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Windows 7: WLMM and DVD and aspect ratio

26 Aug 2010   #1

win7
 
 
WLMM and DVD and aspect ratio

Tried to import a video from a DV camcorder into windows livemovie maker, and burn to dvd..

First issue no burn to dvd option, surely saving it as avi/wmv and then working with that is a real bodge?

Second issue it thinks the footage is 4:# because its 720:576, its not, it really is 16:9 !

Camera outputs both 720:576 for 4:3 and 16:9, seems it sets something on the tape to tell the camcorder that it is, but moviemaker is not seeing the identifier

I tried seting moviemaker to widscreen, but the it just adds bars to my final created file, no use at all.

Any clues how to fix this, daughter is nagging for it to be finished


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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28 Aug 2010   #2

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 7601 Multiprocessor Free Service Pack 1
 
 

There is no quick fix in this. To start with it looks as if you are using PAL equipment when I think you are in an NTSC area. If your camcorder is recording to 720 x 576 pixels that is a standard definition size for PAL. The standard size for NTSC is 720 x 486 pixels. OK so neither size equates exactly to 4:3 or 16:9 but that's the way is has evolved and we are stuck with it. The same pixel size is used for both 4:3 and Widescreen 16:9. The software that controls the recording uses what is called "Unsquare Pixel Rendering" and that is what renders the aspect ratio.
As I say I think you are in an NTSC area although you don't state your country in your profile. The timezone does not necessarily reflect the TV area. If you record in PAL you will have trouble trying to play the resultant DVD in an NTSC area.
PLease post here the actual properties ofthe video clip in question. Confirm your area. State whether the clip was recorded at 4:3 or 16:9. You dont give details of your camcorder but check to see if you have the choice of aspect ratios.
Finally and this is the most important question. What media does your camcorder record to and how exactly do you import the clips from the camcorder to the PC. Is it by USB, Firewire ar do you record to a card or mini DVD. Please give as much detail as possible . Some may seem irrelevant but ot is all important
Look forward to helping you more on this!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 Aug 2010   #3
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

I had the same problem. My Kodak Zi8 records in .mov and I import the pictures directly from the SD card. But after I set the WLMM apspect ratio to 16:9 (in View) and saved in HD (1080p), the results do not show the black bars any more.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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28 Aug 2010   #4

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 7601 Multiprocessor Free Service Pack 1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
I had the same problem. My Kodak Zi8 records in .mov and I import the pictures directly from the SD card. But after I set the WLMM apspect ratio to 16:9 (in View) and saved in HD (1080p), the results do not show the black bars any more.
Yes but you were recording in HD which would likely be 1440 x 1080 pixels, so that is a whole new ball game as the saying goes. The standard size differences between PAL and NTSC do not apply. The HD sizes are the same whatever area you are in.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 Aug 2010   #5
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by mitchell65 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
I had the same problem. My Kodak Zi8 records in .mov and I import the pictures directly from the SD card. But after I set the WLMM apspect ratio to 16:9 (in View) and saved in HD (1080p), the results do not show the black bars any more.
Yes but you were recording in HD which would likely be 1440 x 1080 pixels, so that is a whole new ball game as the saying goes. The standard size differences between PAL and NTSC do not apply. The HD sizes are the same whatever area you are in.
OK, understand. I am not such an expert in the matter. I do the old trial and error approach until it works.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 Aug 2010   #6

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 7601 Multiprocessor Free Service Pack 1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by mitchell65 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
I had the same problem. My Kodak Zi8 records in .mov and I import the pictures directly from the SD card. But after I set the WLMM apspect ratio to 16:9 (in View) and saved in HD (1080p), the results do not show the black bars any more.
Yes but you were recording in HD which would likely be 1440 x 1080 pixels, so that is a whole new ball game as the saying goes. The standard size differences between PAL and NTSC do not apply. The HD sizes are the same whatever area you are in.
OK, understand. I am not such an expert in the matter. I do the old trial and error approach until it works.
Slightly off topic but did you know you can produce a High Def DVD from a standard disc that will play through a Blu-Ray player. You can produce a Blu-Ray type disc with standard equipment. You will need a Blu-Ray player though but a PS3 playstation makes an excellent BR player!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 Aug 2010   #7
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

Interesting - but I have no blu-ray equipment.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
29 Aug 2010   #8

win7
 
 

In the end I used Nero.....

I am recording PAL in a PAL area. (uk), I imported the video via firewire. camcorder is an original sony trv120e (e models lack some feature due to meddling and politics)

Had to install ten times the software needed because WLMM is missing one simple check box to allow manual selection of input ratio instead of it guessing from frame size. frame size should never be taken as an indication of ratio, thats just sloppy and useless if its a non standard frame size.

My camcorder records 4:3 as 720:576 AND widescreen 16:9 as 720:576, its an older model and it hails form the days of widescreen CRT, not pixel counting... you got widescreen by applying a lower voltage to the scart input socket and in return the TV just reduced the scanning voltage on the height coils...


While some may think its wrong to use same for both, there was no set in stone standard back then., and 720:576 is the most/onlything it can record, and you would not want to record in anything smaller if you could right?

Oh well, problem not fixed but disaster averted.....
My System SpecsSystem Spec
29 Aug 2010   #9

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 7601 Multiprocessor Free Service Pack 1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by flez View Post
In the end I used Nero.....

I am recording PAL in a PAL area. (uk), I imported the video via firewire. camcorder is an original sony trv120e (e models lack some feature due to meddling and politics)

Had to install ten times the software needed because WLMM is missing one simple check box to allow manual selection of input ratio instead of it guessing from frame size. frame size should never be taken as an indication of ratio, thats just sloppy and useless if its a non standard frame size.

My camcorder records 4:3 as 720:576 AND widescreen 16:9 as 720:576, its an older model and it hails form the days of widescreen CRT, not pixel counting... you got widescreen by applying a lower voltage to the scart input socket and in return the TV just reduced the scanning voltage on the height coils...


While some may think its wrong to use same for both, there was no set in stone standard back then., and 720:576 is the most/onlything it can record, and you would not want to record in anything smaller if you could right?

Oh well, problem not fixed but disaster averted.....
The problem with the black bars is, I would guess , a capture problem. WLMM is not the most reliable tool for capturing video. This is easily cured with the right software.
Re; The red highlight above. This is perfectly correct. The newest camcorder on the market records as above. This is the standard size for both 4:3 and widescreen in a PAL area. As I pointed out it is the "non-square " pixel rendering that makes the difference. When you say "not pixel counting" that is what 720 x 576 is, the size in pixels.
I really must repeat this even to the point of being boring. You have a very good camcorder and with a firewire connection there is no reason at all why you cannot produce perfectly acceptable finished DVD's in either 4:3 aspect or 16:9 widescreen. You can produce both from the same video clips providing you start by recording in 16:9 aspect. There will be no black borders.
I am willing to help you achieve this but I don't use WMM, it hasn't got he full facilities that I need particularly as far as a timeline feature is concerned. Would you be willing to invest in third party software?
The reason I assumed you were in an NTSC area was that your profile shows you as being in the USA timezone!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
30 Aug 2010   #10

win7
 
 

Ahh, ok, but still as you say the same pixel resolution can be used for both aspect ratios, so it would be common sense NOT to auto select aspect on that criteria alone.

When there's two possibility's, fine have auto selection, but provide a manual override, it makes sense...

Its just little issues like this that can totally spoil a users experience, I'm lucky enough to be able to go find some other software to import and fix it with, but a new user may not be and would then just spend a wasted evening being nothing more than frustrated.


Ill go fix my timezone...
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 WLMM and DVD and aspect ratio




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