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Windows 7: Long Term Build

27 Aug 2013   #11
bobafetthotmail

Win 7 Pro 64-bit 7601
 
 

Another system builder's thoughts.

For a long-term build I would choose Ivy Bridge for at least one year, maybe two. Haswell is technically a fourth-generation intel processor but is a "first-generation" in a lot of things, they added a ton of power saving stuff and tweaks that were not there in the Ivy Bridge.
(was developed after Intel realized it is no more a semi-monopolist as most mobile devices running Android/iOS run on ARM processors an that's on the rise, so I doubt this stuff was an incremental change planned since years ago)

Since:
-performance difference is debatable,
-on a desktop with a dedicated GPU you don't need particular power savings nor the processor's better integrated graphics,
-they are "first-gens" in various fields so they can have unknown flaws or be unstable or have limited support from some programs or whatever.

I don't have anything against the 1150 socket, so the ivy bridge E could be a good way to go if you need the fetaures in the newest boards.

I also disagree with essenbe on the k processors. The price difference is negligible, around 30-50 bucks (especially for a long-term build), and with a k processor you usually get a higher-quality chip (the other ones are not k because they were tested at the fab and found unstable beyond a certain frequency, this implies slight defects in the chip, that can or cannot worsen with time and/or use).

The same is valid for boards. Overclock or gaming boards are designed to withstand more stress and are usually made with better-quality or "oversized" (workload, not physical size) components.
Solid-state capacitors are a must for a long-term build.

As long as you don't want more than one x16 PCI-e slot, (and even if you want two) you shouldn't break the 150$ ceiling for the board alone. This is my favourite board, you pay a bit of premium (170$) and if you SLI/Crossfire you need a full ATX case or a slightly bigger mATX one (although doing so leaves open more PCI-e slots for something else if you use two cards), but I think it's worth it.

And with the possibility of overclocking you can keep using it for a bit longer. (you would start overclocking in the last years of the rig)

Still, if you aren't in a hurry, I would wait a few months and see what AMD cooks up. I'm pretty intrigued at Kaveri. As it is supposed to use its own integrated GPU as a parallel task coprocessor, and if they are pulling this off without the need for specific software support other than drivers, that's a serious performance boost.
But then again it would be a true first-gen, so not the best choice for a long-term build.
Yeah, I'm an AMD fanboy.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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27 Aug 2013   #12
ICIT2LOL

Desk1 7 Home Prem / Desk2 10 Pro / Main lap Asus ROG 10 Pro 2 laptop Toshiba 7 Pro Asus P2520 7 & 10
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by essenbe View Post
You'll certainly see a performance increase over what you have now, no matter which platform you go with. But, there is not enough difference between the 1150 and 1155 that you could notice it. Also as a suggestion. You said you had no interest in overclocking, save a few dollars and don't go with the K chips then. The K only means they have an unlocked multiplier (allows you to overclock them) the boards are similar in that the overclocking boards cost more. If you do overclock, I really believe you are underestimating the heat produced by the 4770K. But, on everyday use, not overclocked a very good cooler will be fine, I think. You shouldn't have a problem at all. If you try to run a stabilty test or run applications that max it out, that will be another story. But, either platform will be a great performance increase over what you are running now. You will be surprised. Let us know when you get it built and how it does for you. You'll enjoy gaming more, I promise you that. And your new card will perform better too. I suspect it is being throttled right now by your CPU.
Hmm Steve the Haswell CPU's are only $10 different between i5 and i7 out here it is the motherboards that are costing an arm and a leg - at the moment and why I am sticking with Ivy for a bit longer.
For what it's worth I am just thinking of budget considerations for Salt depending on what the prices are like compared to ours over there
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27 Aug 2013   #13
essenbe

Windows 7 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 Pro X64/Linux Mint
 
 

EDIT: I just checked, John. My board cost me John, if you want the Haswell, just wait. It's brand new right now and they have the prices up. After the 'new' wears off you will probably see some drop in the prices, just like with Ivy Bridge. When the 3770K came out, here it was $350. It was much less 6 months later. I bought one the day they were released for $350, I bought another one several months later for $319. Same with the boards.

bobafetthotmail is most likely correct about the boards. The overclocking boards are made to withstand more heat and more voltage, so are most likely to be made with higher quality components. But, the CPu's are designed to be locked or unlocked before the manufacturing process. After the 'oven' they are tested and the better quality ones become i7's and the rest become i5's. At least that is the story from Intel.

EDIT: I just checked, John. My board cost me $385 when I bought it. I can buy the same board from the same place now for $357.
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27 Aug 2013   #14
msalton1

windows 7 Pro 64 Bit
 
 

Lots of good information in this thread. Thanks to everyone for the input. After pondering and looking into some of the points, I see that there truly isn't much difference between the 3770k and the 4770k in performance. So little, in fact, that performance difference isn't really worth considering, as can be seen here:

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 vs Core i7-3770K

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 vs Core i7-4770K

I'll likely spend around $200 on a board. I was considering either the Asus Z87 Pro or the
GIGABYTE GA-Z87X-UD4H for the 1150 socket, and I imagine I'll choose a similar board if I go with the 1155. My last several boards have been Gigabyte (in fact, I have 3 machines next to me all with Gigas). I've also owned many Asus. I've been happy with performance, stability and reliability in both names.

The onboard graphics in the 4770 don't really interest me. So I guess I'll examine the state of the 1150 socket system when the time comes (probably the next few months).

Thanks you for giving me something to think about and another direction. If I were to buy today, my guess is I would choose an Ivy based system.

Again, thanks to all.

Salt
My System SpecsSystem Spec
27 Aug 2013   #15
ICIT2LOL

Desk1 7 Home Prem / Desk2 10 Pro / Main lap Asus ROG 10 Pro 2 laptop Toshiba 7 Pro Asus P2520 7 & 10
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by essenbe View Post
EDIT: I just checked, John. My board cost me John, if you want the Haswell, just wait. It's brand new right now and they have the prices up. After the 'new' wears off you will probably see some drop in the prices, just like with Ivy Bridge. When the 3770K came out, here it was $350. It was much less 6 months later. I bought one the day they were released for $350, I bought another one several months later for $319. Same with the boards.

bobafetthotmail is most likely correct about the boards. The overclocking boards are made to withstand more heat and more voltage, so are most likely to be made with higher quality components. But, the CPu's are designed to be locked or unlocked before the manufacturing process. After the 'oven' they are tested and the better quality ones become i7's and the rest become i5's. At least that is the story from Intel.

EDIT: I just checked, John. My board cost me $385 when I bought it. I can buy the same board from the same place now for $357.
Yep ok Steve I sorta was banking on something like that happening really and watching what was going on with you folks and the testing.
Yes I often wonder at that story to be honest the Youtube video shows the same screen "printing" on those slices and I wonder what actually happens to the particular die that changes it as it is hard to imagine the component structure being altered so much it affects the performance. ie a few transistors change from NPN or PNP to the opposite of the original for a ridiculous example of course.
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28 Aug 2013   #16
kbrady1979

Windows 7 Professional 64bit SP1
 
 

The question is, do you do any photo/video editing where you need a 6-core Intel CPU? If the answer is yes, you may want to see what Ivy Bridge-Extreme has to offer next month at it's release. If the answer is no, then get the 3770K and a good Asus motherboard. If it were me, I'd skip Haswell.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 Aug 2013   #17
paulpicks21

Windows 7 Professional 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by msalton1 View Post
Lots of good information in this thread. Thanks to everyone for the input. After pondering and looking into some of the points, I see that there truly isn't much difference between the 3770k and the 4770k in performance. So little, in fact, that performance difference isn't really worth considering, as can be seen here:

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 vs Core i7-3770K

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 vs Core i7-4770K

I'll likely spend around $200 on a board. I was considering either the Asus Z87 Pro or the
GIGABYTE GA-Z87X-UD4H for the 1150 socket, and I imagine I'll choose a similar board if I go with the 1155. My last several boards have been Gigabyte (in fact, I have 3 machines next to me all with Gigas). I've also owned many Asus. I've been happy with performance, stability and reliability in both names.

The onboard graphics in the 4770 don't really interest me. So I guess I'll examine the state of the 1150 socket system when the time comes (probably the next few months).

Thanks you for giving me something to think about and another direction. If I were to buy today, my guess is I would choose an Ivy based system.

Again, thanks to all.

Salt
Looking at those benchmarks it looks like whatever you choose will be a significant upgrade with twice the power of your current cpu and less power consumption.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 Aug 2013   #18
bobafetthotmail

Win 7 Pro 64-bit 7601
 
 

@essenbe: I'm pretty sure that what I said about CPU was correct, although last time I actually checked is more than 6 years ago. I remember the days when the difference between overclockable or locked processor was decided by an external jumper thing on the processor itself.
Can you point me to something more up-to-date?
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28 Aug 2013   #19
essenbe

Windows 7 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 Pro X64/Linux Mint
 
 

No, I talked to Intel tech support about a year ago. We were discussing the process and that is what he told me. Plus I have read somewhere just about the same thing. I wish there were some way to do it externally.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 Sep 2013   #20
msalton1

windows 7 Pro 64 Bit
 
 

Hello again. Just wanted to update. I went with the Ausus Maximus VI Hero, i5 4670 cpu and 8GB Gskill Ripjaws X series. I guess I went against most opinions in this thread, but after much reading and research, I decided that Haswell would be the best fit. I don't plan on overclocking (so heat shouldn't be an issue), but the 4670 should give me plenty of headroom for my purposes. I bought the Hero (even though no immediate plans for overclocking) for the quality components and the likelihood that Intel will produce another 1150 cpu. I have several machines here and when I build a new one, existing components trickle down, so long term boards are a plus (in fact, I have a server running XP on an old Asus PIII board). Again, thank you all for your opinions, and apologies to anyone who might feel 'used' by the fact that I took a different path. Salt
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