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Windows 7: So what’s the difference between USB Versions?

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20 Jul 2014   #11
ICIT2LOL

Desk1 7 Home Prem / Desk2 10 Pro / Main lap Asus ROG 10 Pro 2 laptop Toshiba 7 Pro Asus P2520 7 & 10
 
 

My query is what governs the speed of the 3.0 USB? the board ports - the devices themselves or the OS?? Because it strikes me that it is like having a car with an enormous engine and it is governed to only travel up to a certain speed! so pointless having an engine that will power the car to very high speeds.


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21 Jul 2014   #12
essenbe

Windows 7 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 Pro X64/Linux Mint
 
 

John, I think it all contributes. The cable you use, the speed of the drive you are transferring to as well as from and there is some evidence that the type of files you transfer affect the speed. I also think there is some overhead in transferring data USB to sata.
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21 Jul 2014   #13
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Steve pretty much nailed, John. I mentioned having USB 3.0 devices that won't run at full USB 3.0 speeds. Others have mentioned MOBOs won't run at full USB 3.0 speeds. USB 3.0 is backwards compatible (pretty much, there are a few exceptions I can think of) but that only means you can use USB 1.1 and 2.0 devices and cables with it; it doesn't mean you can use a USB 1.1 (does anyone even have anything using 1.1 anymore?) or 2.0 in USB 3.0 ports and get USB 3.0 speeds.
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21 Jul 2014   #14
essenbe

Windows 7 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 Pro X64/Linux Mint
 
 

Well, Lady F. my biggest gripe is all the advertisers saying that this USB 3.0 deice is 10 times faster than USB 2.0. That is false advertising as far as I'm concerned. You and I both know, it is never going to happen in real life. I have tried it from 1 SSD to another SSD and it is faster than USB 2.0, but no where near what they claim. I don't believe anyone outside of some fancy lab has ever seen 10 times faster. That is a theoretical speed limit, not an actual one, and the advertisers know that.
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21 Jul 2014   #15
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by essenbe View Post
Well, Lady F. my biggest gripe is all the advertisers saying that this USB 3.0 deice is 10 times faster than USB 2.0. That is false advertising as far as I'm concerned. You and I both know, it is never going to happen in real life. I have tried it from 1 SSD to another SSD and it is faster than USB 2.0, but no where near what they claim. I don't believe anyone outside of some fancy lab has ever seen 10 times faster. That is a theoretical speed limit, not an actual one, and the advertisers know that.
Most of the time, the claims say "up to ten times faster" which, technically, is true; the standard is ten times faster. I agree that it is deceptive, though, because they fail to mention the variables that will prevent reaching full speed. In the case of my USB sticks, Kingston only said that they are USB 3.0. all that means is that the stick has the extra connections of USB 3.0 and runs faster than USB 2.0, which it does, just not one heck of a lot. When people complain that the sticks don't run at 5.0Gbps, Kingston will readily admit that they are an entry level product and won't be as fast as more expensive ones. I bought them on sale realizing that. For only $5, I got sticks that run much faster than my old USB 2.0 sticks and were inexpensive enough to consider them to be disposable. In other words, I could loan one to someone to transfer files, usually photos, and not lose sleep over them should one not return (I rarely use them my self).

The only other USB 3.0 devices I have are the Arctic HDD enclosures I put 500GB 2.5" WD Blacks into for use with my notebooks (the newest one has USB 3.0 ports). It makes the claim, "Supports USB 3.0, up to 5GB/sec" (italics mine) yet it also says it is only SATA II compliant. There is no way on God's green Earth that that little enclosure is going to run at 5.0Gbps simply because current HDDs simply do not run that fast, even a nice 7200rpm one like the WD Blacks. It's still considerably faster than USB 2.0 ever could be and I quite happy with that, especially since it was inexpensive and very compact. Now, if I were to put, say, a Sammy 850 Pro in there, the SATA II interface would most likely be a bottleneck but, then again, I'm too cheap to pay for an SSD to use for just short term storage and, if I were to completely lose my marbles and spring for a new 500GB 850 Pro to use in an external enclosure, I would also shell out the shekels for a better enclosure.
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21 Jul 2014   #16
ComputerGeek

Desk 1: Win 7 Pro x32; Desk 2: Windows 10 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by essenbe View Post
John, I think it all contributes. The cable you use, the speed of the drive you are transferring to as well as from and there is some evidence that the type of files you transfer affect the speed. I also think there is some overhead in transferring data USB to sata.
You hit it on the head.

I always liken that to something I learned in high school chemistry where the rate of a chemical reaction depends almost entirely on the "rate determining step". In this case, end-to-end data transfer is like a chemical reaction.

What we see as a single chemical reaction actually consists of many smaller and fast sub-reactions. The rate of the chemical reaction is determined by the speed of the slowest sub-reaction ("step") in the series.

Same is true for computers. Vendors talk about "theoretical" data speeds. Achieving "theoretical" end-to-end transfer rate assumes every sub-component involved in the transfer is capable of maximum speed.

In reality, the speed of the slowest sub-component involved in the end-to-end transfer (the cables, each hardware device, etc) is the "rate determing step" that determines the maximum speed of the data exchange. (The end-to-end speed is throttled by the speed of the slowest device)
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22 Jul 2014   #17
ICIT2LOL

Desk1 7 Home Prem / Desk2 10 Pro / Main lap Asus ROG 10 Pro 2 laptop Toshiba 7 Pro Asus P2520 7 & 10
 
 

Yep I can understand the cable and device being used bits but as Steve says it is very annoying for them to claim what they do when really the reality is that the board circuitry is not capable of delivering the goods. To me it is a fairly fake if not even fraudulent sales pitch.

Me I don't care to be honest as long s I get enough ports at the back of the machine / board as I have found 2.0 to be really fast anyway.
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22 Jul 2014   #18
essenbe

Windows 7 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 Enterprise X64/Windows 10 Pro X64/Linux Mint
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ICit2lol View Post
Yep I can understand the cable and device being used bits but as Steve says it is very annoying for them to claim what they do when really the reality is that the board circuitry is not capable of delivering the goods. To me it is a fairly fake if not even fraudulent sales pitch.

Me I don't care to be honest as long s I get enough ports at the back of the machine / board as I have found 2.0 to be really fast anyway.
Well John, you would like USB 3.0 then. In actual practice you will probably find 3.0 to be 2-3 times as fast as 2.0. With my rig, I tested it and got around 2.5 times, which I'm happy with. But, I use eSATA most, as it is faster than USB 3.0.
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22 Jul 2014   #19
ICIT2LOL

Desk1 7 Home Prem / Desk2 10 Pro / Main lap Asus ROG 10 Pro 2 laptop Toshiba 7 Pro Asus P2520 7 & 10
 
 

Hmm Steve I use the ports mostly for hooking up the mouse and KB , printer etc so speed is not that important on the back of the machine. On the front of my Ivy I have four 3.0 and four 2.0 ports via the usual front panel stuff and a card reader.
I must admit I have never used the eSATA connection - I suppose I should give it a try as there are two one back one front for the external I back up to.
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22 Jul 2014   #20
Lady Fitzgerald

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

I mentioned the USB 3.0 sticks and enclosures I occasionally use but forgot to mention my internal card reader. It's based off USB 3.0, which it gets from a PCI-e slot (using only one lane). If I put a Class 10 SD card in it, it will run circles around the same card in a USB 2.0 reader.

I use an equivalent of e-SATA for my bare backup HDDs; two internal HDD docks connected directly to SATA III connections coming off my HBA card.
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 So what’s the difference between USB Versions?




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