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Windows 7: SSD Questions on New Computer

29 Sep 2016   #51
paulyjames

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
 
 

I will be heading to the repair shop tomorrow as today is pretty late already.


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29 Sep 2016   #52
ignatzatsonic

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, 64-bit
 
 

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Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by paulyjames View Post
Wait are you telling me that clean install basically means zero bloatware? But the clone probably contain bloatware? I do not like bloatware and most computers do come with it.





A clean install will contain Windows. Have I said that before?

Some people call Windows bloatware. Call it what you want.


The clone will contain whatever is on the original drive as of the moment the clone is done.

Have I said that before?

If that includes bloatware, bloatware is included. If that includes non-bloatware, non-bloatware would be included. If that includes Office or anti-virus, Office or anti-virus would be included. If that includes the secrets of the universe, that would be included. For the third or fourth time: an exact replica.



The clone/image thing. Let say i have a program installed in my ssd that in my old laptop called openoffice. Let say i had this program on my desktop. With the clone/image, this openoffice will appear on my desktop along with every single program that appeared on my desktop?

What was on the SSD at some earlier time means nothing. All of that stuff will go bye-bye, wiped out by the clone.

After the clone, the SSD will contain what was on the Dell drive as of the moment the clone was done. No more. No less. Nothing whatsoever to do with what was on the SSD yesterday or last week or when it was in an old laptop.


Or it will just appear when on the start menu?

The cloned SSD will appear as the C partition. Just as if it came from the Dell factory with the SSD and Windows 10 installed on it.

This original Dell drive is a hybrid drive with a spinning portion and a so-called "SSD" portion. It's up to your shop to know how to recognize that and deal with it in the cloning or imaging process. I've never used a hybrid drive, so that might pose complications. Talk to the shop about that.



Im using the dell xps now and windows 10 looks a lot different etc. But so far the laptop seems to be pretty good.

Yeah, Windows 10 looks different. Some people can't stand it. You better find out if you want to keep Windows 10 before you talk to the shop about anything.

So if doing clone, then my dell laptop will show the gb used similar to this plus a bit more for windows 10? If so, then 100 percent i will go clean install.

To repeat myself: a clone will use the same amount of space as the original.

If the current Windows 10 installation takes up X GB, the clone will take up X GB or very close to it. It's up to you to know what that is and whether or not it will fit on the SSD.

What about your warranty?

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29 Sep 2016   #53
ignatzatsonic

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, 64-bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by paulyjames View Post
I will be heading to the repair shop tomorrow as today is pretty late already.
I think that's foolish, but suit yourself.
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29 Sep 2016   #54
paulyjames

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
 
 

The warranty is with dell but i purchased it on ebay. Its dell new outlet. Feedback from the seller was 100 percent over thousands of feedback. I could have bought it off dell but the issue is they take a very long time to ship it. Thus if i had more time, i would have ordered it and configured it through dell then i would have the ssd and everything with it. However, do you know what ssds do Dell use though? There was a computer on ebay like this dell outlet new and even faster than this one and 256gb ssd. The only reason i didnt buy from that seller was b/c he had just over 100 feedback though it was 100 percent while this guy his feedback was 100 percent pretty much and over thousands. The other thing was i wasnt sure what ssd model is used. But if the person i bought it from had this model with the 256gb ssd, i would have bought that one and not worry about going to repair shop for any of this.


I was told warranty gets transferred to me. As of now, the laptop seems very nice.


Yes windows 10 looks different and unusual. With the information i have given you on my 2 laptops that went out... the sager and the asus, yes they both have those 25 number/letter codes on the sticker, that means i still have to buy a copy of windows 7 if i want to use on this laptop right? Well yes i would prefer windows 7 as i been using it since 2010 i believe. I actually used windows xp all the way till 2010 while most people already used 7. I actually wanted to stay with xp and asked online could i use xp instead and remove 7 and people said yes... but i should not do that and go with 7 because few ppl use xp and xp doesn't do anymore updates. Also isn't it true windows 7 won't be doing that much updates anymore or something similar? Thus it will be like windows xp when 7 was out for a while?


Also im aware even windows 8 came out a while back as well. I don't know much about this b/c i been using windows 7 since 2010 and like it. But i think i can try to adjust to 10. But wouldn't eventually people need to change to windows 10 in a few years etc? For example those people who didn't want to use windows 7 and stick to xp, how many people out there still use xp? Probably very little right? I also believe theres no updates at all with windows xp right?


Would i be buying a copy of windows 7 at the repair shop if this? The one reason i don't want to do this is eventually wouldn't 7 be like xp? Thats the issue here.
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29 Sep 2016   #55
ignatzatsonic

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, 64-bit
 
 

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Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by paulyjames View Post
The warranty is with dell but i purchased it on ebay...........However, do you know what ssds do Dell use though?.................I was told warranty gets transferred to me.

I don't know what drives Dell uses. It doesn't much matter.

You can do what you want. I'd contact Dell and ask if you have a warranty with Dell or with the seller or if the new SSD will invalidate anything.

You'd be nuts to believe what an eBay seller tells you--unless you enjoy surprises.



the sager and the asus, yes they both have those 25 number/letter codes on the sticker, that means i still have to buy a copy of windows 7 if i want to use on this laptop right?

Right. The Windows licenses on those old laptops can't be transferred to another machine.

Also isn't it true windows 7 won't be doing that much updates anymore or something similar?

Windows 7 will be in extended support until Jan 2020. Updates will continue until then.


But wouldn't eventually people need to change to windows 10 in a few years etc?

After Jan 2020, the choices are:

Go to Windows 10

Stay with Windows 7 as long as your hardware supports it and disregard the lack of more updates.

Get rid of Windows entirely.


how many people out there still use xp?

Tens of millions. More than Vista. Less than 7.


I also believe theres no updates at all with windows xp right?

I think that's right. You'd have to decide if updates are critical.



Would i be buying a copy of windows 7 at the repair shop if this?

You can buy Windows 7 in several places. If you buy it from the shop, you don't know exactly what type of license you might be getting. OEM? System Builder? Counterfeit? I'd be worried about buying a license from a shop.

For that matter, I'd be concerned about the shop doing the proper "transfer" of your existing license over to a clean install. I'm not sure exactly how that works as I don't use 10. A "clone" or "image" should not have any issues when moved to the SSD, but if you ask the shop to do a clean install, there might be room for them to do something shady that would cause you problems down the road. I'm not sure, but I would be concerned.

That's why I'd personally do the clean install and hard drive swap myself.

But you can't do that and so you may be open to license trickery. It all depends on the shop and I don't have the slightest idea whether they are honest or if they should be sentenced to spend 2 to 14 years in the electrical chair. That's all for you to judge.

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29 Sep 2016   #56
paulyjames

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
 
 

Hi thanks for the very long response. I had thought it was possible to use another windows 7 key on this dell laptop since i dont use the other one anymore. About the ebay... yes i know what you mean by that. He sells new dell outlet and refurbished though so not all of them are new dell outlet. At the moment from using this laptop, it seems fine. also dont most people buy new laptops on ebay as oppose to say directly? So it probably isnt that bad? I would not buy any refurbished though but the fact that his feedback was pretty much perfect, well i dont mind it.


Yes i would figure more people use xp as oppose to vista. I have tried vista before and i disliked it very much. I actually like XP more than 7. Thus if i could still use xp now, well i use xp.


Last few questions. If i buy windows 7 online, how fast do i typically receive the key? So if i do this route, then i get the key, then bring that key with me to the repair shop and then have the guy install windows 7? Can you explain what you mean there might be room for something shady with clean install? Like they might put something on it like virus etc or what do you mean by that? Or you mean a shady place might take my real windows 7 license and download the counterfeit or shady license? But this would be only if i ask them to install windows 7 as oppose to 10? Thus if i stick with 10, no issue? I'm leaning towards staying with 10 at the moment. Now if i don't have to buy a license for windows 7, well i think i might go with 7. Btw do you know most people who buy new laptops now... most of these computers are windows 10. How much percent of these people you think buy a copy of 7 instead?


I would also assume most people want clean install as oppose to clone? Im bit confused here. The person at the repair shop i go to is very good with computers based on my experience and he is the only person i go to here when im here in the city. Yes if i can do it myself, i definitely would do it. He's a very trustful and smart guy.
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29 Sep 2016   #57
ignatzatsonic

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, 64-bit
 
 

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Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by paulyjames View Post
Hi thanks for the very long response. I had thought it was possible to use another windows 7 key on this dell laptop since i dont use the other one anymore.

Windows "retail" licenses are transferable to another machine. Any other type of license is not.

If you bought those old machines with Windows 7 already installed on them, there is virtually no chance they are "retail".

If you separately bought Windows licenses for those old machines, there is some chance they are retail.

The Win 10 license on your new machine won't be retail either. You can't transfer it to some other machine. To another hard drive, yes; but not to another laptop or PC. The last I heard, Microsoft licensing terms still say that is a no-no.

Two or three years ago, you could still buy a "retail" Windows 7 license. They are almost impossible to find now.


also dont most people buy new laptops on ebay as oppose to say directly?


I would seriously doubt that. I'd say direct would be first and somewhere like Amazon would be second. Ebay is just known to be risky. You took a chance. Maybe it works out.



Last few questions. If i buy windows 7 online, how fast do i typically receive the key?



I suppose that depends on the source. I've never done it. You'd wait a long time for a thief.

You would need more than a Product Key. You need the installation media (disc or USB flash drive) or a way to download the installation files and put those files on a bootable disc or USB flash drive.

Do you have the knowledge to download and burn to a DVD or put the files on a bootable flash drive? If not, you'd need to buy a version that is already on a disc or USB flash drive.

I probably would not buy it from anyone but Newegg. Probably not Amazon. Definitely not eBay.

There are sources for the Product Key only, but I would not trust them.

Anyone can download Windows 7 from Microsoft, but you still need the key to activate it and the knowledge to get the download onto a disc or flash drive.

But go with 10 if you like it.



So if i do this route, then i get the key, then bring that key with me to the repair shop and then have the guy install windows 7?

Again, I wouldn't walk in there with just a key. You don't know anything about the validity of that key. It could seem to "work" and you find out 5 months later that Microsoft says it's not a valid key.

If I were you and I wanted 7, I'd do one of the following:

1: buy a Windows 7 installation disk or USB flash drive version from Newegg to avoid any worries about the validity of the license. Take that disk with you to the shop and tell the shop to install 7 from that disk, not from anything else he might have laying around.

or

2: Do the same as 1, but instead just have the shop swap the drive and nothing more. Take it home and do the installation yourself.

or

3: Let the shop do it all. Rely on his key and his sources for Windows. Pay him for Windows. This is a poor third choice but you may have to take it due to your lack of knowledge and you may be willing to take it because of your trust in this guy.



Can you explain what you mean there might be room for something shady with clean install?

I was referring to Windows 10 only. Windows 10 does not have that Product Key sticker like your old machines. I'm not sure exactly what you are faced with when swapping drives on a new machine. Maybe it's completely foolproof and painless and not subject to being shady. But I don't know the details of that.

Like they might put something on it like virus etc or what do you mean by that? Or you mean a shady place might take my real windows 7 license and download the counterfeit or shady license?

Not a virus thing. Yeah, maybe a counterfeit or some type of license you did not expect that causes problems months later when a Microsoft server tells you that your installation is not valid. Who needs that? It happens when you don't know the pedigree of the license. Microsoft licensing is very complicated and full of gotchas.

This new machine has already left Dell and passed into the hands of somebody who resold it on eBay. Who knows what they may have done to it after it arrived from Dell?? That's the chance you took with eBay.

If you have problems and call Dell, Dell may tell you to go to hell and talk to the eBay guy.

Do you want to find that out tomorrow or in 6 months?

That's the chance you took with Ebay. You are relying on the eBay guy, for better or worse.





But this would be only if i ask them to install windows 7 as oppose to 10? Thus if i stick with 10, no issue?

If you clone 10 or image 10, there shouldn't be an issue.

If you clean install 10, I don't know how vulnerable you might be. Maybe he could install his own Win 10 and use your license for his own purposes. You have to figure that out and I can't help much about Win 10.

If you clean install 7 using a known good source like Newegg there wouldn't be a problem IF you knew the shop did in fact use the Windows 7 disc that you handed to them when you walked in the shop.



I'm leaning towards staying with 10 at the moment. Now if i don't have to buy a license for windows 7, well i think i might go with 7. Btw do you know most people who buy new laptops now... most of these computers are windows 10. How much percent of these people you think buy a copy of 7 instead?

I'd guess above 90% of people who buy a machine with Win 10 stay with it. Most don't swap hard drives. The people who don't want 10 are building their own machines or staying with old machines. A few would have retail licenses and can use the retail license on the new machine.

There is a possibility that your new Dell includes the right to "downgrade" to Windows 7 at no charge. I think some were sold like that. You'd have to talk to Dell about that.



I would also assume most people want clean install as oppose to clone? Im bit confused here. The person at the repair shop i go to is very good with computers based on my experience and he is the only person i go to here when im here in the city. Yes if i can do it myself, i definitely would do it. He's a very trustful and smart guy.

Clone/image or clean depends on the previously explained differences. I'd guess most do a clone because they want EVERYTHING on the old drive transferred to the new drive--rather than JUST Windows itself. Real techy types would want a clean install because they want to control what goes on the hard drive and don't want what you called "bloatware".

Imagine if your hard drive got full. What do most people do? They just "clone" to a new larger drive, even when they could do a clean install.

If you trust this guy implicitly and you are correct, you don't have any problems. Just tell him "clone" or "clean install" and live happily ever after. Buy Windows 7 from him directly if you want it.

You might ask him what type of Windows 7 license he can supply. He may say "OEM" or "System Builder" or who knows what. It's not likely he would say "retail".




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29 Sep 2016   #58
paulyjames

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
 
 

Hi there thanks very much for all this information.


Im 100 percent certain i downloaded the windows 7 iso file on my usb before. What you described i did this a while back I had made a copy of this a while back when i did a reinstall of windows 7 on my old asus laptop. I was told to download this a while back. Does it say setup or bootmgr? Im looking at my usb now but i recalled a while back i had this file there but not sure if its in the usb now. I might have deleted it. I recalled it was like 3.8gb if im not mistaken.


Okay im close to 100 percent certain now i want to stick with windows 10. I will ask him about i heard its either clean install or clone and ask him what he recommends. But i will tell him i dont need anything in my ssd so i don't need to back it up and see what he suggests. I would assume he goes with clean install. Also when he does this with my computer, the windows 10 key is there for him to input right? There is no sticker or anything like that on the dell xps 15 so im not sure where they key is... Will head there tomorrow.
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29 Sep 2016   #59
ignatzatsonic

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, 64-bit
 
 

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Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by paulyjames View Post


Im 100 percent certain i downloaded the windows 7 iso file on my usb before. What you described i did this a while back I had made a copy of this a while back when i did a reinstall of windows 7 on my old asus laptop. I was told to download this a while back. Does it say setup or bootmgr? Im looking at my usb now but i recalled a while back i had this file there but not sure if its in the usb now. I might have deleted it. I recalled it was like 3.8gb if im not mistaken.

I think it's somewhere around 3 GB for Windows 7, but it's NOT enough to just download the ISO and copy it somewhere. The "somewhere" has to be a bootable device, typically a USB flash drive. If that flash drive will not boot a PC by itself, it cannot be used to install Windows.





Okay im close to 100 percent certain now i want to stick with windows 10. I will ask him about i heard its either clean install or clone and ask him what he recommends.




Yeah, see what he says.

The choices are

1: clean install
2: transfer by cloning
3: transfer by imaging

With 2 and 3, you'd end up in the same spot. They are just different methods of transferring and he may prefer one over the other. That's fine. Either will work and either is OK if it works.


But i will tell him i dont need anything in my ssd so i don't need to back it up and see what he suggests.

Whatever is now on the SSD will be lost, so yeah tell him you are OK with that.


I would assume he goes with clean install.

He should not make that choice.

You should---based on what you've previously learned in this thread about the differences. If you want the stuff Dell put on the laptop, you don't want a clean install.



Also when he does this with my computer, the windows 10 key is there for him to input right? There is no sticker or anything like that on the dell xps 15 so im not sure where they key is

Yeah, there is no sticker. I think it's in the BIOS somewhere and the activation is all done electronically without anyone manually entering a key at all.

You need to talk to him about that. If there is a key in the BIOS and it's readable, have him write it out on a piece of paper for you. I'm not sure it is readable.

Have you already "activated" the new laptop? If so, tell him that.

Write down a list of stuff you need answers to and get him to answer all questions.

What are you going to do if the hard drive (the SSD) drops dead next Wednesday?

When you go to pick it up, have him start it up and prove to you that Windows is activated. Have him reboot it a time or two so you understand the startup/shutdown procedure. Open Explorer so you can see the size occupied on the SSD and have some confidence that all is well.


I would leave the old hard drive as is in case you have to return the laptop to Dell months from now.
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30 Sep 2016   #60
paulyjames

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit
 
 

Hey man thanks very much for answering all my questions. Yea the windows 7 file is from my usb. I had back then used it to reinstall windows 7 on asus. But not sure if that is still on my usb.


Well the laptop right now is fine and very fast. Of course its because i didnt download anything much. I just downloaded chrome and a few other things like avast. But yes i rather he remove the things Dell put on it. I took a look at the description of my laptop on ebay. Basically only thing it had was a trial version of microsoft office 365 and thats all. So no big deal.


Yes i will ask him about the sticker. Im pretty certain hes well aware of all these things though.


When you say did i activated the new laptop... im assuming the answer to this is yes. I did type my name on it and all those things. I installed few programs and using windows 10 and used chrome to browse websites. So yes.... i activated the new laptop?


Well the ssd should be fine i believe. I will ask him if theres a way for him to test my ssd. But last time when i was there, my other ssd from my asus, i asked him hey does it look okay, he said he could tell just by looking at it... its fine.


Yes he will boot computer up to show me etc. Yes i definitely will take a look at the size occupied on the ssd.
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