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Windows 7: Classic Toolbars for Office 2010 ?


31 Jan 2014   #1

XP/7x32-x64/8x64
 
 
Classic Toolbars for Office 2010 ?

At 68 I am beyond playing with Lego for under 5s.
The ribbon (on Excel 2010) is so frustrating, I cannot find anything, and seriously, mouse-induced RSI is a "pain".
AutoCad for to many years has taken its toll on my shoulders and one wrist.
Fortunately AutoCad 2006 still delivers what I need and has keyboard shortcuts. + my addins have reduced mousing and clicking.

Excel problem
I have tried addintools Classic Toolbars for Office 2010 -- very disappointing, no customization.
UBit has the same problems.

Has anyone used or experienced "ToolbarToggle" ?
From "blurbs", TT is far more versatile (customizable) than addintools and ubit.
I am willing to $pend money on a decent program.

Can I use TT on standalone rigs, without internet connection. ?

There are whispers of instability of classic-style toolbars, but I wonder if that is the odd problem or opposition burley-for-the-naive-reader.

If I could stay with Excel 2003 I would, but several of my "addin" customers (all dinosaurs like me) are being forced onto Excel 2010.

Has anybody had any good/bad experiences with ToolbarToggle ?

My apologies for this thread if it is out of-line. I have tried other avenues (3 forums) plus 4 emails ...only to be met with deathly silence.

I would appreciate any comments, thank you

My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

01 Feb 2014   #2
Microsoft MVP

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

As it has been said:

Never too old to learn ... and that includes the Ribbon!

I have been developing Office Applications with VBA since Windows 3.1 and Office 4.2. I was used to the menu bar for 15+ years. When Office 2007 first introduce the Ribbon it was a huge change. Not because the Ribbon is bad. It is just different. I have lots of old habits from that no longer worked. The Ribbon did get some improvements in Office 010.

TIP: Keyboard shortcuts still work with the Ribbon. Press and release just the Alt key. The shortcuts keys will display on the Ribbon!

I had a project in Office 2010. I worked exclusively in Office 2010 for several weeks. I started creating custom Ribbons as I went. I even found some new features that really helped. I was very surprised when I went back to working in Office 2003 how much I missed Office 2010's Ribbon and other new features.


FWIW: Mouse-induced RSI is usually from poor environmentally ergonomics and lack of physical training not the software. Is your mouse and keyboard at the correct height? What about your chair? Do you do your stretching exercises before spending more that a few minutes at the keyboard/mouse?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Feb 2014   #3

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Being a flatulent geriatric myself, I can relate to the RSI issue. As one ages, the old body just wears out and all the stretching exercises in the world aren't always going to help. Fun things like arthritis also add to the overall experience.

I agree about never being to old to learn but, for most people, it gets harder as we age. That said, I took to the ribbon like a duck to water. Win 8 and 8.1 are the ones I can't wrap my senile old mind around very well. I also plan on sticking with Office 2010 until I replace Win 7 sometime in 2019 but that's mostly because I'm cheap and also think Office 2013 is ugly and boring looking. I love the so-called Black (more like gray) color scheme in 2010. Forget Office 365. 24/7 cloud accessibility is just too unreliable and expensive.

Thanks for the tip on using the alt key to display ribbon shortcuts. There is no way I would ever remember them.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.


01 Feb 2014   #4

XP/7x32-x64/8x64
 
 

Thanks HiTechCoach for your contribution,
Your experience equates to my time frame too. Although I am not qualified in IT.

The Ribbon !
In my opinion if something is broken fix it ... AND ... if it ain't broke, leave it alone.
It is not a state secret that MS could not copyright toolbars, so now they own the ribbon concept, that other ribbon users have to buy the rights for.
It is far easier to scan a list of words. And try sorting images into alphabetical order .
On my supermarket shopping list I don't draw images of -- apples, bananas, cucumbers, ladder, trampoline, lawn mower fuel, tennis racket, library books ... !
I write words.
Images/hieroglyphics are an individual interpretation/perception process too. I have more than dabbled in psychology.

At one stage in my life I was involved with Cuisenaire Rods created to be a better way of teaching basic "sums" (mathematics) to children. Using different lengths of colored wood to represent numeric values 1 to 10 (not binary 0 to 9). Cuisenaire was seen as the way of the future, until it was discovered kids could not do simple maths in their head, like adding and subtraction. It wasn't long before higher education had to introduce basic maths into their first year courses (Technology Colleges and Universities). Cuisenaire died a very quick death.

I have been running my own consultancy for 30+ years, a staff of 5, the reality is "time is money", the ribbon is slower because their are more hand movements with O-2010 than with O-2003. And the lost time while employees "get-used-to-it". And then the ribbons take up more screen real estate ... oh we need bigger monitors ... oh, the workstations need to be bigger to accommodate the monitors. $$$$$
-----
BUT ...
I do concede ... yep I said it!
Excel 2010 file-types leave Excel 2003 for dead. MS Word had it right in 2003.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by HiTechCoach
TIP: Keyboard shortcuts still work with the Ribbon. Press and release just the Alt key. The shortcuts keys will display on the Ribbon!
Good one... thank you!

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by HiTechCoach
I had a project in Office 2010. I worked exclusively in Office 2010 for several weeks. I started creating custom Ribbons as I went. I even found some new features that really helped. I was very surprised when I went back to working in Office 2003 how much I missed Office 2010's Ribbon and other new features.
One thing I don't miss in Excel 2003 is the amount of events/code to manage -- empty UI, wrong workbook, hide/show toolbars/menus etc..
Only this week while rewriting one of my templates XLTM, and deleting all the invalid-environment code is heart warming. (So separate developments for 2003 and post 2003)

The Ribbon is reality ... it is here ... and I have to work with it for the sake of my 30 year reputation.

Lets see if in 10 years time the ribbon ends in the same disdain as Office 2003 has today -- redundant. Nothing is forever.

RSI ... see my response to "Lady Fitzgerald"

If we meet on a dark stormy night I hope we are still friends

Regards,
Russell
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Feb 2014   #5

XP/7x32-x64/8x64
 
 

Thanks Lady Fitzgerald for your response,

".. flatulent geriatric ..."
AND
... your signature "No electrons were harmed by idiot sig writer making this sig

... you have made my week ...

RSI!
I agree with you on the aging process, as much as I want to deny it. Bits just don't work like they used to, even when I was 50.
My deteriorating body has been affected by radiation to my neck and head. Neck-shoulder muscles have adhered and my left side atrophied. Range of movement has been reduced.

Some may laugh but the future workforce is going to require older workers because of the declining availability of younger starters. So consideration to ergonomics will have to consider the older "reality".

Increasing the mouse speed on a 27" screen for Excel ribbon is a disaster in AutoCad.

Like you I have difficulty "accepting" some new looks. I think there is a fine line between pleasant interface and wasting resources rendering "isn't-this-exciting" bloat.

Thanks again for your thoughts

Russell
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Feb 2014   #6

XP/7x32-x64/8x64
 
 



Has anyone had any experiences with "ToolbarToggle" program ?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Feb 2014   #7

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by GrayGhost2 View Post
...It is far easier to scan a list of words. And try sorting images into alphabetical order .
On my supermarket shopping list I don't draw images of -- apples, bananas, cucumbers, ladder, trampoline, lawn mower fuel, tennis racket, library books ... !
I write words...
That sounds more like an argument against the UI formerly known as Metro. I do agree with you on lists, one reason why I detest the tiles of Win 8. The only images the ribbon uses are easy for me to recognize and are of the choices most commonly made. They are easier to see at a glance than having drop down menus for everything. The ribbon is also highly customizable to favor one's personal work flow. The dropdown menus are pretty much still available by clicking the arrow in the lower right corner of each box in the ribbon.

Btw, that's one versatile supermarket you shop at.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by GrayGhost2 View Post
...Images/hieroglyphics are an individual interpretation/perception process too. I have more than dabbled in psychology...
Same here. I have a B.S. in Psychology (and we all know what B.S. also means).

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by GrayGhost2 View Post
...At one stage in my life I was involved with Cuisenaire Rods created to be a better way of teaching basic "sums" (mathematics) to children. Using different lengths of colored wood to represent numeric values 1 to 10 (not binary 0 to 9). Cuisenaire was seen as the way of the future, until it was discovered kids could not do simple maths in their head, like adding and subtraction. It wasn't long before higher education had to introduce basic maths into their first year courses (Technology Colleges and Universities). Cuisenaire died a very quick death...
That reminds me of the New Math that was popular for a while in the sixties. That was another teaching theory that fortunately died quickly. I was exposed to it briefly in High School. I'm glad my children didn't have to deal with it (Math was never my strong suit anyway).

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by GrayGhost2 View Post
...I have been running my own consultancy for 30+ years, a staff of 5, the reality is "time is money", the ribbon is slower because their are more hand movements with O-2010 than with O-2003. And the lost time while employees "get-used-to-it". And then the ribbons take up more screen real estate ... oh we need bigger monitors ... oh, the workstations need to be bigger to accommodate the monitors. $$$$$...
Once I got used to the ribbon, which didn't take long at all, I actually found it to be a bit faster. The transition from Office 2002 to Office 2007 was about as painless as anything I've ever done. I don't feel I really lost any "productivity" while "adjusting" (I was freshly retired when I first got Office 2007 back in 2009).

I was already using a 22" monitor well before I got Office 2007. It ate up far less desk space than my old 17" CRT and I could have it in front of my face instead of off to one side (my neck really appreciated that!). The ribbon only takes up 1" on my monitor which I don't really miss. I can reduce zoom to 80% to get a full letter size page on the screen (two pages side by side, for that matter) and still read the text without eyestrain although I rarely do so. With the ribbon minimized, I gain only 9% zoom to get a full page onscreen (you are aware the ribbon can be minimized?). I personally feel any monitor under 22" is too small for anything other than some web surfing.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Feb 2014   #8

XP/7x32-x64/8x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald
Btw, that's one versatile supermarket you shop at.
My wife tells me (with a smirk) its the testosterone
(But between you and me, only, its the BS)
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Feb 2014   #9

Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by GrayGhost2 View Post
Thanks Lady Fitzgerald for your response,

".. flatulent geriatric ..."
AND
... your signature "No electrons were harmed by idiot sig writer making this sig

... you have made my week ... ...
Glad you enjoyed it!

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by GrayGhost2 View Post
...
RSI!
I agree with you on the aging process, as much as I want to deny it. Bits just don't work like they used to, even when I was 50.
My deteriorating body has been affected by radiation to my neck and head. Neck-shoulder muscles have adhered and my left side atrophied. Range of movement has been reduced...
My late 40s was when I peaked as far as physical condition was concerned. From 50 on, it's been a slow, downhill slide. The past few years, I've been dealing with adhesive capsulitis in both shoulders and hips, increasing feebleness, worsening allergies, and, recently, back trouble and something in my hip (other than the adhesive capsulitis) I need to get into a doctor about. Most of it is genetic; my "baby" sister is having similar problems (she recently retired) and Mama also had some of them. I've been legally handicapped since before I retired.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by GrayGhost2 View Post
...Some may laugh but the future workforce is going to require older workers because of the declining availability of younger starters. So consideration to ergonomics will have to consider the older "reality"...
Actually, many of the younger members of the workforce also have problems. It's not just age related, although age is a factor.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 Classic Toolbars for Office 2010 ?




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