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Windows 7: PSU went up in smoke. New PSU won't boot PC

11 Jul 2016   #41
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

A surge protector is designed to protect your system from surges from the wall outlet surges to your system.

A quality power supply has built in high and low voltage and amp protection BUT when a power supply goes up in smoke those protection could be damaged and the surges from the power supply could enter the rest of your computer.
They most likely did.

Burnt smells from the motherboard is a BIG clue.

I had a very long time ago had the same problem you had with a power supply.
I put a new power supply in and booted a few times. Then piece at a time things just started going bad. It only took a few days.
I ended up just building a new computer using a quality Corsair top of their line power supply. A power supply is no place to try and save money. Many members are also have good luck with EVGA Gold or higher.


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11 Jul 2016   #42
probuddha

Win 7 Professional 64 bit
 
 

Thanks LB.

One more thing guys; I was recently reviewing the PSU brand I just purchased and it doesn't seem to have good reviews. The PSU is rated at 600 watts and the brand is Zebronics. Attached is the specification chart of the model.

Could you please review and advise whether this is something I could trust or should I just dump this in the garbage and go for a reputed brand like Corsair?

I don't like the idea of flushing $50 down the drain but a lot more is at stake here

Kindly advise

Many thanks


Attached Thumbnails
PSU went up in smoke. New PSU won't boot PC-4q4d9w.jpg  
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11 Jul 2016   #43
ignatzatsonic

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, 64-bit
 
 

That brand seems to be restricted to India and is rarely if ever seen in North America.

I can't even find out who actually builds it in the standard databases. "Zebronics" is almost certainly just the brand name stuck on it for marketing purposes.

I'd never buy it myself. It could work for years---you have no way of knowing.

I'd replace it if you can get your money back.

The best thing you can do is post a link to the store or stores from which you will buy so we can look over their stock.

I'd look for something from any of these brands:

Seasonic
EVGA GS and GQ series
Corsair RM, AX, or HX series; avoid the CX series
Super Flower
XFX XTR or TS series

I wouldn't get obsessed with the platinum/gold/silver/bronze thing. That relates to efficiency rather than build quality.

There are many high quality gold units that are quite efficient.

I'd try to get something modular or semi-modular.

I looked at Amazon India---most of the brands seen are completely unknown in North America.

I did see some Corsair and Seasonic units around 500 watts.

This Corsair is pretty good and fully modular

Amazon.in: Buy Corsair RM Series RM550 550W 80 Plus Gold Certified Fully Modular Power Supply PSU SMPS Online at Low Prices in India | Corsair Reviews & Ratings


This Seasonic is OK too; semi-modular

Amazon.in: Buy Seasonic SSR-550RT S12G Series 550W Power Supply Online at Low Prices in India | Sea Sonic Reviews & Ratings

I don't see anything at Amazon from any other known good brand, but maybe you can find XFX, EVGA, Super Flower, etc at other suppliers in India. If not, I'd get one of the two above from Amazon.

Unless you want to stick with that Zebronics. If you do, you have more nerve than I do.
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11 Jul 2016   #44
probuddha

Win 7 Professional 64 bit
 
 

Thanks for your response. Unfortunately, I can't return or exchange it since the seal has been opened. This was purchased from a brick and mortar store and they don't always have their stock updated on their website.

Anyhow, this is the website of the store I plan on visiting for my motherboard. Please let me know if you can find anything on it

http://mdcomputers.in/

I have already seen the consequences of a failing PSU and so I am very much wary of what PSU I put in next. Agreed discarding this Zebronics would set me back by $50 but then a lot more than that is at stake.

I am thinking of getting another new PSU along with my new mobo and I will look out for the models you have specified above. I hope that I can find them in the stores.

Can't believe I was so stupid to go with Zebronics
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11 Jul 2016   #45
ignatzatsonic

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, 64-bit
 
 

Your dealer does carry Seasonic power supplies.

I guess you have an AMD FX-4100 processor. I don't know much about AMD, but that CPU is supposed to use the "AM3+" socket.

Here's a list of motherboards that have that socket, from the 4 major brands: Asus, MSI, Asrock, and Gigabyte.

AMD FX-4100 3.6GHz Quad-Core OEM/Tray Processor Compatible Motherboards - PCPartPicker

Pick out 2 or 3 in your price range and see if you can find them at your dealer.

The web site in your link is poorly designed and difficult to search, so I'm not going to do it. You do it, pick out a few candidates, and post the specific links to each candidate. Look for the features you need---type and number of USB ports, RAM slots, etc. You may have to do some of your research at the motherboard manufacturer's web site if the dealer's description doesn't give you enough info.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Jul 2016   #46
westom

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by probuddha View Post
Agreed that the new PSU could be a dud but when the system was checked with another PSU, it gave the same results
So we can rule out the PSU to be the culprit here
A perfectly good PSU can act defective in an otherwise good system. A bad PSU can actually boot and run a system. Reality was explained multiple times. Many assume a defect and a failure always coincide. They don't. A defect can exist and a computer still boots. A good part can act defective in an otherwise good system. Examples of why shotgunning creates confusion.

Defects can exist in multiple parts. Swap any one defective part and that computer still acts defective. Shotgunning only removes all defects when an entire computer is replaced by a new one. Another example of why shotgunning creates confusion.

Shotgunning is why so much confusion exists; why this simple problem was not solved tens of posts ago. You do not even know if a PSU is good. You only speculated it might be good.

Suddenly want to replace a PSU? How did that PSU go from 'defintively good' to 'definitely bad'? Speculation created all conclusions. Shotgunning creates confusion.

Why is a power controller doing what it is doing? After so many recommendations, you still do not know why a power controller is not powering the system? How many recommendations exist without even discussing that power controller? If a power controller creates your symptoms, then this makes sense: learn what that controller is doing and what its inputs are. That means numbers from a meter.

Without meter numbers, every conclusion (ie PSU is good) is only speculation. Since both supplies did not work in the system, then that proves both supplies are good? How is that an informed conclusion?

If a component is burned open, then numbers identified that defect long ago. He does not know how to use a meter. So he fears it. Another who knows of a power controller contradicts him. Who do you believe? The electrically naive who fears a meter or someone who was designing this stuff even before PCs existed?

No direct relationship exists between a 'failure' and a 'defect'. A defect can exist and a system does not fail. A defect can exist and a system does fail. Good parts can be put into a system and that system still fails. Good parts can be put into a system and that system works. Five pages of posts. Not one 'definitively known' part is identified. Everything remains subjective. Even the shop lied about short circuits and other mumbo jumbo - since he did not use a meter.

PSUs with poor reputations only work 99.1% of the time. PSUs with great reputations work 99.8% of the time. What does reputation of 10,000 other PSUs say about yours? Nothing. What matters is what your one PSU does. Without numbers from a meter, then nobody can honestly recommend binning or preserving that one PSU. Any recommendation without numbers is wild speculation. That means specification numbers. Any recommendation based in reputation is more speculation. Confusion abounds. Too many do not know how a computer works - will not even discuss a power controller. So they recommend subjectively, without numbers, and invent fear of a meter.

All this would have been resolved days ago had a meter and requested instructions been used. Why did the shop not identify a defect? He did not use a meter. He might have created more damage. Why make his mistake?

'Dirtiest' power comes from a UPS in battery backup mode. Power so 'dirty' as to be potentially harmful to motorized appliances. And ideal power for every computer. Best protection at a computer is already inside - to even make 'dirty' UPS power irrelevant. Your concern is an anomaly that can overwhelm that superior protection. Anomaly is only averted by something connected low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) to single point earth ground. Then robust protection inside a computer (and all other appliances) is not overwhelmed. Then even a surge protector and UPS is protected. This superior solution costs less money. And is the only solution always found in any facility that cannot have damage.

UPS does not and does not claim to avert hardware damage. To say more requires knowledge of what specifically was damaged. That remains unknown. The shop may have accidentally shorted something. Of course he smelled something burning and you did not. A UPS also would not avert that damage.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Jul 2016   #47
Mellon Head

Win 7 Pro x64/Win 10 Pro x64 dual boot
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by westom View Post
Suddenly want to replace a PSU? How did that PSU go from 'defintively good' to 'definitely bad'? Speculation created all conclusions. Shotgunning creates confusion.
It went definitively bad because smoke came out of it, or haven't you been reading? The question here is whether the burned PSU did damage to the motherboard.

Quote:
Why is a power controller doing what it is doing? After so many recommendations, you still do not know why a power controller is not powering the system? How many recommendations exist without even discussing that power controller? If a power controller creates your symptoms, then this makes sense: learn what that controller is doing and what its inputs are. That means numbers from a meter.
What power controller? And are you suggesting that the OP get down to the board level and start measuring components? I think that's a little beyond anyone without some technical training.

Quote:
Without meter numbers, every conclusion (ie PSU is good) is only speculation. Since both supplies did not work in the system, then that proves both supplies are good? How is that an informed conclusion?
It's not an informed conclusion, it's a reasonable assumption, based on the available facts. It's clear by now that the OP doesn't have a meter, or doesn't know how to use one to troubleshoot the problem. It's not outside the realm of possibility that the two replacement supplies are faulty, but given the nature of the failure of the first supply, it's reasonable to suspect that the damage was not confined to the supply, particularly since the repair shop smelled burned components on the motherboard. A reasonable conclusion in this case is that the motherboard was affected due to those burned components.

Quote:
PSUs with poor reputations only work 99.1% of the time. PSUs with great reputations work 99.8% of the time.
Please quote a source for this.

Quote:
'Dirtiest' power comes from a UPS in battery backup mode.
Sorry, but this is flat out wrong. A battery is one of the best voltage ripple filters that there is. Again, please quote a source for this assertion.

Quote:
UPS does not and does not claim to avert hardware damage.
A UPS with surge protection will mitigate damage, not completely avert it. But you have a better chance of surviving a surge with one than without.

Quote:
Of course he smelled something burning and you did not. A UPS also would not avert that damage.
We do not know why the OP's original PSU failed, just that it did. It may have been a faulty component, or a surge. It has nothing to do with a UPS because, as I understand it, the OP didn't have a UPS/surge protector at the time of the failure.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Jul 2016   #48
townsbg

Windows 7 pro 64-bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by westom View Post
A perfectly good PSU can act defective in an otherwise good system. A bad PSU can actually boot and run a system. Reality was explained multiple times. Many assume a defect and a failure always coincide. They don't. A defect can exist and a computer still boots.
I agree. I once had a secondary drive that kept going out to the point that the manufacturer was confused. It turned out to be a bad PSU that was killing it even though the computer was booting and otherwise running fine. Now I agree that a brand new power supply would likely not cause any problems but we can't rule it out. Motherboards just don't burn. With age the capacitors might go bad but why else might a motherboard scorch other than a bad power supply? Possibly a spike that the PSU can't handle.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
11 Jul 2016   #49
westom

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Mellon Head View Post
What power controller? And are you suggesting that the OP get down to the board level and start measuring components? I think that's a little beyond anyone without some technical training.
Point demonstrated by his post. Every computer has a power controller. He never heard of it? Those educated by hearsay, speculation, and advertising would not know of that controller. That processor monitors many inputs - including a front panel button. Based upon how long that button is pressed, a controller makes decisions - including if a PSU should power on or off. Anyone with basic computer knowledge knows about this controller and many other functions are in a power 'system'.

Only the naive assume a PSU is the entire power 'system'. The naive never learn of that controller. May even deny it. Then post subjective and bogus recommendations - mostly promoted by hearsay and advertising. Where did he once post a number? Never. That is how politicians spin lies and naive computer assemblers promote myths. No numbers.

Power controller decides when a PSU powers on or powers off. It even decides if the CPU is permitted to operate. Why is that relevant to the OP's symptoms? This was described repeatedly and earlier. An engineer who designed this stuff even before PC existed has posted facts that contradict what a majority believe. Who knows? The majority or a minority who actually do this stuff?

Everyone can know what that power controller is doing. A solution (how to know) was posted. And denied by many who *know* that controller does not exist; who did not first learn how a computer really works. Some deny due to fear. One foolishly assumed a PSU would be measured when unloaded - not connected its power supply 'system'. He could not bother to first reasd 'requested instructions'. He assumed. That is sufficient to know.

Reality should have been obvious. He does not know what existed even in the original IBM PC.

Reality, from someone who did this stuff before PC even existed, was posted. Since both supplies did not work, then that proves both supplies are good? How is that an informed conclusion? Classic junk science reasoning. How do we know? No numbers were posted. Can I be any more blunt?

A defective power system can make any other part (ie PSU) act defective. Long before suspecting any part, many components in a power system must first be confirmed. Including the power controller. That means numbers from a meter. Had those numbers been posted many days ago, then many component of the power system are known as good or defective - without doubt - without speculation. Then the problem was solved days ago.

This applies to everything in life. Any scam artist or wacko extremist can make subjective claims. Honest claims *always* come with perspective - that means numbers. Does that say every reply with numbers is honest? Of course not. But dishonest replies with numbers are quickly exposed. So the naive avoid all numbers.

Some do not even know every computer has a power controller. It decides when a computer powers on and when it powers off. This controller even decides when a CPU is permitted to execute the BIOS. How many discussed this hardware function that originally existed even in the original IBM PC? A comment that says how many *know* without first learning facts.

First a PSU was good because another "known good" PSU did the same failure. Later, wild speculation considered replacing an assumed 'defective' supply. Using what the naive use: reputation. Informed replies as based in numbers. Stated again because that reality separates hearsay and wild speculation from the minority who actually know how hardware works.

Define was how to have an answer immediately: a meter, some requested instruction, and minutes of labor. Only then can the informed post useful facts.


Meanwhile , dirtiest power comes from a UPS in battery backup mode. That 'dirtiest' power is irrelevant due to robust protection already inside every PC and all other electronics. If he knew otherwise, then manufacturer spec numbers were posted. He cannot. Hearsay, advertising, and speculation fear numbers. He does not post %THD numbers because he does not know what that spec number means. Somehow speculation and advertising is sufficient to be an expert - numbers be damned.

UPS is temporary and 'dirty' power so that unsaved data can be saved. It does not even claim hardware protection. That hardware protection is a classic urban myth.

Repeatedly explained was how to have a useful answer four pages ago. His problem exists due to hearsay. He ignores what was well understood even 40 years ago. Many fear numbers. Why? It is a meter. So it must be too complicated - even though junior high school science students use it? Another example of fear based only in wild speculation and hearsay.
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11 Jul 2016   #50
ignatzatsonic

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, 64-bit
 
 

My kingdom for the "ignore" function.
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 PSU went up in smoke. New PSU won't boot PC




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