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Windows 7: Is my PSU Dying?

18 Sep 2016   #11
ICIT2LOL

Desk1 7 Home Prem / Desk2 10 Pro / Main lap Asus ROG 10 Pro 2 laptop Toshiba 7 Pro Asus P2520 7 & 10
 
 

Quote:
Sorry to say, but you are wasting your thermal compound. As air, or any other gas, is a terrible thermal conductor, thermal compound are used to remove all air between the CPU and the heat sink. The thin it is, the better is the heat conduction between CPU and the heat sink
So true the compound is intended to fill in the microsocopic depressions and scratches left by the manufacturing surface.

My own personal way of applying it is to clean the two surfaces then prepare with the Arctic Silver products here (a cleaner and a preparation solution) Arctic Silver Incorporated - ArctiClean then apply the Arctic Silver compound Arctic Silver Incorporated - Arctic Silver 5 with my index finger covered with a vinyl glove so that the compound is slightly warmed and thinly and evenly spread onto each surface and into the microscopic faults using a circular motion this avoids contaminating the surfaces with anything from a spreader or bare fingers - then apply a rice grain sized spot of Arctic Silver compound in the centre of the CPU surface and assemble the cooling system. The heat generated from the CPU powering up then "bleeds" that spot of compound across the two surfaces.

Have used this method for years and have had no issues. The Arctic Silver stuff may not be the cheapest but I believe it to be the best because of the silver content which is the most efficient metal at conducting thermal energy.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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18 Sep 2016   #12
westom

 
 

Let's discuss what thermal compound does. Most heat transfers through the lowest thermal resistance - direct 'CPU to heatsink' interface. Some microscopic holes (air) exist. Thermal compound fills microscopic holes and must not interfere with a 'CPU to heatsink' interface. That means using least amount of thermal compound. Less is always better than more.

Thermal compound has higher thermal resistance. But is more conductive than air. Once that compound is inside those holes, then heat transfers through thermal compound - not air. That compound (and its thermal resistance) does not change even decades later.

Meanwhile, if thermal compound leaks out to edges, then it can get on electrical conductors. That can cause electrical problems; intermittent electrical failures. Just another reason why replacing thermal compound is ill advised. And why thermal compound should never spread out to the edges of a CPU or heatsink.

The naive fear dry thermal compound. Wet or dry, that compound still is making the same connection from CPU to heatsink in microscopic holes. Wet or dry makes no difference.

If a heatsink is properly designed and selected using a 'degree C per watt' parameter, then heatsink alone (no thermal compound) will conduct sufficient heat. Adding thermal compound will lower CPU temperatures by single digit degrees. Just another reason why so much 'hype' associated with thermal compound is bogus.

If anyone says something different, then he must include parameters - numbers. No specifications is a first indication that a recommendation has no credibility.

BTW Arctic Silver is no better and may be worse than thermal compounds from heatsink manufacturers. Arctic Silver is only recommended because feelings created by advertising causes consumers to not first learn spec numbers. Best thermal compound comes from other respected manufacturers who make heatsinks, have been doing this stuff for generations, and also make same even for military products. These include names such as Aavid and Wakefield.

So what is the CPU? AMD or Intel?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
18 Sep 2016   #13
Megahertz07

Windows 7 HP
 
 

When I get a new heat sink, I polish it till it's reflecting as a mirror. I fist use a 600 water sand paper and then a polishing paste. That insure that all the microsocopic depressions and scratches left by the manufacturing surface are eliminated.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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18 Sep 2016   #14
ICIT2LOL

Desk1 7 Home Prem / Desk2 10 Pro / Main lap Asus ROG 10 Pro 2 laptop Toshiba 7 Pro Asus P2520 7 & 10
 
 

Yes they call that lapping but it still will not get the tiniest of imperfections out of any metal surface. On the issue of Arctic Silver it is as good as any other and from numerous discussions on this site about compounds the result is there is no ideal one. There has never been any agreement on this topic since I have been a member and I have read of some truly peculiar ways of applying compound. There are those really expensive metallic compounds that can be used only once but out of my price range I am afraid.

One has to remember that the heat produced by the silicon chip is transferred through a much smaller surface area to the heat spreader and thereby it is down to the transferring properties of that heat spreader to dissipate that heat to the cooler surface. I do have many older CPU's I have taken out that have pure copper heat spreaders but can you imagine for one minute they will revert back to that material when they can produce heat spreaders that have a far less efficient transfer rated material because of the cost??

Again this is a very well worn topic and there will never be any agreement on what is best and what is not.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
19 Sep 2016   #15
westom

 
 

Lapping, as noted, will not get the tiniest imperfections out. Worse, if you flatten that surface, then thermal resistance across a 'CPU to heatsink' interface will increase. Most all heat transfers at the center of the CPU.

There will never be agreement because so many need subjective (ambiguous) answers. So many know by ignoring all spec numbers. Separate unreliable answers from the informed using one simple rule. The only inforrmed (honest) answers provide perspective - provide numbers. For example the conductivity of that thermal compound must be provided. Thermal resistance is discussed. The heatsink's degree C per watt number is known. Heatsink must have been machined so that thermal compound only results in single digit degree temperature reduction. Without numbers, then most anything can be claimed.

Is it an AMD or Intel CPU?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
19 Sep 2016   #16
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

Of course their are many compounds used and many methods used also. Their are all kinds of test done and charts and graphs all over the net.
Thorough the years many of us have tried many compounds and methods.

Myself, I have never found much temp difference in compounds if they are applied properly.
All lapping did for me was get my 4 cores to run temps closer to each other. Which is good.
No I did not keep all the specs on the changes so I could quote them here.

For me and I believe for 99.9% of users this will would as good as any and is what I use.

Arctic Silver® 5

This little tutorial method will work just great.
Just pick what brand of cpu you have and then which exact cpu you are using.

Arctic Silver Incorporated - Route to Product Instructions for Arctic Silver 5

If done correctly and with the proper mounting of a proper working cooler you still have a heat problem, it lies somewhere else.

The system in (My System Specs) get the compound changed about once a year because that is when I flush the cooling system. Can't hurt.

My older system with a AIO liquid cooler I change the compound about ever two years.
But not because it is running with a temp problem. It's more like a what the hell, why not. Can't hurt.

If I found a new compound that worked a lot better than Arctic Silver® 5 I would use it. The hell with the cost.
With 14 fans, 2 radiators and 2 pumps what's another few dollars for a better compound. Compound is about the cheapest thing one can buy to improve cooling.

I also use Arctic Silver 5 on my air cooled video card in my older system.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
19 Sep 2016   #17
ICIT2LOL

Desk1 7 Home Prem / Desk2 10 Pro / Main lap Asus ROG 10 Pro 2 laptop Toshiba 7 Pro Asus P2520 7 & 10
 
 

Yep Layback as we both know this topic has been a hotly contested issue for many years and frankly is as monotonous as it always has been.

Like you I I have stuck with Arctic Silver using my method with no problems and in fact I have used just about all the brands there are except the melt in metallic one and they have included such things as diamond based and ceramic based compounds and as you and I know a lot of problems arise when people get sloppy when applying compound or simply have no idea of just what to do.

The other thing that comes to mind is of course a lot of the cooling can depend on how well the silicon chip is in contact inside the lid of the CPU (heatsink) and again there have been a lot of those who have tried de -lidding the CPU to renew the compound between the chip and the underside of that heatsink the manufacturer Intel or AMD have installed themselves and I have yet to hear that that method has made any appreciable improvement in the cooling of the CPU.

In fact gain the cooling has more to do with than just the compound such as the type of liquid used in many those liquid systems and the efficiency of the cooling rad in air cooled systems which usually being made of aluminium means that the heat transfer is just not that good. See this chart for silver copper and aluminium for example.
Thermal Conductivity of Metals
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 Sep 2016   #18
FerchogtX

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit Build 7600 / Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP3
 
 

Well... checked voltage numbers in HWinfo... everything seems normal... no abnormal numbers or anything according to the program and the examples you give me.

Also, there has been 6 days since the PC was cleaned and changed the thermal compund... nothing, nada... not even a tiny hiccup... I swear to God te weirdest things happen to me XD... I'll continue montoring the computer...

Thanks a lot for all your help, at least, it seems the PSU is not dying :P
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 Sep 2016   #19
westom

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by FerchogtX View Post
Well... checked voltage numbers in HWinfo... everything seems normal... no abnormal numbers or anything according to the program and the examples you give me.
Never short your help of information. What number do you call normal. HWinfo does not typically measure all voltages that can cause your symptoms. HWInfo is also dependent on a voltmeter that is not yet calibrated. All three are why those voltages must be measured with a meter. And why useful replies are only possible when actual numbers are posted.

Your numbers can meet what Icit2lol posted and still be reporting an obvious defect. He also did not list all relevant voltage numbers. Behavior of those voltages on power up is also relevant.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
23 Sep 2016   #20
ICIT2LOL

Desk1 7 Home Prem / Desk2 10 Pro / Main lap Asus ROG 10 Pro 2 laptop Toshiba 7 Pro Asus P2520 7 & 10
 
 

Yes I know westom but there is more info in that link with the HW Info stuff and yes I always recheck with a digital meter if I am still suspect of what HW is showing me - I just find it a really quick and useful tool and I think if you go through the components listings there is even more info than your average rocket scientist could understand - I know it is not the be all and end all.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 Is my PSU Dying?




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