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Windows 7: Question about HDD's

1 Week Ago   #21
Itaregid

Windows 10 Professional 64-bit
 
 

Quote:
Did you even bother to do the research I suggested? Just because there are no formal "white papers", etc. doesn't mean the advice given to reduce the page file (not disable it; you still aren't paying attention) is not good.
YES!!!!!!! I have researched it over and over again! It is clear you have not or else you would be able find and provide that research to back your claims. BUT YOU CANNOT because IT DOES NOT EXIST!!!!!

You are claiming because noting reports it is not good, it must be okay! Bull feathers. By that logic, unicorns must exist because no one has proven they don't!

Show us where reducing the PF file IS good!

And I am paying attention. Just because you did not say "disable", others did and often do. The point is the same - there is NO valid reason to reduce (or delete) the PF except when critically low on disk space. And even then, that is just a Band-Aid fix until space is freed or more space is bought.

Quote:
Also, and again you weren't paying attention, the purpose of reducing the PF on SSDs (there is need to do so on HDDs, even if booting from one) is to reduce unnecessary, life reducing writes to an SSD
Oh, this is sad. You are not doing your homework and it is clear you are stuck in the past. Limited writes was a limitation of first generation SSDs, not todays SSDs!

SSDs are ideally suited for Page Files.
See Support and Q&A for Solid-State Drives and scroll down to, "Frequently Asked Questions, Should the pagefile be placed on SSDs?" While the article is getting old, it still applies - even more so now since wear problems of early generation SSDs are no longer a problem.


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1 Week Ago   #22
jack3

Win 7 Pro x86
 
 

try this
Get small old drive put win 7 on it and fill it with big files. Copy something over, make sure these around 900mb free left, re boot and see what happens - pagefile resizing maybe? Windows will resize this way it has to or 1gb page will not fit into less

Experiment try it - test it

Microsoft do recommend to move page from boot drive to any other to help performance

x86 is 4gb max and registers less - regardless of other stuff you can only fit 4gb

If ssd dies it dead no recovery its broken EOL

Today drives are cheap for larger sizes and easy have a 2nd drive, so a lot of early problems are solved just by capacity of drives

Really? How many battery operated computers have you seen that use 3.5" drives?
I have about 250, many now being swapped for laptop but all the same and from car battery
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1 Week Ago   #23
Itaregid

Windows 10 Professional 64-bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jack3
Microsoft do recommend to move page from boot drive to any other to help performance
No they don't. If you believe so, please show us a link. I would love to read it, otherwise, please don't make claims you cannot support. This is a technical forum full of technically oriented people. Some of us want to see the evidence.

I don't expect you to believe me just because I say so (that's why I put those links to supporting evidence above). So please don't expect us to believe you just because you say so.

Microsoft does say say you CAN move the PF to another drive if space is a concern, but you will lose the ability to save crash dump files should the system crash. And they do NOT and never have recommended you move to a secondary drive for performance (unless the secondary drive is a faster drive, such as HD for boot, SSD for secondary). They also say you can have it on both drives for performance, but Windows will always use the PF on the faster disk first, if space allows. And note those are multiple physical drives, not partitions on the same drive. It makes no sense to have multiple PFs on multiple partitions on the same disk.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jack3
x86 is 4gb max and registers less - regardless of other stuff you can only fit 4gb
Irrelevant! That has nothing to do with reducing or disabling the PF. That 4GB limit does not apply to "virtual memory", only physical.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jack3
If ssd dies it dead no recovery its broken EOL
Irrelevant! That has nothing to do with this discussion, or PFs. And while HDs typically die slowly and give advance warning of impending doom, they can and do totally die suddenly too. Yes, you can take it to professional forensic recovery services, but those are extremely expensive with no guarantee for success. But again irrelevant because if there is no recovery option, the USER failed to keep viable backups - necessary regardless drive used. But to your point, the latest SSDs are more reliable than HDs anyway. That's one reason many are now coming with 10 year warranties.

Quote:
try this
Sorry, but no! I've got years knowing what happens when the boot disk fills up and Windows does NOT "reset" and I note "reset" (not resize) is what you claimed earlier. That said, disk space is not a factor Windows uses when configuring the PF. So it does not resize the PF just because disk space is limited. HOWEVER, PF can be limited because free disk space is limited. That is, if it cannot expand, it won't.
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6 Days Ago   #24
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

I have never, I say again never heard or read anything from Microsoft that page filing should be anywhere except on the Windows 7 installation "C" partition.

Many people do many things to try and compensate for to small of SSD.
To me the only good option after normal moving data to a another drive is just get a bigger SSD.
Their are a few tricks like not using hibernation but those types of tricks are not a lot of help.
These tricks will give you time to get a larger SSD.

Jack
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6 Days Ago   #25
jack3

Win 7 Pro x86
 
 

As I said, try what I have said, once you have to can confirm or say otherwise, been doing these things happy for years with little fall out

Each to there own, something on the net does not mean its correct or the way to go, we all have working practice, experiences and what we do in our life, its good to discuss and share and help

SSD we used for page and it did little except die, this was couple years back in

See here: taken from social.technet.microsoft.com good call on the dumps etc !

how to relocate Pagefile.sys to another drive letter

or
Best Practices for Page File and Minimum Drive Size for OS Partition on Windows Servers - TechNet Articles - United States (English) - TechNet Wiki
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6 Days Ago   #26
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

I see no where that Windows 7 was referred to.


how to relocate Pagefile.sys to another drive letter

[QUOTE]I have SQL 2008 R2 and SharePoint 2010 installed on separate server but I am having a low disk space issue related to my windows 2008R2. [/QUOTE]
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6 Days Ago   #27
Itaregid

Windows 10 Professional 64-bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jack3
something on the net does not mean its correct or the way to go
Sorry and I sincerely mean no respect, but that's always the "cop-out excuse" used when someone cannot find any evidence to support their claims.

You are absolutely correct to suggest and wise to assume the Internet is full inaccuracies. But that's why you do careful research and hit the reputable sources. If you get your information from another forum poster, then no, that does not make it official. But when from recognized experts (as in more than one) in the field (Ed Bott) and the horse's mouth (Microsoft) in the case of the 2 links I provided (see more below), taken with the fact you have found absolutely no supporting evidence from any expert source to the contrary, that is pretty conclusive that there is no advantage to decreasing the PF size or disabling the PF (except when critically low on disk space as a temporary measure only).

Do you have advanced technical expertise, education and training in the computer sciences? In particular, are you a true expert in operating system memory management? Are you a master of "virtual memory" management? I've made a career of supporting IS/IT systems for over 40 years. My job, not just a hobby. I have multiple IS/IT degrees and certs in electronics, computing and networking systems. "No brag, just fact" as the saying goes and I sure don't kid myself into thinking I know more than the true experts and professionals at Microsoft.

The developers at Microsoft (and Linux, for that matter) are not fools or dummies. A page file gives the OS more choices and it knows how to make the right ones. The fact is, you need to have a PF if you want to get the most out of your RAM, even if you have gobs of RAM that's never fully utilized. The OS uses it for more than just dump files. So forcing the OS to put everything in RAM can actually be counterproductive.

I note if you use hibernation, disabling or restricting the PF size can cause adverse problems too as approx. 25-30% of RAM data is stored in the PF during hibernation. This could explain why your experiment yielded the results you saw - because an effective hibernation process was being crippled!

Quote:
SSD we used for page and it did little except die, this was couple years back in
So because an SSD died on you a few years ago you concluded the PF killed it and therefore PFs must never go on SSDs again??? I guess that spells doom for the ever increasing number of SSD only systems that will be under the Christmas tree this year and sold throughout the coming years ahead!

As for your links, with your first, what is the point? First, it just goes to a forum poster - not a recognized expert or Microsoft and second, as Layback Bear noted, it deals with a server running Windows Server 2008 R2. Not a typical client notebook or PC running a modern Windows OS.

And your second link is also about Windows Server. But did you even read it? NO WHERE does it mention reducing the size below 1.5 x RAM - with one exception. In fact, it even says with 16GB of RAM you should set the PF to 24GB. And if running SAP, 3 x RAM! That exception? When it mentions having 128GB of RAM installed, it says (their bold),
Quote:
limit the Page File size equal to 128 GB at least.
****
Again, don't believe me! Read for yourself! Here's more evidence to just leave the default PF settings alone:

An excellent article on Memory Management, The Out-of-Memory Syndrome, or: Why Do I Still Need a Pagefile?
Quote:
But removing the pagefile can actually make things worse. Reason: you are forcing the system to keep all private committed address space in RAM. And, sorry, but that’s a stupid way to use RAM.

If you don’t have a page file, then all private committed memory in every process, no matter how long ago accessed, no matter how long the process has been idle, has to stay in RAM—because there is no other place to keep the contents.

So for the vast majority of Windows systems, the advice is still the same: don’t remove your pagefile. If you have one and don’t need it, there is no cost. Having a pagefile will not “encourage” more paging.

...there’s still no benefit to removing the pagefile.
The How-To Geek: Understanding the Windows Pagefile and Why You Shouldn't Disable It (my bold added).
Quote:
The Bottom Line: Should You Disable It?

The vast majority of users should never disable the pagefile or mess with the pagefile settings—just let Windows deal with the pagefile and use the available RAM for file caching, processes, and Superfetch.
And to kick a dead horse, from Computer Hope,
Quote:
Question: Is it a good idea to change my Microsoft Windows page file size?

Answer: No.

Question: I have plenty of RAM, should I disable the page file?

Answer: No.
Now frankly, I think we've managed to run the OP's thread way OT and it is time to return control back to LoneGeek.
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6 Days Ago   #28
cornemuse

Windows 7 Home Premium bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by LoneGeek View Post
So how full is too full if that's possible?
I have multiple 1 T hdds, some of which have 2-3-4 MEGABYTES free space, they are strictly for data storage.
Too full (for me) is when I get a message there isnt enough room to copy (whatever) to the hdd.
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6 Days Ago   #29
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

I took a good slow read through this and found it understandable to people like me with only 3 brain cells.

The Out-of-Memory Syndrome, or: Why Do I Still Need a Pagefile? | Azius Blog

I noticed that Jamie Hanrahan runs in very good company and some how finds time to be a co-author of books.

Jamie Hanrahan's Books
Average rating: 5.0 · 1 rating · 0 reviews · 1 distinct work · Similar authors
Windows Internals, Part 1: ... Windows Internals, Part 1: User Mode
by Brian Catlin, Jamie Hanrahan, Mark Russinovich
4.37 avg rating — 111 ratings — 8 editions

It seem like Jamie Hangahan has had a little experience with computers and Windows.

I found a little background on Jamie Hanrahan.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamiehanrahan

For some one like me I think Jamie Hangahan would be called a expert.

I also at times try to read and understand Mark Russinovich but Mark gets way over my head very quickly and I get lost.

Jack
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