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Windows 7: Sleep problem on high speed RAMs

22 Dec 2013   #11
TVeblen

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 64 Bit Home Premium SP1
 
 

I do not have a technical explanation as to why this might be happening, but since Sleep mode involves dumping the open desktop into RAM and then going into a low power state in order to keep the IC's active, then it makes sense to me that any hiccup involving RAM is going to cause an error in the process.

On the "overclocking" subject (which I always put in quotations when discussing RAM because I agree it is not to be confused with 'real' CPU overclocking) It is my understanding that most currently produced RAM modules running over 1600MHZ are technically "overclocked".

This is because the IC's (those chips on the memory module) have a natural (Real Clock) speed that does not change.

Most DDR3 RAM produced today is manufactured with chips that have a Real Clock speed of either 400MHz, 533MHz, and 666MHz. Recently 800MHz chips were introduced and readily available. These, I believe, are the fastest RAM chips available at reasonable prices today.

So Double Data Rate (DDR) Ram has a "DDR Clock" that is double the Real Clock, so 800MHz chips run at 1600MHz in the system naturally. These modules are rated PC3-12800 because at these speeds they should produce a theoretical maximum transfer rate of 12,800 MB/sec.

So my understanding is that most currently produced consumer RAM modules running over 1600MHz must be technically "overclocked" using multipliers and voltage variations in order to achieve these kinds of speed increases.

But things are always changing fast and there are always new stuff coming along. You can now buy high end enthusiast RAM modules with real clock speeds of 1066MHz.
Micron Unleashes World's Fastest DDR3 Memory Chips - X-bit labs
(I have not seen any motherboards that use these ball-grid array modules though. Have you?)

EDIT: Changing even faster - and prices coming down to mere ridiculous!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820211804


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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22 Dec 2013   #12
sygnus21

Windows 10 Pro
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
Anyway I kind of hate the word "overclock" when it comes to high end RAM modules because the old specs says anything above 1066MHz is overclocked, whereas as today's RAM modules are far surpassing that spec. So to me, they need to get rid of the "overclock" designation for modules natively running above the stated 1066MHz mark.
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by TVeblen View Post
On the "overclocking" subject (which I always put in quotations when discussing RAM because I agree it is not to be confused with 'real' CPU overclocking) It is my understanding that most currently produced RAM modules running over 1600MHZ are technically "overclocked".

So my understanding is that most currently produced consumer RAM modules running over 1600MHz must be technically "overclocked" using multipliers and voltage variations in order to achieve these kinds of speed increases.
The point I make is I do not agree this should be the case any longer.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by TVeblen View Post
I do not have a technical explanation as to why this might be happening, but since Sleep mode involves dumping the open desktop into RAM and then going into a low power state in order to keep the IC's active, then it makes sense to me that any hiccup involving RAM is going to cause an error in the process.
As far as restarts during boot process, yes, sometimes overclocked systems will do this, why?

With regards to sleep issues... again, while anything is possible, I feel it is more likely a driver or power plan issue as opposed to overclocked RAM. My experience, as well as others is that we've had "overclocked" RAM for years and never had sleep issues. But, anything is possible so...

Point is you'd better look at the drivers and other stuff as well, otherwise you could be chasing something that's not even an issue.

With that, I'd look at the power plan settings as well - Power Plan Settings - Change
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22 Dec 2013   #13
nokturrduk84

Windows 7 64-bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sygnus21 View Post
Anyway I kind of hate the word "overclock" when it comes to high end RAM modules because the old specs says anything above 1066MHz is overclocked, whereas as today's RAM modules are far surpassing that spec. So to me, they need to get rid of the "overclock" designation for modules natively running above the stated 1066MHz mark.
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by TVeblen View Post
On the "overclocking" subject (which I always put in quotations when discussing RAM because I agree it is not to be confused with 'real' CPU overclocking) It is my understanding that most currently produced RAM modules running over 1600MHZ are technically "overclocked".

So my understanding is that most currently produced consumer RAM modules running over 1600MHz must be technically "overclocked" using multipliers and voltage variations in order to achieve these kinds of speed increases.
The point I make is I do not agree this should be the case any longer.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by TVeblen View Post
I do not have a technical explanation as to why this might be happening, but since Sleep mode involves dumping the open desktop into RAM and then going into a low power state in order to keep the IC's active, then it makes sense to me that any hiccup involving RAM is going to cause an error in the process.
As far as restarts during boot process, yes, sometimes overclocked systems will do this, why?

With regards to sleep issues... again, while anything is possible, I feel it is more likely a driver or power plan issue as opposed to overclocked RAM. My experience, as well as others is that we've had "overclocked" RAM for years and never had sleep issues. But, anything is possible so...

Point is you'd better look at the drivers and other stuff as well, otherwise you could be chasing something that's not even an issue.

With that, I'd look at the power plan settings as well - Power Plan Settings - Change
I played with that too, changed from balanced to high performance, but it didn't help.

Is there something in Windows 7, where I can set sleep as a shutdown? I mean to enable sleep, but when PC goes in sleep, instead it gonna go to shutdown. Is there something?
Cause sometimes I like to leave my PC & go to sleep myself & I want it to shutdown after 1 or 2 hours of idling.
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22 Dec 2013   #14
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

I don't use sleep. With the 5 sec. it takes to shut down and less that 40 sec to start up cold I see no reason for its use.
I also with my systems might have a sleep problem if I ever used it.
I really don't know.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
22 Dec 2013   #15
nokturrduk84

Windows 7 64-bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Layback Bear View Post
I don't use sleep. With the 5 sec. it takes to shut down and less that 40 sec to start up cold I see no reason for its use.
I also with my systems might have a sleep problem if I ever used it.
I really don't know.
I see you have the same RAMs as me
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22 Dec 2013   #16
TVeblen

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 64 Bit Home Premium SP1
 
 

I guess the key to this is the previous statement in which you say that when you turn the RAM speed down to 1600 the PC sleeps fine, but when you increase it to 2400 the PC won't sleep.

@sygnus21
"As far as restarts during boot process, yes, sometimes overclocked systems will do this, why? "

My understanding is that this has to do with the series of checks the BIOS makes during the boot process, particularly the POST.
Any inconsistency from expectation is going to make the boot process fail. I'm not familiar with the specifics of a CPU parameter, RAM test, or checksum, but I know that everything must check out as expected before the system will hand off to the Boot Manager.
I believe that is what they mean when they talk about a "stable overclock". You've got to limit your changes so that the system as a whole stays within that acceptable range of test results during POST.
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22 Dec 2013   #17
sygnus21

Windows 10 Pro
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by nokturrduk84 View Post
I played with that too, changed from balanced to high performance, but it didn't help.

Is there something in Windows 7, where I can set sleep as a shutdown? I mean to enable sleep, but when PC goes in sleep, instead it gonna go to shutdown. Is there something?
Cause sometimes I like to leave my PC & go to sleep myself & I want it to shutdown after 1 or 2 hours of idling.
I gave you a link, you need to look around in the power settings are make sure things are set correctly. I also suggested looking at drivers, even to the point of making sure you have the latest ones. I'd also add that you should make sure you have all of Win 7's critical updates as well.

Oh, and BTW, moving to "high performance" would be counter to sleep as you're basically telling the system to run full bore all the time. So if you're having sleep issues, you DO NOT want high performance. Again, actually read through the link I provided for Power Plan settings!

Diagnosing sleep issues isn't easy and requires a lot of trial and error as well as patience. I know, I'm having issues with my Win 8.1 setup, which also refuses to sleep

For me, I've narrowed it down to either my GPU beta drivers, or my audio card drivers which aren't Win 8.1 supported yet

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by TVeblen View Post
I guess the key to this is the previous statement in which you say that when you turn the RAM speed down to 1600 the PC sleeps fine, but when you increase it to 2400 the PC won't sleep.
Hmmm.... I missed that one, but yeah, it is weird, and yeah, the RAM should be looked at in this instance. But if that's the case, I suspect the RAM isn't capable of running at (sustaining) those speeds, or you have a bad stick(s).

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by TVeblen View Post
@sygnus21
"As far as restarts during boot process, yes, sometimes overclocked systems will do this, why? "

My understanding is that this has to do with the series of checks the BIOS makes during the boot process, particularly the POST.
Any inconsistency from expectation is going to make the boot process fail. I'm not familiar with the specifics of a CPU parameter, RAM test, or checksum, but I know that everything must check out as expected before the system will hand off to the Boot Manager.
I believe that is what they mean when they talk about a "stable overclock". You've got to limit your changes so that the system as a whole stays within that acceptable range of test results during POST.
Agree; but even "stable" systems will show this behavior at times as was discussed at Gigabyte's forums a few years back. Sounds weird to me too, but...
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 Sleep problem on high speed RAMs




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