some other device with DHCP (192.168.*.* is a reserved range of IPs used for local networks), while it connects directly to the cable modem at your uncle's (I assume 169.*.*.* is the IP address given to your uncle by his ISP).

The fact the computer is also reconfiguring itself automatically each time it's connected to a different internet connection also leads me to safely assume the computer is having its connection information (IP, gateway, subnet, DNS, etc.) assigned dynamically through DHCP, not through static information previously entered by hand.

Given the above, have you looked through your uncle's internet connection's paperwork that his ISP should have provided? Have you used the information in those papers to check if the computer is configured properly for his cable connection? Putting aside the bootup issues, the problem as it has been described so far sounds like Windows either isn't being configured properly to use your uncle's cable connection.

You should also cross-check through ipconfig the connection information the working XP laptop your uncle has and the current computer in question. What differences are there, if any? Different IP addresses? Different gateways? Different subnets?

King Arthur said:

Let's get something clear here, what are the network setups like at your place and your uncle's?

You mentioned a cable modem at your uncle's with IP address of 169.*.*.*, and a DSL modem at your place with IP address of 192.168.*.*. This suggests that the computer in question connects to your DSL modem through a router or some other device with DHCP (192.168.*.* is a reserved range of IPs used for local networks), while it connects directly to the cable modem at your uncle's (I assume 169.*.*.* is the IP address given to your uncle by his ISP).

Click to expand...

No. The DSL modem I'm using is a combination router/modem, but I'm connecting my uncle's PC to that equipment with an ethernet cable. My uncle has no router of any sort. Just a plain vanilla cable modem. AFAIK an IP address that begins with the numbers 169 will never connect. In fact when I perform Troubleshooting on his connection (at his house, of course) it tells me that it has an invalid IP address.

King Arthur said:

The fact the computer is also reconfiguring itself automatically each time it's connected to a different internet connection also leads me to safely assume the computer is having its connection information (IP, gateway, subnet, DNS, etc.) assigned dynamically through DHCP, not through static information previously entered by hand.

Click to expand...

That is correct. His unit is configured to automatically detect network settings.

King Arthur said:

Given the above, have you looked through your uncle's internet connection's paperwork that his ISP should have provided? Have you used the information in those papers to check if the computer is configured properly for his cable connection? Putting aside the bootup issues, the problem as it has been described so far sounds like Windows either isn't being configured properly to use your uncle's cable connection.

Click to expand...

The people from the ISP spent 3 and a half hours at his house. They reinstalled his OS. Presumably they knew how to configure his system to suit their equipment. They left no paperwork.

King Arthur said:

You should also cross-check through ipconfig the connection information the working XP laptop your uncle has and the current computer in question. What differences are there, if any? Different IP addresses? Different gateways? Different subnets?

Click to expand...

The only thing I checked with the XP laptop at his house was the IP address. It started with the numbers 192.



Now, even though I've taken his PC back to factory settings and it's working and connecting, I do have a problem. And it's giving me great concern about hooking it up to his modem:

• If I restart his PC all is well
• If I shut down his PC and start it again with the power button all is well

but

• If I turn off his computer for a longer period of time (and I can't give you anything exact, but I would say for at least 10 minutes), when I then restart it, it ALWAYS freezes at the Starting Windows screen, just before the sphere animation. This has happened every time with my modem. When I hold in the button to turn it off, then use the button to turn it on again I of course always get the Launch Repair or Start Normally choices. If I start normally I always get the sphere animation, the desktop always displays normally, and I ALWAYS get a perfectly clear Network icon in the Notification Area. And it always connects.
• Every time I've taken it to my uncle's house that same scenario occurs. Since it's been without power for about 20 minutes it freezes on Starting Windows, before the balls. When I power off and power on it always takes me to the desktop, but with one .big difference. At his house there's ALWAYS a yellow triangle over the Network icon. And I ALWAYS cannot connect. Subsequent restarts at his house do not freeze, but the yellow triangle never goes away.

I assumed that this return to factory would eliminate that freezing problem, but I still have it if the machine is powered off for a while. I'm concerned that whatever is causing that freeze is a factor in why his PC won't connect with his modem.

Previously in this thread...

boweasel said:

Britton30 said:

As a not the router's IP should be 192.168.1.x, where x can be from 1-100.

Click to expand...

There is no router involved - this is a wired connection.

Click to expand...

My router is wired.

If the XP PC is getting a an IP address that starts with 192 there is a router. IP addresses that start with 192 are in the private IP rang. If there was no router that PC would get a public IP address. Wired or wireless has nothing to do with whether there is a router or not.

Some of the devices supplied by ISP are combination modem/routers.

Okay, I need to correct a bit of information I supplied. I have WAY too many numbers on little tiny pieces of paper.

The IP address at my uncle's house using the XP laptop which is connected with an ethernet cable to his cable modem is 70.44.xxx.xx. This address works and he can connect to the internet.

His HP tower always has a 169 address at his house using the same modem and cable, and it won't connect. His HP tower connected to my DSL modem/router with an ethernet cable always gives a 192 address and it always connects.

Sorry about that. Does this help?

Not much to me. I'm a hardware guy. Networking protocols make my head hurt.

What I know is that when you get a 169.xxx.xxx address that you basically have no connectivity (duh).
Here is a person speaking a foreign language:
169.254.0.0/16 addresses explained - Packet Life

If you were managing the network through a router using DNS this would be easier to manage. Since you are connecting directly to the modem I think it means that Windows is managing the addresses. And that is where you've lost me.

I suggest posting a new thread in the Networking forum. That's where you'll find someone who understands the protocols.
Keep the post simple, to the point, with just the correct facts. That helps folks who do not benefit from actually seeing what is going on.

boweasel said:

Okay, I need to correct a bit of information I supplied. I have WAY too many numbers on little tiny pieces of paper.

The IP address at my uncle's house using the XP laptop which is connected with an ethernet cable to his cable modem is 70.44.xxx.xx. This address works and he can connect to the internet.

His HP tower always has a 169 address at his house using the same modem and cable, and it won't connect. His HP tower connected to my DSL modem/router with an ethernet cable always gives a 192 address and it always connects.

Sorry about that. Does this help?

Click to expand...

Yes, somewhat. 70.44.xxx.xxx. is a public IP and that means no router. Now having established that I have few more questions. How are these two PC connected to the modem? Are they both connected at the same time and if so how? The reason I ask is most ISP's will only give you 1 public IP address, which means only one device (PC) can be connected at any one time. To connect another PC you would have to install a router or request a second public IP and use a switch. If you only plugging in one PC at a time that may be the problem. The modem will remember the MAC address of the last device connected and only allow that device to connect. Power cycling the modem with the other PC connected will reset it and should get you back on the internet. If you have a switch connected the modem may still only allow one device to connect as each device will want a public IP and it will only give one out, usually to the first device that asks for it. A router gets around this because it only asks for one public IP address for its WAN port. It has its own DHCP function and gives out private IP addresses on the LAN ports. The router appears as one device to the modem and it does all the network translation internally to keep track of what PC is looking at what web page etc.

alphanumeric said:

70.44.xxx.xxx. is a public IP and that means no router. Now having established that I have few more questions. How are these two PC connected to the modem? Are they both connected at the same time and if so how?

Click to expand...

The 2 PCs - the XP laptop and the HP W7 are never connected at the same time. His cable modem only has 1 ethernet port, and when I went to his house tonight I detached the ethernet cord from the laptop (which was connected with the 70. IP address), and plugged it into his HP, which (after the freeze and subsequent reboot) would not connect and gave the 169 address.

alphanumeric said:

If you only plugging in one PC at a time that may be the problem. The modem will remember the MAC address of the last device connected and only allow that device to connect. Power cycling the modem with the other PC connected will reset it and should get you back on the internet.

Click to expand...

We have unplugged the modem while it's connected to the HP, left if off for 2 minutes, plugged it back in and stlll got the 169 IP.

alphanumeric said:

If you have a switch connected the modem may still only allow one device to connect as each device will want a public IP and it will only give one out, usually to the first device that asks for it. A router gets around this because it only asks for one public IP address for its WAN port. It has its own DHCP function and gives out private IP addresses on the LAN ports. The router appears as one device to the modem and it does all the network translation internally to keep track of what PC is looking at what web page etc.

Click to expand...

Interesting, but no switch. My uncle has now become so disgusted by the entire process that he vows not to waste any more time on the HP all in one. I hooked up his wireless keyboard and mouse to the laptop - he can read his email, play his Pogo games, and that's all he needs.

Personally, I would love to find out what the problem is, and whether it's related to the always freezing situation when the HP's unplugged for more than 10 minutes.