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Windows 7: is Corsair VS450 good build for my pc

22 Jul 2014   #11
ICIT2LOL

Desk1 7 Home Prem / Desk2 10 Pro / Main lap Asus ROG 10 Pro 2 laptop Toshiba 7 Pro Asus P2520 7 & 10
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Layback Bear View Post
Mtp where did you find this piece of information.

From post # 9

Quote:
I would not go any bigger than 450 - especially as PSUs become much less efficient at low loads.
MTP as my understanding of the machinations of PSU's is that they adapt the power draw from the mains in direct correlation to what the machine is using = say the machine is requiring 200 watts of DC power at idle then the power from the mains will be accordingly similar and that may be 220 watts of AC power (very rough example) when at high machine usage say 350 watts DC power is being required then the draw from the mains may well be 420watts of AC power. The efficiency is built into the PSU circuitry to sense the amount of power being used and adjust the power being drawn.
Now that efficiency of any PSU is measured by the manufacturers as a percentage of the power converted from AC to DC. The figures quoted as 80% is then rated by colours meaning that a gold 80% rated device is better than a silver 80% PSU. See the efficiency levels in this link 80 Plus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So in reality the PSU will always draw more watts (AC) than what (no pun) is being produced as watts (DC) power. That is simply because there is always some power loss in every component in any electronic device.
To give you an idea say pass an electric current through a resistor the amount of power at the "outlet" end will be less than the input because the passage of the electrons causes heat to be produced by the mechanism of friction for want of a better analogy and therefore taking the laws of the conservation of energy the total energy in will not equal the energy put out.
The same goes for all electronic components and a good example of this is of course the CPU!
So wherever that information came from is wrong especially of the technology behind how those electronic components and devices are now made. Again and lastly for an example of the power being dissipated - a power transistor of this day and age compared to the old power output vacuum tubes of a few decades ago is light years apart.


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22 Jul 2014   #12
mtp

Server 2012 R2, Windows 8.1 , W7 ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ICit2lol View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Layback Bear View Post
Mtp where did you find this piece of information.

From post # 9

Quote:
I would not go any bigger than 450 - especially as PSUs become much less efficient at low loads.
MTP as my understanding of the machinations of PSU's is that they adapt the power draw from the mains in direct correlation to what the machine is using = say the machine is requiring 200 watts of DC power at idle then the power from the mains will be accordingly similar and that may be 220 watts of AC power (very rough example) when at high machine usage say 350 watts DC power is being required then the draw from the mains may well be 420watts of AC power.
Using your numbers as an example. Your theoretical power supply is 200/220 = 91% efficient at a 200W draw and 350/420 = 83% efficient at a 350W draw.

Yor computer, at idle will likely be less than 50W. If delivering 50W requires 65W then it is 77% efficient. All power supplies follow this basic curve less efficient at low and high power relative to max rated output and more efficient in the middle. I did a quick google for power supply efficency and found the found the following for a corsair psu:



Below 50W - efficiency continues to drop steeply.

When Hardware is Free, Power is Expensive

Here is a chart from Anandtech that shows comparisons across different wattage psus.



Mark
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22 Jul 2014   #13
ICIT2LOL

Desk1 7 Home Prem / Desk2 10 Pro / Main lap Asus ROG 10 Pro 2 laptop Toshiba 7 Pro Asus P2520 7 & 10
 
 

Yes Mark my figures were exactly that - plucked out the air as an example. I know one can get these sites up - but the bottom line and my point is that what goes in is not what comes out. As Layback Bear was probably thinking as I did what you were saying sounded like the size of the PSU doesn't matter and personally I like to have a fairly large margin of error when buying my PSU's and am not happy with anything less than 500 watt devices. The saving if there is any at all using a smaller device is really minimal and one runs the risk if one can put it tht way of over driving the small PSU.
Better to have a tad overkill than not and fry the device. I did post that link to the calculator and it is very good as you can see by it recommending the size of the PSU as well as detailing the actual power usage of the system.

But the choice is yours and now I am wondering why you asked the question in the first post?? if you have already stated what you are going to do. Again personally I would not use a VS even though it is Corsair I would use the CX models in preference. That is simply because the Corsairs like all other brands are not made by the same manufacturer, and thereby so does the quality go too - IMHO.
See this PSU Makers: C-D - Who's Who In Power Supplies, 2013: Brands Vs. Manufacturers
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22 Jul 2014   #14
mtp

Server 2012 R2, Windows 8.1 , W7 ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ICit2lol View Post
... but the bottom line and my point is that what goes in is not what comes out.
We agree 100% - This is what the efficiency curve shows ...

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ICit2lol View Post
As Layback Bear was probably thinking as I did what you were saying sounded like the size of the PSU doesn't matter ...
My suggestion that I would not go bigger than 450W was based on the OPs planned upgraded specs. In fact if you use the extremetech calculator they recommend a 200W supply.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ICit2lol View Post
and personally I like to have a fairly large margin of error when buying my PSU's and am not happy with anything less than 500 watt devices.
Fair enough - everyone should make decisions based on what is important to them. Personally, I estimate the max usage and then add an additional 25 to 50%.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ICit2lol View Post
The saving if there is any at all using a smaller device is really minimal
I did some back of the envelope calculations comparing what a 10% difference (absolute e.g. 80% vs. 90%) and it came to about $3 per year per psu. However I run 5 psus. Assuming that a small psu will cost $30 less than a bigger one and that a psu will last 5 years. I save $9 per year per psu. probably not a major factor for most people.

For me, personally, there is another cost - heat and noise. A less efficient power supply will generate more heat which will make the cooling louder. I like silent pcs.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ICit2lol View Post
and one runs the risk if one can put it tht way of over driving the small PSU.
Better to have a tad overkill than not and fry the device. I did post that link to the calculator and it is very good as you can see by it recommending the size of the PSU as well as detailing the actual power usage of the system.
Agree - if the psu is too small. Your calculater indicates 200W is sufficient for the OPs needs. IMO, saying I would not go beyond 450W is leaving more than sufficient margin.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ICit2lol View Post
But the choice is yours and now I am wondering why you asked the question in the first post?? if you have already stated what you are going to do.
I think you have me confused with the OP.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ICit2lol View Post
Again personally I would not use a VS even though it is Corsair I would use the CX models in preference. That is simply because the Corsairs like all other brands are not made by the same manufacturer, and thereby so does the quality go too - IMHO.
See this PSU Makers: C-D - Who's Who In Power Supplies, 2013: Brands Vs. Manufacturers
Agree
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22 Jul 2014   #15
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

MTP thank you for the charts.

I will use no charts. I will use my rule of thumb.

1. Get more power supply than you need.
The reason is if your system has the capability of a 400W demand a 500W power supply would have to work very hard to keep up. That would create lots of heat and noise from the fan. It would also shorten the life of the power supply.

2. With today's quality power supplies the efficiency at all loads is close to 80 to 90%.
Once again no charts or websites just by my memory and all the research I have done.
Smaller wattage power supplies actually draw more power from the wall socket that a larger higher wattage power supply because you are asking it to work in the 40 to 50% range to keep up and produce heat and noise. A higher wattage power supply would only be working in the 15 to 20% range to do the same job. The fans on my AX-860 and AX-860i seldom come on because they can handle the work load without a sweat and not produce a lot of heat doing so.

3. A higher wattage quality power supply gives you the ability to add things to a computer without upgrading a power supply. Or with a new build you could take the power supply out of old Betsey and use in your new system if need be.

4. Their is no such things as to big of power supply if you are willing to spend the money.
A power supply will only supply the power needed for a system according to the demand.
If your system demands 300W a 500W or a 1000W power supply will give the system 300W and no more. The difference is the 500W power supply has to work harder to do it. Therefor it draws more from the wall socket.

5. The price of electricity varies from location to location.
In my home I have one or two computers running about 12 to 16 hours a day.
The power savings if at all if I went to a so called Green power supply I could make up by turning off a lamp. It cost pennies a day to run my two computer systems. The last time I figured out the price of electricity using my computer systems was less than a Starbuck Coffee per month.

6. Always use a modular power supply. They make a build soooo much easier and neater.
---------------------------
One of the reasons I don't post a bunch of charts and graphs is because I went through this about year or so ago with another member and all the charts and graphs did was confuse the members trying to select a power supply.
The only reason I don't have a 1000W power supply is because the new build was sneaking up on $3000.00 as it was.
My system will run on a lower wattage power supply quite well but with the AX-860i it will do it cooler and quieter with room to grow.

PS: If one wants the charts and graphs their thousands of website, maybe millions that one can Google.
I think the last site I looked on was Jonny Guru about power supplies but it was a year or so ago.

Please note I keep posting a quality power supply.
If you by a 500W or a 1000W low quality junk power supply you still got a junk low quality power supply.

PC Power Supply Discussion - jonnyGURU Forums


I hope my rule of the thumb helps.
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22 Jul 2014   #16
ICIT2LOL

Desk1 7 Home Prem / Desk2 10 Pro / Main lap Asus ROG 10 Pro 2 laptop Toshiba 7 Pro Asus P2520 7 & 10
 
 

My apologies for the confusion with the OP and as with everything you will never get total agreement from everyone.

My Ivy Bridge only has the HX 1050 because it was on offer otherwise I was going the HX 750.

Plus I think it was essenbe pointed out once that modulars are good because they can be removed without disassembling the whole machine - something that had not even occurred to me. So it is modular for me in the future or even a semi mod would be better because there are only the essentials in situ.
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22 Jul 2014   #17
Phill3990

Windows 7 Home Premium x64
 
 

I have a Corsair Builder Series CXM 600W Modular and have had no issues with it at all. I went with Corsair because they have a good reputation, it was easy to install and has zero noise, not even sure if it gets hot lol. Its possible 600W is too much for my rig, but its always better to have too much then not enough

Knowing my luck if I had gone smaller it wouldn't have worked and it would have got launched out of a window

My two cents

Phill
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22 Jul 2014   #18
ICIT2LOL

Desk1 7 Home Prem / Desk2 10 Pro / Main lap Asus ROG 10 Pro 2 laptop Toshiba 7 Pro Asus P2520 7 & 10
 
 

I agree with Phill as one might have guessed for the small extra a bit of overkill goes a long way.
Bit like having a 200hp engine in a car as opposed to having a 150hp one - it simply doesn't have to work so hard. A no brainer really.
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 is Corsair VS450 good build for my pc




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