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Windows 7: 2x 4TB as RAID0, Unallocated space, GPT limits and initiliazing issues

30 May 2015   #11
gregrocker

 

Again, why exactly do you want RAID?

We see nothing but problems here with RAID - not one single good report in six years since Win7 beta, only one horror story after another.

It is not Redundant (the first letter of its name!) because most users lose all their data if they lose one drive. Why would anyone choose such a thing when there are now faster SSD drives?

So "because I want it" is not a good enough reason for deliberately choosing old dead technology which provides nothing but problems. The only reason I've heard that's understandable is working with huge files like video editing - but there are huge drives now.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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30 May 2015   #12
GokAy

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jumanji View Post
Hi Gokay, with IRST in, I am not sure it is a good proposition to go with Windows striping. Further he already has one RAID array created with IRST.

ASUS in its support site says, for creating a RAID refer to the manual bundled in motherboard support DVD that comes along with it. The OP has to check on it and will be better off going with the manufacturer's recommendation. His motherboard UEFI BIOS is tied with IRST.
Hey Jumanji,

I believe it shouldn't cause any problems, and doesn't hurt to try. Which one is better (BIOS or Windows) is not a definitive argument. The 4TB drives will be seen by BIOS just as like his SSD drives.

Only difference will be the other RAID0 array (2x1.5TB) will be seen as 1 drive in Disk Management, whereas the 2x4GB array would still be 2 drives (set as dynamic volume).

To be honest, he might as well create both arrays from within Windows (would give the ability to move them to another Windows PC as well if so needed). With BIOS raid if you change motherboard the raid information is lost and requires a rebuild of the arrays. Now, if he had a proper hardware raid card, then of course it would have been better.

2x 4TB as RAID0, Unallocated space, GPT limits and initiliazing issues-disk-management_all_drives.jpg

"We see nothing but problems here with RAID - not one single good report in six years since Win7 beta, only one horror story after another." - this is only partially true, I have been using raid since XP times (BIOS). Losing data is no different if you have a single disk and it fails. I have only been active in these forums for 1 months and haven't seen any failed RAID posts yet, but seen enough failed single drives. You should be backing up your drives/system/data whatever anyway, regardless of tech you use. Keyword is backup and enjoy better performance as long as it works! (I post my primitive copy-paste test whenever I see Greg bash on RAID ) Is a single disk even redundant in the first place? fail is a fail /discuss


My System SpecsSystem Spec
30 May 2015   #13
Layback Bear

Windows 7 Pro. 64/SP-1
 
 

I'm thinking that Greg and I are trying to understand is what the purpose of Raid 0 being used.

1. What reason does one want to use Raid 0?

2. Does one think it is some sort of data protection method and or some kind of proper backup?

3. Does one think Raid is some sort of giant advancement in computer speed?

Knowing the reasons and goals one expects once using Raid will help members give guidance.
I'm thinking this forums server uses Raid but their are reasons; they are needed as one can imagine.

Knowing what ones reasoning for using Raid 0 might give helping members suggestion on how to get the results one wants in a better fashion.

I have been reading post on this forum for a long time and don't don't remember reading any good results using Raid for what I call a normal user.
For years many used raid because hard drive were very small compared to todays hard drives. I'm talking about a long time ago, maybe 10 years ago and that is like forever in the computer world.

You can store on one of todays huge hard drives what years ago took a bank of hard drives. Raid had it's purpose for some users.
Now that we have UEIF and Bios also has changed things and has to be take into consideration.

Mixing UEIF and MBR Bios has got to be a bag of worms. Well it would be for me anyway.

Please don't think I have a huge amount of knowledge using Raid because I don't. What I have seen on forums is people wanting to use Raid for 10 year old reason.

We have many members that have or do work in Server Raid, Domain/network world that could give exact information and reasoning for Raid. Maybe one will drop by and give guidance.

Sfwul system specs tell us little to better understand thing.

Quote:
OS Windows 7 Ultimate x64
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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30 May 2015   #14
GokAy

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

Hey Bear, thanks for joining in. All experienced input is welcome.

The OP should answer those questions for his own case.

My answers would be:
1- Reason to use a RAID0 would be increased data read/write speed. Nothing else. With 2 disks the speed increase (in theory, as there are overhead cost in reality) would be 100%. This is how it works: You have 1GB of data to be written to the disk. The controller then splits them in two - writes one half to drive1 and the other half to drive2 simultaneously. The performance gain is increased if more disks are added to the RAID0 array.

2- One would need backups using RAID or not. Some RAID formats protect from service interruption in case of individual drive failures (but you need to replace failed ones ASAP) with some reduction in performance. How many failures you can afford depends on RAID implementation and number of drives. RAID0 would be lost when only one drive fails, regardless of number of drives used.

3- Nope, not a great increase in computer speed. Connected to answer 1, the catch is that access times may increase a bit with RAID so depending on the file size/sequential or random it may be slower with RAID0. Also, during such loading we are mostly waiting for data to be processed by CPU/RAM and hard disk activity is usually not that much.

I have a simple copy-paste test back in an earlier post. (I believe the single drive speed is problematic though, simple math shows it was 40-50 MB/s. It is a SATAII drive). All connected to same SATAIII controller, greens are SATAII, blacks are SATAIII drives).

To wrap it up, I believe RAID is not a monster to be avoided at all costs, it has it's uses and issues. One should consider them all.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
31 May 2015   #15
sfwul

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

To all - many many thanks for taking the time to get back on this so elaborately.
I will reply, however, please do allow me a bit of time as I will be out the rest of the day, so I will check on this tomorrow.
Please do note that the other RAID set (2x 2TB) results in a perfect 1 parition 3,6TB drive.
I assume that the unallocated space thing is the result of the 2x 4TB drives , resulting exactly twice as large 7,2TB
Guess it is a bit difficult for anybody out there to test this, i.e. almost no-one has 2 4TB drives 'available' for some testing.

Anyway, I'll get back on this.

In the meantime, pls see attached screenshot, fwiw.

Again thanks

-


Attached Thumbnails
2x 4TB as RAID0, Unallocated space, GPT limits and initiliazing issues-snagit-31052015-132413.png  
My System SpecsSystem Spec
31 May 2015   #16
GokAy

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

If you are asking about the reduced disk space, it is because manufacturers use 1000 as multiplier whereas in reality it should be 1024.

8TB -> 8.000/1024 GB -> 8.000.000/(1024x1024) MB -> 8.000.000.000/(1024x1024x1024) KB -> 8.000.000.000.000(1024x1024x1024x1024) Byte

The Byte calculation results in 7.27 TB. So the space is normal.

Maybe someone else can describe better.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Jun 2015   #17
sfwul

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
Again, why exactly do you want RAID?

We see nothing but problems here with RAID - not one single good report in six years since Win7 beta, only one horror story after another.

It is not Redundant (the first letter of its name!) because most users lose all their data if they lose one drive. Why would anyone choose such a thing when there are now faster SSD drives?

So "because I want it" is not a good enough reason for deliberately choosing old dead technology which provides nothing but problems. The only reason I've heard that's understandable is working with huge files like video editing - but there are huge drives now.
Am not sure about the 'problems': have had RAID0 for I don't know how many years. Actually I wasted an 2005 pc just now, it is still standing here.. It had RAID,the pc before that one also had RAID. One needs to have a good backup. I selected RAID for its performance. That aside it is also to avoid using up driveletters. Actually, when all external drives+USB thumbdrives+cardreader attached and partitions and encrypted containers opened well, on my previous pc all drivers were used. Really. I definitely needed USBDLM to manage all the driveletters.

When I attached my (new) all in one printer to the USB-port, I noticed that it took 2 driveletters.

Yes, I agree with you: whilst using SSD HDD-RAIDs may not play a big role anymore.

=
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Jun 2015   #18
jumanji

Windows 7 Home Premium 32 bit
 
 

To bring clarity to your issue "3) Windows Drive Management a large volume shows up as unallocated (about 1700GB..) It cannot be removed/formatted/resized whatever, even not using Paragon's Harddisk Manager Suite"

Please do the following.

1. Disconnect from the internet.

2. Pull out all USB devices Printers/Card Readers/ pen drives/external drives/ USB Hubs/ docks etc., (Yes, all USB ports should be clear except your USB mouse and keyboard)

3. Shut down and reboot.

4. Post the screenshot of Windows Disk Management. Now only your internal drives. Let us see whether you still get that unallocated space.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Jun 2015   #19
sfwul

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

@jumanji - hang on pls - I have to reply to your earlier posts - have some backlog as I was out yesterday afternoon.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Jun 2015   #20
jumanji

Windows 7 Home Premium 32 bit
 
 

In the light of what GokAy has stated in his post#16 - which is true, hats off to GoKay @GoKay, I shall offer you a Turkish coffee - you can put my post #8 on hold for the time being and do what is stated in post #18.

The unallocated space may be some other drive and you may have a drive letter collision. We have to check on it.
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 2x 4TB as RAID0, Unallocated space, GPT limits and initiliazing issues




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